What would you do?

[Taj79]

I believe every high school senior being recruited by a college believes himself to be "the next Jordan" or the "nest Elway" or even the "next ARod." Most high school kids are big fish in little ponds and it isn't until they get to that next level that they see the speed and talent pick up and make competition at that next level more difficult. Top 100 kids are probably different but I am willing to bet, without research, that a significant portion of "Top 100s" who get labeled "Can't Miss" actually do.

My inclination for myself would be to transfer. Lamar Odom did pretty well at URI. Hughes here. Morrison at Gonzaga. Heck, Bird at Indiana State. But that's me in the here and now. I always get a kick at watching the five white kids on the end of the Duke bench. What are they doing there? Will they ever play? In blowouts, sure. Which Duke has quite a number of I would guess. (Was just in Durham --- Duke cost upwards of $50K per year now!) But short of the experience, what are thoe guys doing there? Living the dream, man, living the dream.

Again without research but I wonder how many kids really do find the end of the rainbow on transferring. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any kid that left our program and became a star elsewhere. Ford at Missouri State and Edwin at Kent State and Winfield at Mizzou come to mind but I can't think of too many others. And those guys were okay, not stars. On the other end, we got Roder from Kansas State, Bryant from Villanova and Waldman from UNLV but I can't think of too many more. I don't count Johnson or Pederson too, too much.

[billiken_roy]

Roy, you have such a double standard. According to you, Stemmler should have stayed because he would be a star here yet nobody should ever transfer to a lower-tier school unless they get better academics.

The academics of IU and SLU are about equal as evidenced by the U.S. News ranking, which of course do factor in the student to teacher ratio, among other things.

Stop focusing on some small difference between SLU and IU and tell me why you continue to berate a kid that chose fewer minutes at a basketball powerhouse with similar academics, but don't think anybody else should transfer for more playing time unless they get better academics?

stemler would have been a star AND had better academics AND had better hometown job market at slu.

and for the record when i originally made my statements, it was never never said that a student shouldnt transfer for more playing time. the original question was asked, why would someone want to stay at slu and sit on the bench. i merely pointed out that possibly the ability to stay very close to home AND get a slu education might be more important.

i personally would take the academics if i realized that my future was not basketball.

and last i personally would not enjoy the big campus feel of iu at all. there is nothing appealing about that atmosphere or the big classrooms imo. if you think that is a great atmosphere so be it. personally, i liked that i knew all my teachers. that they knew me. that i could meet easily with any of them to discuss class, etc. to me that was invaluable in my college education. i am having a real hard time understanding the opposite being better. being anonomous is good? what? maybe if someone majoring in stalking and terrorism.

last stemler preferring to go to iu for the "legacy" feel is also a joke. he can forever remember he played for the biggest cheater in the land at the time that lied to him as to what his role would be and how his impact would be felt.

[davidnark]

stemler would have been a star AND had better academics AND had better hometown job market at slu.

I would guess that the job prospects in St. Louis of a business major from Indiana and SLU are comparable. Outside of St. Louis, there is no comparison. In Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincy, and other midwestern cities, IU business graduates are highly-sought after and IU's academic programs are very highly respected.

Indiana's academic programs are probably not better than SLU's, but they are generally preceived to be througout the midwest.

[Box and Won]

I would guess that the job prospects in St. Louis of a business major from Indiana and SLU are comparable. Outside of St. Louis, there is no comparison. In Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincy, and other midwestern cities, IU business graduates are highly-sought after and IU's academic programs are very highly respected.

Indiana's academic programs are probably not better than SLU's, but they are generally preceived to be througout the midwest.

I would think that IU basketball players are probably well taken care of by IU alums after graduation.

[Pistol]

Roy, the thing you're ignoring is that Stemler is not riding the end of the bench at IU- he is starting for them. His choice wasn't 'be a star at SLU or be a benchwarmer at IU,' it was 'start at SLU or start at IU.' He is a smaller fish in a bigger pond at IU, but still not lost in the shuffle by any means.

No one goes to IU for the Bloomington job market unless they want to stay in academia and teach. If Lance comes back to St. Louis after playing basketball at IU and earning a degree there, he will not have a problem finding a job, nor will he face longer odds than if he went to SLU. Employers here are not ignorant; they have access to the same rankings that all of us do, and IU is still ranked higher (75 to 82, remember?). It shouldn't make much of a difference one way or the other.

If he goes somewhere other than St. Louis, the IU degree is more widely recognized, especially if he is a business major. Their business school is ranked 18th for both MBA and undergrad by Business Week and 24th by US News. SLU is not in the top 50 on either. I can't look up what his major is- sports sites are blocked here- but I remember him looking at the business schools.

You keep saying that SLU is better academically- how? Just because of the student-teacher ratio? US News and all the other rankings don't think agree with you. There is more that goes into rating academics than that ratio. If it was just that, primarily small liberal arts schools would be the top ranked schools in the country.

There is more to a 'campus feel' than the size of classes. Have you been to the campus in Bloomington? It's a pretty cool place. I've been there about 6 times and never once set foot in a classroom. So what if he doesn't get to know his teachers by name? I never knew half my teachers at SLU in small classrooms, and I don't care. Every student is different.

I went to SLU and never applied to IU. SLU was better for me, which should be the most important factor for anyone- is the school the best fit for the student? If it wasn't the best fit for Lance, that's his choice. He also happened to choose a slightly higher ranked school than SLU. Your argument that SLU is better academically just seems to be based on your opinion and how it fit for you- you can't apply that to everyone.

As for his legacy being a joke because he plays for a cheater, would he have been more remembered here? I am not so sure about that. At this point, SLU has a smaller base of fans that follow the team closely and remember former players. Lance wasn't going to be a superstar anywhere and would have shared the spotlight here with Kevin and Tommie. At best, Lance would have been remembered in the Waldman-Clagget-Highmark kind of way with those two, and by a smaller fan base than what is at IU. My point was that I don't think his decision was based on what kind of legacy he'd have as an individual.

[billiken_roy]

pistol, i know this board has been through this before. but say erwin claggett and ryan robertson both walk into busch stadium and the john ulett introduces both as being in the crowd with a picture showing up on the big screen.

i am betting that claggett gets a much bigger ovation than robertson. st louis takes care of their own that stay and take care of st louis.

[Pistol]

pistol, i know this board has been through this before. but say erwin claggett and ryan robertson both walk into busch stadium and the john ulett introduces both as being in the crowd with a picture showing up on the big screen.

i am betting that claggett gets a much bigger ovation than robertson. st louis takes care of their own that stay and take care of st louis.

I would never argue that St. Louis takes care of its own and rewards loyalty. I just didn't agree with the other points of your argument. I wanted Lance to come here as much as anyone else (and I hate Sampson a lot), but it's hard to argue he made the wrong choice- he's playing for a true contender his senior season.

The other thing is that he's from a small town outside of St. Louis- I bet if he came back there, he's a celebrity regardless of where he played. Look at Hansbrough and Poplar Bluff. Lance is from the area, but enough outside to make the small town claim.

[billiken_roy]

I would never argue that St. Louis takes care of its own and rewards loyalty. I just didn't agree with the other points of your argument. I wanted Lance to come here as much as anyone else (and I hate Sampson a lot), but it's hard to argue he made the wrong choice- he's playing for a true contender his senior season.

The other thing is that he's from a small town outside of St. Louis- I bet if he came back there, he's a celebrity regardless of where he played. Look at Hansbrough and Poplar Bluff. Lance is from the area, but enough outside to make the small town claim.

a lot of his hometown hated his decision and were not happy with his choice and i hear "he shoulda" all the time from folks in monroe county, IL.

[kshoe]

I went to SLU and never applied to IU. SLU was better for me, which should be the most important factor for anyone- is the school the best fit for the student? If it wasn't the best fit for Lance, that's his choice. He also happened to choose a slightly higher ranked school than SLU. Your argument that SLU is better academically just seems to be based on your opinion and how it fit for you- you can't apply that to everyone.

I nearly went to IU. It ended up being my 2nd choice to SLU and if the scholly money had been equal I probably would have gone there as it definitely had a better and more nationally ranked business program. Although I'm very happy with the way my life has turned out I often wonder what my life would be like if I had chosen that other route. Anybody that bashes the academics of Indiana really doens't know what they are talking about...

[billiken_roy]

I nearly went to IU. It ended up being my 2nd choice to SLU and if the scholly money had been equal I probably would have gone there as it definitely had a better and more nationally ranked business program. Although I'm very happy with the way my life has turned out I often wonder what my life would be like if I had chosen that other route. Anybody that bashes the academics of Indiana really doens't know what they are talking about...

and you LEAPED to the word "bashes" for what reason? just because i feel slu academic situation is better overall than another school doesnt mean i am bashing the other. it means i dont think it is as good as slu which i think is superior. i fail to see that as a "bash".

now if you want me to bash anything about indiana, we can talk about cheating sampson. that is deserved bashing material.

[Box and Won]

I nearly went to IU. It ended up being my 2nd choice to SLU and if the scholly money had been equal I probably would have gone there as it definitely had a better and more nationally ranked business program. Although I'm very happy with the way my life has turned out I often wonder what my life would be like if I had chosen that other route. Anybody that bashes the academics of Indiana really doens't know what they are talking about...

That was my second choice as well. It's a great school.