Iggy Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Coach says that he will only be used in case of emergency. Ian will get the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted February 14, 2004 Author Share Posted February 14, 2004 I heard about Frericks on KMOX. There was no mention of A.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 he looked fine in the last game. frericks not playing is not good. however, if there is a conference center that ian matches up with better than others it is iti. i hope justin gets a chance to play. he matches up the best with the forwards physically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. Maybe Ian will emerge tomorrow with his extended minutes and JJ could as well. In baseball David Justice didn't do well until Dale Murphy left the team and Justice went on to be Rookie of the Year. I'm sure there are other examples but hey, I'm a Braves Fan. Won't you guys be so p.o.'d if J.D. Drew finally reaches his potential in that Braves Uniform? Sorry about that off topic but isn't it also ironic that your two huge Billiken Fans B'Roy and myself are both Braves fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Only got a shot with the cards when he did becaue Bobby Bonilla got injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 The pujols reference is not the same ... he wasn't even expected to make the team he was in AA the year before Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Ian wasn't expected to provide any serious minutes this year. It's not like there's a minor league for college basketball. It's the same thing, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 drew is going to emerge in atlanta. he was never going to do it in st louis though. he needed a kick in the pants to wake him up and i am hoping this is it. playing along side two pro's the level of the jones boys will help as well. people in st louis think edmunds is such a great player, i laugh at that. he has all the same mystery illnesses that drew has x2 and the "great" catches he makes in the outfield, andruw jones makes without falling down. chipper is just an on field stud and a champion. that said, i was told third hand by a san diego scout that wainwright is the real deal. he has the makings to make this trade look one sided for the cardinals. that is huge. there is a reason the cardinals are not dealing for a pitcher(s). it might be that they believe they have the components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 the difference is that puhols could hit like stan musial already regardless of bobby bonilla. ian cant beat my mother down the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Let's assume that Drew stays healthy, which is very suspect. I have little doubt that Drew will put up very big numbers. He has remarkable talent. However, that will only increase his price tag and marketability. There's just no way I invest that much money or years on a player who has not demonstrated ANY long-term durability. Roy, you make a good point with Edmonds regarding his durability. While he's also an extremely talented player, you just can't tie up your dollars to a player who's almost always nicked up. Though, I will give Edmonds the nod over Drew in that he's always willing to play hurt. In fact, I think the Braves will rue this deal because either Drew reinforces my perception that he's another Geronimo (sp?) Pena (Cards 2B in the 80s) or he'll have a breakout year and the suddenly fiscally tight Braves will see him leave via free agency. Thought it was a great move for the Cardinals. As for the Cardinals standing pat, I don't think it's because of Wainright. I think it's because they made a critically damaging move in signing Rolen to that huge contract. Rolen is being paid like premier player. Only problem is that he's only the third best position player on the Cardinals and the St. Louis market can only afford two or less premier position players on one team. La Russa's strategy of constructing talented, veteran lineups could work in New York or Boston, but I just don't see it being successful long-term in a mid-market unless you have ownership with bottomless resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Roy ... take those goggles off ... Andrew Jones is one of the most overated players in baseball. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 aj, great point on the rolen issue. however i love rolen. he is the walking example of what a pro athlete should be. head down, play hard, stay out of trouble off the field, etc. that is worth something. you are correct in saying though he is only the third best position player. but for the life of me why larussa uses renteria the way he does is proof larussa is not the end all of all managers. give renteria to whitey herzog and renteria is on his way to the hall of fame. instead we see edgar batting 6th and 7th? not stealing bases near as much as he could. crazy ignorance. and dont give me the "well edgar likes batting there" or "edgar doesnt want to be the leadoff man". b.s. that is the manager's job to convince him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 i would take jones in a second over edmunds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Hey I'm sorry that I started this discussion. However, Jones is not the most overrated player in baseball he is the Best Center Fielder in baseball and if he could cut down on his strike outs he would be so much better. Jones is more durable, a better defender and I think younger than Edmonds (I could be wrong on that point). Edmonds is a much better hitter though. All in all I would take Andruw but I'm a Braves fan so I am biased (very very biased). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 While he's the 3rd best (I would actually say 4th best) position player on the team, he's the Premier 3rd Basemen in the league, and the city of St. Louis loves him. I was there his first at-bat for the cardinals, and even though he was 0-for as a cardinal, we gave him an 8 minute standing ovation anyway. I think the biggest problem for the cardinals is the sudden need for every player to get big raises. First Pujols, now Morris is "looking out for the man." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Edmonds is way too streaky. Look at his pre-all star break numbers vs. his post-all star break numbers. He tailed off horribly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Would you rather have Rolen and see Renteria and Morris leave or deal Rolen and be able to keep your core of Pujols, Renteria and Morris back. I could see the Yankees being interested in Rolen, however I wonder if Rolen has a trade clause. I do agree that Rolen is a high character, quality citizen and might end up being a Hall of Famer. There haven't been that many star-quality 3B, so I wouldn't snicker at that. However, I would rather be strong up the middle than at 3B. The Cardinals should have never dealt Polanco for Rolen, though. They underestimated Polanco's intangibles and how much of an influence he was with the Latin players. I, for one, think that's one of the reasons Pujols is playing hard ball with the Cardinals. He's seen them show no loyalty to Polanco, Perez, Marrero and Cairo, who were all good friends with him. Plus, the Cardinals could have done so much more for the $90 million that they invested in Rolen to shore up their deficiencies in pitching and LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 ESPN is reporting that the rangers and yankees have agreed in principle to trade Alfonso Soriano and a Minor Leaguer for Alex Rodriguez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 4? surely you dont think edmunds is better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 Look at their offensive production last year. Rolen's production (OBP + SLG) = .910 Edmonds' production (OBP + SLG) = 1.002 Rolen's Career OPS+ (production over the league average) = +113 Edmonds' Career OPS+ (production over the league average) = +139 Gold Gloves since 1998 (year of rolen's first) = Rolen 5, Edmonds 5 Edmonds has finished in the top 5 of MVP balloting before (2000- 4th) Rolen has never finished in the top 10 The only real edge Rolen has is stolen bases, as he has 45 since 2000, and Edmonds has 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 just what has morris done lately? i do everything i can to keep puhols, renteria and rolen in that order. the rest are expendable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 For 1 year right now ... I take Edmonds ... If you are asking if I would trade Edmonds for Jones ... even up ... right now ... yes I would ... due to age and durability. You guys who think Jones is a better defensive centerfielder than Edmonds ... you have thick goggles on. Edmonds is the better defensive player ... not by far ...but his willingness to go all out for the ball ... the fact that he plays more shallow than Jones taking a way singles ... and gets a great jump on the ball going back ... he takes away more hits and homeruns than Jones ... I believe Gold gloves are also on the side of Edmonds. They both strike out too much ... and Jones is certainly much younger and more durable. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 gold gloves i believe are voted for by sportswriters that may never see either player in person. they vote off of the espn highlights they saw that year. like i said above, edmunds has no where the range that jones has. sure he is fun to watch and makes the big diving or leaping catch, but andruw will catch that same ball standing up or running rather than sprawled out on the ground. the result might be the same on the caught balls, but what about the one that edmunds misses on that spectacular dive? he is laying on the ground and the batter/runner is headed to at least second maybe third while edmunds teamate has to run over and cover his a$$. jones is fielding it on one bounce and holding the runner to a single. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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