moytoy12 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Charlotte falls in overtime to previously 1-3 Monmouth (now 2-3 thanks to UNC-C). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Charlotte is not a good team. Imagine if they had Micheal Beasley though? That kids like averaging 20 boards a game for K State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Charlotte falls in overtime to previously 1-3 Monmouth (now 2-3 thanks to UNC-C).It is not as bad as a loss as it appears. Monmouth has played one of the tougher schedules in the country. Monmouth previous victory came against Wichita State. Monmouth losses have come at the hands of Seton Hall, Notre Dame, and Colgate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 The next two nights are big for the A-10. We have seven winnable games, including two wins that would appear to help the RPI the whole year (SLU @ MSU, URI @ BC). Lets hope we keep up our part of the bargin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postcard Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 It is not as bad as a loss as it appears. Monmouth has played one of the tougher schedules in the country. Monmouth previous victory came against Wichita State. Monmouth losses have come at the hands of Seton Hall, Notre Dame, and Colgate. Colgate is a good loss. Now if they would have lost to Crest or Aqua Gel that would have been bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Colgate is a good loss. Now if they would have lost to Crest or Aqua Gel that would have been bad.Colgate is 4-0 right now and will be one of the top teams in the Patriot League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postcard Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Colgate is 4-0 right now and will be one of the top teams in the Patriot League. Colgate was predicted to finish 3rd in the Patriot League. THE PATRIOT LEAGUE!!!! You've got to be kidding me. What qualifies as a bad loss in your book? Seton Hall was picked 11th in the Big East. The only quality team that powerhouse Monmouth played was ND. I don't think on selection Sunday the committee will be saying, "well they had quality losses to Colgate and Monmouth." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Colgate was predicted to finish 3rd in the Patriot League. THE PATRIOT LEAGUE!!!! You've got to be kidding me. What qualifies as a bad loss in your book? Seton Hall was picked 11th in the Big East. The only quality team that powerhouse Monmouth played was ND. I don't think on selection Sunday the committee will be saying, "well they had quality losses to Colgate and Monmouth."First off I never said it was a good loss, I said it wasn't as bad as it looks on the surface. I never said Monmouth is a powerhouse. Second, Seton Hall would be a NCAA tounament team in just about any conference outside the loaded 16 team Big East. I still think they will be on the bubble and finish about 6th-9th in the Big East. They would finish no worse than third in the Big 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postcard Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 First off I never said it was a good loss, I said it wasn't as bad as it looks on the surface. I never said Monmouth is a powerhouse. Second, Seton Hall would be a NCAA tounament team in just about any conference outside the loaded 16 team Big East. I still think they will be on the bubble and finish about 6th-9th in the Big East. They would finish no worse than third in the Big 12. It is not as bad as a loss as it appears. Monmouth has played one of the tougher schedules in the country. Monmouth previous victory came against Wichita State. Monmouth losses have come at the hands of Seton Hall, Notre Dame, and Colgate. It is as bad as it looks. Monmouth was picked to finish 11th in the the 12 team Northeast Conference. Seton Hall needed overtime to beat both Monmouth and Robert Morris. They have no experienced big men at all. They'd be lucky to finish middle of the pack in the Big 12 or any other big conference. Bottom line is Charlotte shouldn't be losing to teams like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 It is as bad as it looks. Monmouth was picked to finish 11th in the the 12 team Northeast Conference. Seton Hall needed overtime to beat both Monmouth and Robert Morris. They have no experienced big men at all. They'd be lucky to finish middle of the pack in the Big 12 or any other big conference. Bottom line is Charlotte shouldn't be losing to teams like that.Did I ever say it was a good loss? I said it wasn't as bad as it looks. It is not my fault that you don't know basketball. I am sure you think that Mizzou and its no inside presence team would finish ahead of Seton Hall. They wouldn't. Most Big East teams would finish in the top half of the Big 12. The Big 12 is just not that good of a conference this year. It wasn't very good last year either. The Big East and the Pac-10 are the two best conferences in basketball right now and it isn't even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postcard Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Did I ever say it was a good loss? I said it wasn't as bad as it looks. It is not my fault that you don't know basketball. I am sure you think that Mizzou and its no inside presence team would finish ahead of Seton Hall. They wouldn't. Most Big East teams would finish in the top half of the Big 12. The Big 12 is just not that good of a conference this year. It wasn't very good last year either. The Big East and the Pac-10 are the two best conferences in basketball right now and it isn't even close. You're totally changing the parameters of the conversation now. You said it wasn't as bad as it looks. I say it is and I told you why. I could care less about Seton Hall and where they'll finish in any conference. According to your logic, they'd probably have a hard time finishing in the top half of that punishing Northeast conference with the likes of Monmouth around. You're the one who doesn't know basketball. You can't differentiate between a good loss and a bad loss. You were the one on here the other day trying to defend the early season RPI of the A10. We all want them to do well but some of us are logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Colgate was predicted to finish 3rd in the Patriot League. THE PATRIOT LEAGUE!!!! You've got to be kidding me. What qualifies as a bad loss in your book? Seton Hall was picked 11th in the Big East. The only quality team that powerhouse Monmouth played was ND. I don't think on selection Sunday the committee will be saying, "well they had quality losses to Colgate and Monmouth." and charlotte will probably finish 11th or 12th in the a-10. not sure what your problem is. if it was rhode island or dayton losing to those teams fire away. but you got one of the 4 or 5 worst teams in the conference losing a game. get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Charlotte falls in overtime to previously 1-3 Monmouth (now 2-3 thanks to UNC-C). I just hope that this year our coach doesn't spend a fair amount of his call-in show every week talking about how tough it is to win in the A-10 and how the rankings don't reflect the difficulty of the league. If this was truly a good league, the type of league that hopes to finish as the best non BCS conference, teams like Charlotte wouldn't lose to teams like Monmouth. look through the conference wins to date (nothing special) and losses to date (some pretty ugly names if you ask me) and I don't understand how anybody can say this has been a good year so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postcard Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 and charlotte will probably finish 11th or 12th in the a-10. not sure what your problem is. if it was rhode island or dayton losing to those teams fire away. but you got one of the 4 or 5 worst teams in the conference losing a game. get over it. Charlotte was picked to finish two spots behind the Bills. My whole point was that Charlotte losing to Monmouth is a bad loss. BrianSTl and you apparently don't think it is. Teams in the A10, no matter where they're picked to finish, should not be losing to Northeaster conference squads. How low are your expectations for SLU and the A10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postcard Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I just hope that this year our coach doesn't spend a fair amount of his call-in show every week talking about how tough it is to win in the A-10 and how the rankings don't reflect the difficulty of the league. If this was truly a good league, the type of league that hopes to finish as the best non BCS conference, teams like Charlotte wouldn't lose to teams like Monmouth. look through the conference wins to date (nothing special) and losses to date (some pretty ugly names if you ask me) and I don't understand how anybody can say this has been a good year so far. Thank god a voice of reason! At least someone on this board isnt' a Bruno shill and can objectively call it like he sees it. The A10 has been bad this year and hopefully we can make up some ground in the next 6 weeks of non conference play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Charlotte was picked to finish two spots behind the Bills. My whole point was that Charlotte losing to Monmouth is a bad loss. BrianSTl and you apparently don't think it is. Teams in the A10, no matter where they're picked to finish, should not be losing to Northeaster conference squads. How low are your expectations for SLU and the A10? postcard to a person, almost all of the diehards of this board will tell you that one of the biggest problems with the a-10 is that the bottom teams typically fall far behind the rest of the conference and those 250+ rpi's kill the rest of the league. every league has one or two, but not 3-4 like the a-14 seems to always have. not sure who's "picks" you read, but i think slu is a top 4-6 team in the conference. i dont see charlotte beating anyone but lasalle, richmond and st bonaventure. they will not be within two spots in the standings of the billikens. are you really a billiken fan? your debates you bring lead me to believe otherwise. back to the discussion, my expectations of the a-10 have always been tempered because of those bottom feeders. charlotte shouldnt be down there but they are. lutz has seemed to lose his zeal for the job and probably should have been shown the door. hopefully he can recover that enthusiasm for his job and bring the niners back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Thank god a voice of reason! At least someone on this board isnt' a Bruno shill and can objectively call it like he sees it. The A10 has been bad this year and hopefully we can make up some ground in the next 6 weeks of non conference play. people on this board are bruno shill's? are you serious? that said, your voice of reason, kshoe, is indeed the biggest champion of the mvc on the board. so his views carry little weight on this particular subject imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 people on this board are bruno shill's? are you serious? that said, your voice of reason, kshoe, is indeed the biggest champion of the mvc on the board. so his views carry little weight on this particular subject imo. The funny thing about my MVC view was I was 100% behind the A-10 move at the time but for 3 years I've watched in November and December as A-10 teams consistently lose to the Monmouths of the world while the MVC pulls off victories over teams like Wisconsin, LSU, etc. I suppose if I was more ignorant of these results I could continue to pump up the A-10 and talk about how great it has been. Maybe I really should be making the case that losing to Monmouth isn't that bad, or when Temple blows a 25 point halftime lead to College of Charleston its nothing to worry about. All that being said, anybody that really believes I want the A-10 to fail is just an idiot. I would love for the A-10 to go undefeated every day in non-conference play and believe me I have and do sing its praises on those rare good days. I'm just not an apologist that can't call a spade a spade. This really isn't a MVC debate, its a simple acknowledgement that thus far all the predictions of greatness for the A-10 this year and 3 NCAA bids have been way off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 The funny thing about my MVC view was I was 100% behind the A-10 move at the time but for 3 years I've watched in November and December as A-10 teams consistently lose to the Monmouths of the world while the MVC pulls off victories over teams like Wisconsin, LSU, etc. I suppose if I was more ignorant of these results I could continue to pump up the A-10 and talk about how great it has been. Maybe I really should be making the case that losing to Monmouth isn't that bad, or when Temple blows a 25 point halftime lead to College of Charleston its nothing to worry about. All that being said, anybody that really believes I want the A-10 to fail is just an idiot. I would love for the A-10 to go undefeated every day in non-conference play and believe me I have and do sing its praises on those rare good days. I'm just not an apologist that can't call a spade a spade. This really isn't a MVC debate, its a simple acknowledgement that thus far all the predictions of greatness for the A-10 this year and 3 NCAA bids have been way off. Kshoe is right, it's not about the MVC. It's about the bad losses that keep piling up in the A10 in what was suppossed to be a year where the A10 was trending up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 i'm not agreeing they are all BAD losses. they are definitely missed opportunities to break out, but losing to the pitt's, and syracuses of the world arent bad losses. it just means as kshoe correctly stated, multiple at large bids arent looking good and instead of getting back to being that 7th conference we are likely going to fight for the 10th conference or thereabouts again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postcard Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 postcard to a person, almost all of the diehards of this board will tell you that one of the biggest problems with the a-10 is that the bottom teams typically fall far behind the rest of the conference and those 250+ rpi's kill the rest of the league. every league has one or two, but not 3-4 like the a-14 seems to always have. not sure who's "picks" you read, but i think slu is a top 4-6 team in the conference. i dont see charlotte beating anyone but lasalle, richmond and st bonaventure. they will not be within two spots in the standings of the billikens. are you really a billiken fan? your debates you bring lead me to believe otherwise. back to the discussion, my expectations of the a-10 have always been tempered because of those bottom feeders. charlotte shouldnt be down there but they are. lutz has seemed to lose his zeal for the job and probably should have been shown the door. hopefully he can recover that enthusiasm for his job and bring the niners back. Roy, I'm not sure what I said that warranted your questioning my Billiken fandom. I'm upset that the league is off to a poor start. The better the league is, the better off the Bills will be. I disagreed with Brian that certain conference losses were not "bad" losses or "not as bad as they seem." I dont' get what your expectations are. Mine are apparently higher. I understand every conference will have a few dogs(I think SLU is a 4-6 but we can disagree on where Charlotte will end up) but in a conference like the A10 I think our weak teams should beat the weak teams of bad conferences. I mean, come on, we're talking about a team from the Northeastern conference. How far down the ladder are they? I'm frustrated that the league has had some bad losses this year and it seems like some people, particuallarily BrianSTL is going out of his way to defend the conference. He tried to make the case the other day that they were the 3rd rank RPI conference because that was what some computer said. Shouldn't we exoect more. Shouldn't we call a spade a spade? We can't have it both ways. We can't lose to these teams now and then come tourney time wonder why were only a one(or two) bid league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF1 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 If you really don't like the league as much of you profess, petition your school to leave. Speaking as a fan of an A-10 program back east, I would rather SLU just leave instead of constantly hearing about how bad the league is from SLU fans and its coach. It is not as if SLU has been a great boon to the league to date and your school is a great distance from most members. I don't think it will be missed by many. Good bye and good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 This really isn't a MVC debate, its a simple acknowledgement that thus far all the predictions of greatness for the A-10 this year and 3 NCAA bids have been way off. During the pre-season prediction contest I almost made a post about the implicit A-10 assumptions in peoples picks, that is, people were picking SLU into the NCAA tournament as an at large with 10-11 losses. That would be nearly impossible unless the A-10 had an over .650 win percentage (and our non-conf foes had unexpectedly good seasons, etc.) because any team with that many losses needs a very difficult strength of schedule. I was a lot more skeptical about SLU's SOS this year although it is looking to be a little better than I thought non-conference Many A-10 fans on the A-10 board were predicting a resurgence and some were talking about at least 2 at large bids (as Kshoe mentions). This is, of course, still very possible but will be the result of separation between those 3-4 teams than the result of conference wide strength. Right now the A-10 has a .640 win percentage but has played (so far) an easier schedule than usual. This is sort of fascinating in that A-10 people issued directives to get the conference win percentage up and asked many of the likely bottom teams to play easier schedules. This has not really worked out exactly as planned. Sure the A-10 has got (so far) a higher win percentage but at the cost of a much lower conference SOS. It is possible that the increase in win percentage is wholely offset by weaker SOS RPIwise (but it is more likely to help). It is just it will only help a little bit because not enough teams are winning the easy games. Anyway, kshoe is right that so far the A-10 is not as good as was predicted by its optimistic adherents (and implicitly by almost half the people on this board) but at the same time is probably doing a bit better than the last two years. So there has been some improvement but it has been small. Again this will all change as many more games are played but right now I would not make any absolute statement that this has been a disappointing year yet. But, once again, the amount of at large bids will depend much more how many teams separate themselves at the top of the conference. Right now it seems like there is still mostly parity 1-10 so that would have to change in order for there to be a lot of at large bids to fight for. Also, you need top 50 non-conf wins to polish up the tournament profiles and there appears to be all losses to potential top 50 teams so far--that is probably the worst news so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I just hope that this year our coach doesn't spend a fair amount of his call-in show every week talking about how tough it is to win in the A-10 and how the rankings don't reflect the difficulty of the league. If this was truly a good league, the type of league that hopes to finish as the best non BCS conference, teams like Charlotte wouldn't lose to teams like Monmouth. look through the conference wins to date (nothing special) and losses to date (some pretty ugly names if you ask me) and I don't understand how anybody can say this has been a good year so far. I agree. We haven't had any marquee wins. Losses to Miami-Ohio or Monmouth aren't acceptable for a conference looking for respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 All you guys bitching about Monmouth do realize they beat SIUC two years ago and made the NCAA tournament. They have made the tournament twice since 2004. Just because you have never heard of them doesn't mean they suck. It means that you just don't follow college basketball enough to realize who they are. Teams like Monmouth often beat preceived better teams on neutral courts and people act shocked. Those are the only times these type of teams don't have to play good teams on the road. Teams like Momouth end up playing only 10-12 home games a year most of the time and those are mostly league games. Their records take a beating outside of league play because they are playing at everyone else's home court. A lot of these teams are much better than people realize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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