smitty Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Just curious what everyone thinks about Brad's first half 2-foul rule. IMO, it may have cost us 2 games this season. Without a doubt it contributed to the loss of the SMS game when Reggie sat out the last 18 minutes of the first half. We needed Reggie in the game for scoring and IMO it was low risk as Reggie isn't very foul prone. In the Charlotte game, once Freriks and Isik left the game and we left it up to Varner and Ian, we were done. I don't fault Brad as much for this game as they both ended up with 4 fouls and are more foul prone than Reggie. What does everyone think of this rule? Offical Billikens.com sponsor of Orlando Stewart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 IMO, Brad needs to be a little more flexible on this rule. We had a big lead at Charlotte, and in that case, go ahead and take them out. But once he saw our lead getting smaller and smaller, I really think he needed to take a chance and get them into the game. It was obvious that those two were having good games (especially Izik), and taking them out not only cost us points, but it "cooled" off the players. Obvioiusly, I'm not a coach nor do I have a vast knowledge of basketball strategy, but I really think if they had not sat, we could have won that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 i think you mislabel the rule by calling it "brad's rule". you will be hard pressed to find any d-1 coach that doesnt adhere to that rule, so i think it is wrong to call it "brad's rule". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 i have not heard brad comment on it, but i have heard other coaches from high school to college sing in harmony about it. the thinking is it will hurt you possibly two ways. the obvious one is getting the 3rd foul early. the other is that there is a belief that the player that stays in will be less agressive and then becomes a liability on the floor. with the second thought in mind, and knowing the way brad wants the billikens to play defense, there shouldnt even be a second thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitty Posted January 30, 2004 Author Share Posted January 30, 2004 While I agree that at least 50% of D-1 coached probably adhere to this rule, I think an exception should have been made in the SMS game especially. Reggie is really our only player that can truly create offensively. Even if he is off, he opens up good shots for others. When he is out of the game it is a real loss. Brad should have rolled the dice in that game especially IMO. I love Brad and his coaching ability, but I think he needs to be a little more flexible with that rule. That SMS game is going to really cost us if we are on the bubble. SMS lost to a horrendus Evansville team the other night. Offical Billikens.com sponsor of Orlando Stewart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 When I have seen other coaches playing players with 2 fouls, they usually change up the defense. More zone so the other team will have a harder time forcing that player into a 3rd foul. Since we play mostly an agressive/tough man to man defense, I doubt Brad would want to go to long stretches in a game playing zone. I wasn't able to hear the first half of the Charlotte game, but I was suprised that with our bigs in foul trouble that JJ didn't see some time. I like the way the team has been playing with the short bench, but when in foul trouble I think this might handicap us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I asked Brad about this at the last Billiken Club meeting. He was pretty adament about sitting players with 2 fouls. He said games are won or lost in the 2 half and wanted his players to play hard without worring about fouls. That said he said he second guessed himself for not bringing Reggie back in the SMS game. For what its worth I agree with you. I'll go back to Al McGuire sayin you get to play untill you pick up your third. McGuire also said that once you picked up your 4th it was too late to sit. Just keep playing. I've just shown my age by bringing up Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I was going to contribute a similar comment until I read your response, StLouBlue. I don't have a problem with Brad's sitting Tom and Izik with two fouls in the first half, but I think he should have inserted Justin. I know JJ is not part of the normal rotation, but foul problems should bring him out of the norm. Johnson may have provided a boost that other players couldn't. It might have maintained the momentum and enabled the Bills to win the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 >I was going to contribute a similar comment until I read >your response, StLouBlue. > >I don't have a problem with Brad's sitting Tom and Izik with >two fouls in the first half, but I think he should have >inserted Justin. I know JJ is not part of the normal >rotation, but foul problems should bring him out of the >norm. Johnson may have provided a boost that other players >couldn't. It might have maintained the momentum and enabled >the Bills to win the game. When foul trouble forces us into a heavy dose of the 3 guard offense sans Tom Frericks, our offense really struggles. We become a perimeter jump shooting team with Reggie as the only guard suited for that sort of game. Drejaj's woes with his outside shot really hurt in these situations as the opposing team typically elects to give him open looks while closely guarding Reggie and Fish. Having another guy on the floor who can score like JJ can only help ... but I personally think Brad has not put JJ into a position to be a contributor now. Early in the season, he was getting 8 minutes or so per game and we all agree he looked good when we saw him on the floor at that time. Now he goes several games without getting in at all and then makes a brief appearance for a few minutes before being banished to the bench for several more games. You can't expect a player to develop and contribute under those circumstances. Hopefully JJ's time shall come next year as Brad has written him off for the 2003-2004 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 more like 99% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 i miss al. man he could bring us some stuff. my favorite that i always think of while viewing any game now is that most games are decided in the first 5 minutes of the second half. i cant tell you how many times i have seen that one come true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickdraw Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 >In the Charlotte game, once Freriks and Isik left the game >and we left it up to Varner and Ian, we were done. No one would argue the fact that it changed the complexion of the game for the worse. But seeing how we were down by 2 points at about the 2:00 mark of regulation, we were hardly "done." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 I disagree that 99% of the coaches sit a player the rest of the first half regardless of who the player is or game situation. I think 99% would like to but more than half will make adjustments according to the player and the situation in the game. In Charlotte, I would have put Izik back in ... with instructions for him to back up a step on D. His long arms would probably allow this and the space would have prevented his man from taking him to the hole. If his man hits a couple of 3's than maybe I sit him ... but I give him the chance. Tom sits unless they start to pull away in the 1st half. At SMS ... Reggie plays with specific instructuctions to be very carefull ... no chances. Either way ... You have to take a coach as a whole ... and I support Brad 120%. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trich Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 That is an interesting remark about McGuire's practice of substitutions related to the foul situation. He was the first coach that I noticed who sat a player with two fouls in the first half. Before then, coaches normally did not sit players until they had three fouls. Regarding a hard and fast rule, it would seem to me the situation, position and player dictates the practice. For somebody like Frericks, it would seem you better sit him. For an outside player who does not become in the inside mix, he could play with two fouls in the first half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 I didn't get a chance to follow the Charlotte game, but Tom's presence in the games was a key to our 7/8 streak. We need for him to stay out of foul trouble in the next two road games to have a better chance for the wins. We are a far better team with him in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 I don't like it. To me, the mathematics are simple - if you let the guy play until his 5th foul, you get the most minutes. Do your best; then, if you foul out, that's why we have subs. It might make sense to pull a guy for a minute and do some coaching, if possible, on how to avoid the next foul. But put him back in asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooch1918 Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Spoon took some heat for this in Larry Hughes' glorious season...his reasoning, in a quote I can almost recite verbatim "if you have three fouls to start the second half, I'd like to coach against you" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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