courtside Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 > You know what's tiring, there being no middle ground. >Either you think Brad is the world's worst recruiter bar >none or you are a kool-aid drinker. To deny that SLU has >some limitations is silly (especially before the arena, >which btw has only been a done deal for 7-8 months) and to >deny that it can be done and Brad needs to do better is >silly also. Why does anything someone says that does not >include fire Brad today in the headline have to been taken >to the extreme. I don't know why, but of late you seem to be >heading the charge courtside. Maybe you've let some of your >arguments with people on this board obstruct your being >rational. Which imo you generally were. > > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H >Waldman > >Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would >have helped club. Skip, part of being part of the solution is recognizing a problem, recognizing where you are right now. Many people on here have posted repeatedly that SLU's season was considered a success, referencing the 19 win total, etc...when by all accounts, the season was a failure. It wasn't progress. I have no problem not dwelling on it as long as most of the board can agree with that. I have no problem once every blue moon saying some schools have it easier in academics than SLU, but obviously many other places compete just fine with academic standards. I read on this board literally daily references to SLU's disadvantages in academics. And many have blown it way out of proportion. I don't begin any Brad threads, none. I don't respond to many of them either. I do however think it is fair to discuss the state of the program within a few weeks of the season's completion(didn't do it during the season) and evaluate the 5 yrs of Brad as head coach. This can and should be done regardless of his current job status. If people can agree that Brad is not a coach who can do more with less...he needs help in a lot of on and off the floor areas, fine. And that there are some who can out there. I am not a zealot with unrealistic expectations. Most of my points center around the same theme of "I can".....as opposed to making excuses all the time. Surrounding him with other things is the only way things will get better, because again he cannot do more with less. If people can understand that some hires work out and others don't for different reasons, fine. There isn't just one way to win nor build a team. SLU is irrelevant in the community, mediocre on the floor, and there are large concerns of the future direction of the program. People are worried about opening a new Arena...I am not. If the atmosphere and product are attractive people will go. Obviously die hards and long timers will go regardless. The Arena will be there a long time. If Mizzou starts winning, people will start going to their new Arena too. Doesn't matter if it is first year or 3rd year etc...Keeping Brad because people think he deserves to be kept is fine. Keeping him to open a new Arena is absurd. If SLU is a mess the first year or two of the Arena...people down the road aren't going to say, well the team is very good now, but you know what when it opened they were a mess, not gonna go. I am well aware that recruiting rankings mean little. Getting in early and identifying talent and closing for that talent and coaching that talent is important. Evaluating kids that are under the radar will be important at SLU going forward. Identifying is tough, some can and some can't, and so is closing, some can and some can't. It is perfectly satisfactory to hold the opinion that Brad is or isn't the answer and say why. I mostly point out the "I can" ....as in other places have succeeded in non-BCS conferences, without the tv deals, without the facilities, with challenging academics....and so on....and the total has been enough where it is rather difficult to accept these "excuses." I certainly don't have unrealistic expectations. I don't expect annual NCAA's any time in SLU's near future. But if people want to say everyday that acadmeics is the reason or a big reaons ....then I will suggest D-3 ball. if that is what the people here think and want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 >You been on this rant for a few days now, so who said? > >Who said we shouldn't be what XU, G-town, Gonzaga, >Marquette, or Butler are? > >You keep on coming on here acting like you have these higher >standards than everyone else and you flat out don't. We >might disagree about the best way to quickly reach those >standards, but we all have the same expectations. Don't go >acting like we don't. Read the threads Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Wrong, Brian. Most people on here do not agree with what the main problems are. There's one group that places the blame squarely on one person, Brad Soderberg. Then there's the UB proponents who say he can't get it done because Biondi's tying his hands, the coeds are prettier at Iowa, other schools cheat, you have to be Einstein to get in, he can't buy a recuit an ice cream cone, West Pine is literally falling down around him, St. Louis has bad weather, it goes on and on. And, of course, until all the above is rectified there is no sense in hiring someone new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I don't think you can find many schools in similar situations who have become a top 50 type team or even had sustained NCAA appearances. Certainly you can find a few, but I question "many". Can it be done Yes, as proven by a few, many here though seem to think it is easy. For every coach that takes a team like ours and has sustained success there are probably at least 20 that don't. And by like ours I mean 1. Poor facilities 2. Poor TV 3. Harder than average academics. With that said, the facilities have changed, that should no longer be an argument for any player we are recruiting now. Chery'l promises better TV, probably not great but better. The bar for Brad has been raised and it's time for Brad to step up. Imo he deserves this year. As I have said, I'm not a fan of ultimatum's ie ... tourney or your gone, but if we have another disapointing year ... My stab at you was you usually present good arguments, I don't always agree, but that's fine ... it seems that lately you have begun just looking for opportunities to make jabs at Brad, which it seems are really just jabs at the guys you are arguing with Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 That is what I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Most of the ABC crowd will admit that there are other problems with the program besides Brad. They just think Brad needs to go first. Courtside falls into this category himself. He has stated multiple times that you get a winning coach here first and then that will encourage the other changes to be made. There is another group that thinks that while there are some big problems with the program it doesn't make Brad imune from taking blame for the problems that he has caused for himself with his team. These tend to be people who think that Brad needs to get his act together now. These next two signing periods and next season will determine where Brad sits in their minds. There is a third group out there that believes all of Brad's problems are a direct result of the infastructure of the program. They don't think Brad is to blame for any of the problems and don't think any pressure should be on Brad. Most people I believe belong to the second group. The next biggest group I would say is the first group. The third group is tiny. I think I belong to the second group. You 72 might be the only person believes that Brad is the only problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Only two posters on here said the season was a success. So there you go again making something up. Many posters repeatedly made this statement. Really, who were they? And don't tell me to read the post. You are the one stating it as fact, so prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 dont read my posts. all i do is discuss billikens basketball. no one is stopping anyone from joining the debate at the same level of passion and quanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 slu72 said, "Broy, where does Fordham rate on the all important budget list?" slu72, everything i have written on the subject is about creating a program that will sustain success long term. i.e. become a gonzaga or an siu. i am not interested in spoon success where we go to the tourney and then have three seasons at 500 or below and then get lucky on larry hughes and go for a season and then under 500 again, etc. fordham got one good recruit. for all we know he wants to be a doctor and forham has a great pre med major. or maybe he has a sick mother in the bronx and he wants to stay close to her. maybe fordham's coach did a great job overcoming the obstacles and actually won out on him. regardless, one player isnt going to put fordham in the position they are top 25 for the next 6 years. btw, the overall fordham budget is much higher ranked than ours at 126 (slu is 186) and the basketball budget is slightly lower at 108 (slu is 89). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthelou Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 But it's just my observation that part of the problem the moderator is referring to is caused by other posters who seem obsessed with what you think about every little thing and argue with you to try to convince you of their view or that your view is wrong and it causes bad blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 then why did you repeat it? Everybody here wishes SLU was as successful as XU and agrees that it can be done. What's your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 it's just that a handful of people on here are so caught up in trying to be right that they've twisted things around to the point that they'd rahter see SLU do poorly. Let's hope Brad improves next season, or he really will be on the hot seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 when you post 20,000 times you tend to get in the middle of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 > >If people can agree that Brad is not a coach who can do more >with less...he needs help in a lot of on and off the floor >areas, fine. And that there are some who can out there. I >am not a zealot with unrealistic expectations. So basically if people agree with you then that is ok? If not ? Surrounding him >with other things is the only way things will get better, >because again he cannot do more with less. I If people can understand that some hires work out and others >don't for different reasons, fine. There isn't just one way >to win nor build a team. Sports, business, coaching are all dynamic tasks. No one starts out with experience, and as they gain experience they change. I think Soderberg has been changing his methods to a degree the last couple of years. I do not agree that Brad cannot due more with less, I think he did his first two years not to the level that we would like, but better than expected. True he did not do more with less last year, however was he really that far off? I for one do not think so. > >SLU is irrelevant in the community, mediocre on the floor, >and there are large concerns of the future direction of the >program. But if people want to say everyday that acadmeics is the >reason or a big reaons ....then I will suggest D-3 ball. if >that is what the people here think and want. Boy sounds so much like a bad columnist in this town. Same belittling tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 No I do not think that is possible. just look at many of the posts in this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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