Recruiting

[El Cerdo]

I was just reading the A-10 board. WH (a respected A-10 guru) is wondering if Soderbeg is the worst recruiter in the A-10 or of any Top-100 school (for that matter).

Interesting opinion from a non-biased source.

[jimbofive]

links would be appreciated...

not the easiest to search pages for "wh" that just raises more questions...

[SLUDrew]

He posted this in a thread which was reviewing WH's pre-season picks. For those who don't know, he does a detailed review of each team before the season starts. He picked SLU to finish second behind Xavier.

"On St. Louis, I did say in my preview that the Bills had to stay healthy because depth was a big concern. I also noted that the power forward slot was weak and that backup guards Brown and Polk were inconsistent.

Sure enough, Kevin Lisch was injured much of the year, especially in conference play, and that killed the Bills.

What none of knew, as B-Roy points out, was that Ian Vouyoukas would turn out to be the biggest disappointment in the league. He did not seem to be in tiptop shape or play with the controlled aggressiveness he displayed last year. Unless you saw a lot of IV last year, most A-10 fans probably are not aware of just how good he was. (St. Joe's fans excluded. He did not play well vs the Hawks in both games last season).

What's particularly irksome about St. Louis is that the Bills were well positioned for an at-large bid entering league play. Had they gone 12-4 in A-10 play, St. Lo might be a lock for the NCAA tourney. Even 11-5 would have put them on the cusp.

Just wondering: Is Brad Soderberg the worst recruiter in the A-10? At any top 100 RPI school?"

[jimbofive]

Ahhh, thank you... seems like a pretty fair assessment of our team.

We'll see what happens with our recruiting for next year - I'd envision Mitchell and Relphorde getting substantially more minutes than Maguire did this year just because they're not one-trick ponies as Dustin seems to be.

I'm hoping for this PT breakdown (this is praying for a few more blowouts so our starting 5 aren't gassed at the end of every game):

Lisch: 33 mins

Liddell: 33 mins

Meyer: 26 mins

Polk: 26 mins

Juco PF: 15 mins

Brown: 15 mins

Husak: 12 mins

Knollmeyer: 10 mins

Relphorde: 8 mins

Mitchell: 8 mins

HS PG: 7 mins

Maguire: 7 mins

Actually that breakdown was real hard to come up w/... I have a tough time undercutting upperclassmen and last years' class with the new guys, esp. given Soderberg's tendency to sit freshmen and the unfamiliarity with the new commits, but it sounds like Relphorde and Mitchell's toughness and versatility are gonna win out if Knollmeyer and Maguire don't show something over the summer.

Thoughts?

I want to see Maguire's shot fall ONCE before I give him anything.

[davidnark]

12 deep? 8 or 9 is more resonable.

[slu72]

Can you give us a link to JUCO PF, first I heard of him. How do you pronounce his last name....Pif or Phh?

[NashvilleBilliken]

No way that happens. Brad doesn't use a lineup that big...but hopefully it will be expanded. It depends on our recruits, but I'd hope we have a solid 9 man rotation.

[jimbofive]

Oh wow, I really went that deep??? Wasn't paying attention, LOL

I'd almost have to sit Maguire and a new PG if one's in the works then, I mean these new guys are built to come in and play right away.

Minutes towards the bottom are off, but that's probably how I'd rank guys in terms of what they can bring to the table in a game of any possible matchups.

[Westy03]

So he picked SLU to finish second then after the season basically calls him one of the worst recruiters in the top 100. That just doesnt make much sense. What does that say about the A10?

[SLUDrew]

Calling him the worst recruiter in the top 100 programs is really hard to say.

I think it is fair to say he is the worst recruiter in the A-10. I say this taking into account all that SLU has going for it vs. some of our A-10 brethren. Yes, I realize West Pine is a hindrance, BUT we do play in a 21 or 22k facility in a city with a metro area of about 3 million and are the only D-1 show within 100 miles of

campus.

Many of the other schools in the A-10 are in VERY close proximity with each other and other major programs, hence experience very intense competition for recruits and fans. On top of that, many of these teams play in gyms that high schools would be ashamed of.

And even for those recruits who are disheartened when they enter West Pine, the Arena will be completed for all 2007 recruits to play in for three years and all 2008 recruits to play in for four years. So far it doesn't seem Brad has been extremely effective in his salesmanship of this concept or of the program in general.

[Taj79]

We have 80 minutes a game to give to a power forward and a center. What we know is that of that 80 minuts, you've got 38 accounted for in Meyer and Husak. Given that Knollmeyer was a virtual non-factor this year, and that out two newest addition are somewhat short for those roles, this is not good.

Couple that with the fact that, ONCE AGAIN, we are faced with two major contributors, Polk and Brown, who are assumed to improve if only by osmosis. I know I said that Polk won that one game for us and improved, and maybe we dont' make a second overtime at Dayton unless Brown runs the gamut and sinks a final second shot, but while those are nice moments, they are way too far and few between to help us get to where we want to be. If you're going to be 5'10" playing Diviosn 1 colelge basketball, then you still need to bring more to the table than Dwayne did this year. And Brown's shooting, for a shooting guard, is pitiful. Can these guys contribute? Sure, in a one-and-done, less-is-more kind of situation. If they are main contributors and provide nothing over and above what thye've done in their first three years, dont' take the Billie ship out in too deep waters next year. It might not get back to port.

And throw int he Brad factor ... which is such that unless he's desperate, he ain't playing some wet-behind-the-ears freshman. Or JUCO for that matter. What has five or six years of Brad Soderberg showed us? To me, that very little court time is gained that is not earned in practice. And that first-year players, of any ilk, usually don't find their way off the Soderberg tin. Your breakdown gives 48 mines .. over one full game per game ... to guys who have either yet to shwo anything or are somewhere off in hopeful land and yet to come. And as has been discussed, most talent does not wait for the spring season to sign.

Couple that witht he fact that we historically are not a detination of desire amongst the basketball nation and, well, like it or not, we are hurting for next year.

Mark this down however .... if we are that dependent on Meyer (who I love by the way) andPolk and Brown to fill out the roster to the point of getting significant minutes at mismatched positions, we are screwed.

I'd rather see five 6'4 guys or better swarming the ball and playing helter-skelter up-tempo to compensate for the size disadvantage. At elast it would be pretty enteratining, I think. But with Coach Bland on the bench, do you really think that will happen?

[NashvilleBilliken]

I disagree with his assessment.

Recruiting is definetly Brad's biggest deficit and he's closer to the bottom of the list than the top, but, IMO, Brad has really only had 1 bad class...and that was last year. The worst class behind that would be when Clarke and Newborne came in...but we also got Ian and Tom. Unfortunately, not having any early commitments for 2007 made it twice as bad in the summer. We don't even know who we have coming up, so I can't really speak about next year.

[Battlecat455]

"Calling him the worst recruiter in the top 100 programs is

>really hard to say.

>

>I think it is fair to say he is the worst recruiter in the

>A-10."

That doesn't even make sense. Not all of the programs in the A-10 are top 100 programs. Are you suggesting the seven schools that finished behind us are recruiting better? As far as the rest of your analysis goes, it's nothing but self serving supposition. We understand you don't like Brad. Your feeble attempts at rationalizing hurt your case.

[slu72]

Here's the definitive answer on where UB stands as a recruiter...our RPI over the last five years has probably averaged in the 80s. Bingo, he's likely the 80th or so best recruiter in College Basketball.

[SLUDrew]

Is the 2008 class not going to play all of its games in the new arena?

Is the 2007 class not going to play in the new arena for three years?

Is there another D-1 program within 100 miles of SLU?

Do we not play in a 22,000 seat arena?

Do not many of our fellow members of the A-10 play in tiny out-dated gyms?

Yes, you have to add a touch of subjectivity when making assertions like I did, but when does that not occur? Sometimes you need to look beyond raw data. Is the manager of the year in baseball always the manager that finishes with the best record? This board is a board of opinions and virtually every post on here is born of personal feelings about one thing or another. I stated my feelings on the matter and you can disagree without calling my post a "feeble attempt at rationalizing."

Truth be told, I think those that offer excuse after excuse for why the program has not made one iota of headway under Brad are those who use feeble rationalization

[moytoy12]

It's obvious that you hate brad. Again Drew, you make solid points.

Outside of KL, TL, IV, and R. Bryant (that was a Sodie recruit right)there's not a lot of boasting to be had by Sodie on the recruiting front. The string of misses, we know who they are, have been more to do with not offering or not offering soon enough as opposed to being beat out by the Duke and UNCs of the world.

06 - 2 recruits that had walk-on type minutes

07 - 1 recruit that is regarded as solid-good and 1 recruit that is regarded as unknown-good.

08 - ?

I'm happy Brad landed Relphorde and i like what i hear about mitchell, but i'm not totally convinced yet with brad's ability to recruit.

Who could be?

[Battlecat455]

I could. On the other hand, you could stop posting your opinion that Brad is a bad coach, day after day after day and attempting to bolster that position subjective claptrap as though it's fact. BTW, the 22,000 seat arena doesn't help recruiting, there are plenty of D1 schools within 200 miles and who cares if Fordham has an old gym? We are not competing for recruits with those programs.

[StLouBlue]

I am guessing that WH was looking at last year's recruiting class & making that statement. Our '06 class has played zero role for our team this year. While some of us, myself included, still feel Maguire and Knollmeyer will be productive Billikens down the line, that didn't help this years team outside of practice.

Now WH follows the other A-10 schools and coaches more than I do and probably more than most on this board, so when he says something like this I try to think about it more than most passing message board comments.

I know recruiting has been debated on this board many times and I am also reasonably certain we will probably have different opinions on this, but oh well.

1. Most A10 schools have a large market that produces many Div 1 kids. New York, Philly, DC, Cincinnati all produce many Div 1 basketball kids--St Louis market is much more inconsistant. The '08 class is surprising because of the talent and top and the overall depth of the class. The '05 & '06 classes were almost barren of talent.

2. St Louis, whoever the coach is, will be the main source of talent for our team until there is some national recognition. I have heard Brad say, and I agree, that outside of about 200 miles from St Louis, most kids haven't heard of our school. SLU is a very tough sale for kids on the coasts or down south.

3. Brad is probably most effective as a recruiter when he has an extended period of time to establish a relationship with the kid and family. Lisch, Liddell, Meyer, Polk and Maguire were all kids that I think fit this profile. This is a big reason I am hopeful for a success on the '08 class.

4. The change of assistant coaches over the summer might have a much larger positive affect than we realize. With Walker now on staff, it seems we are on much better JUCO kids than last year at this time. I don't know who was lead recruiter on our newest verbals, but this Spring seems much more hopeful than last Spring.

Points 1 & 2 will probably not change no matter who our coach is, unless/until our Gonzaga like run happens. I am not sold on the other A10 coaches yet, just because they are bringing in kids, doesn't mean this is going to translate into wins. Too many new or not yet established coaches in the A10 to really rank them with any meaning on recruiting at this point. It is easy to say Duq & Richmond have brought in a lot of talent, but would you really change rosters with them?