GOPBilliken Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 A while back there was some speculation that Brad noted that he had "lost control of the team." Whatever the quote was, or if that was just BS, something has to be said about the way this team has bonded with each other, regardless of Brad Soderberg's coaching. Today, you could just tell that the Bills wanted this win. They wanted it for Kevin Lisch, who would play with a bullet wound to the abdomen -- you talk about a kid who will no doubt join McCauley and whoever else in the rafters when we have our new arena. I'm going to say it now - that kid personifies heart. Not just college basketball and the will to win and compete -- but heart. Anyone of us would have said "yep, that's it...pack it up..." but not Kevin Lisch. I don't think I've ever seen an effort that gritty from a 19/20 year old kid. Truly amazing. Great work, Kevin. Being a has-been athlete who still likes to mix it up, I applaud your efforts this season, and when Senior Night comes around for you, I don't think there will be a dry eye in the building. You make all of us Saint Louis alums proud to be affiliated with such an outstanding young man. Ok, back to the team; I think this stretch of games has helped this team gel -- and what a perfect time --like your precious STL Cardinals -- to gel and get hot as we hit the back end of conference and the A-10 tournament. All it takes is for a team to get hot at the right time. I'd rather get our licks out of the way and healed up than be 24-6 and get bounced in the first round. I think we are a hot team right now and even though we're playing through some injuries and a lot of adversity, we have what it takes to be a Cinderella story. I'm proud of our boys. BEAT X! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 To get your name on the rafters you have to have been an All American - I hope Kevin does that but that is a real long shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crymdg2 Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Not completely true, Anthony Bonner wasn't an All American. He was really good, led the nation in rebounding, but he was not named an All American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 I hope that changes when it is out Arena. I'd like to see more Bills names hanging from the rafters. I know they have a Hall of Fame, but maybe every other year, or even every year they could have the fans vote for a player and then have a ceremony and hang their jersey. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Skip, I'd like to see more names as well...but I want the standard to be very high. If and when SLU gets a better program and better players more often, then perhaps a few of those players would compare differently to now. It is not enjoyable that there aren't more...and that is just a frustration over the state of the program and players who ahve passed through....but I definitely think the standard should be very high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 >I know they have a Hall of Fame, but maybe every other year, or >even every year they could have the fans vote for a player and then >have a ceremony and hang their jersey. Having a bunch of jerseys hang up there just for the distinction for the best player on a given team kinda cheapens the honor, don't you think? That reason that tradition got started was to honor the best of the best for their years of contribution. In our case I think a realistic bar to set for the honor is two-time first team all-conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 maybe you all are right, but I think somewhere the fans should have a say. After all, it isn't entirely about numbers, which is what it usually takes to make all conference. Marque Perry would be a great example. Was Marque a 2 time all conference? Should his name be listed with BIlliken greats? Maybe every 5 years or so the fans could vote, that way the players that don't fit the statistical requirements, but are still Billiken greats would be hanging also. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 >Marque Perry would be a great example. Was Marque a 2 time all >conference? Should his name be listed with BIlliken greats? They could always grandfather Marque in. But since we're now in the weaker A-10 instead of Conference USA, I think two-time first team as a requirement is more than fair. BTW, Marque was 2nd team his junior year and 1st team his senior year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 I feel your frustrations...tough that many years go by without a legit candidate to hang from the rafters. I think the unfortunate solution is to not cave for short term satisfactions...and still hold strong requirements. ...those short term satisfactions are sure getting longer and longer...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 so he wouldn't make it. Should Willie be on the wall at Busch? Having the fans put a favorite in every 5 years wouldn't diminish anything. It would be 4 players in 20 years. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 > Having the fans put a favorite in every 5 years wouldn't >diminish anything. It would be 4 players in 20 years. > I was addressing your original premise of voting for a player every year or every other year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Sorry, it was confusing because you replied to this post. maybe you all are right, but I think somewhere the fans should have a say. After all, it isn't entirely about numbers, which is what it usually takes to make all conference. Marque Perry would be a great example. Was Marque a 2 time all conference? Should his name be listed with BIlliken greats? Maybe every 5 years or so the fans could vote, that way the players that don't fit the statistical requirements, but are still Billiken greats would be hanging also. Would you have a problem with the fans voting in a player every 5 years? I just don't like the absolutes. Well I do like the absolutes, especially the new Ruby Red. very good on the rocks. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 "Would you have a problem with the fans voting in a player every 5 years?" Starting with what time period? If you do it that way then there is an extreme bias toward players who have played recently who may not have been as productive as players that played 35 years ago. If you set some type of objective standard, then the most deserving players get recognized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 > >so he wouldn't make it. > > Should Willie be on the wall at Busch? > > Having the fans put a favorite in every 5 years wouldn't >diminish anything. It would be 4 players in 20 years. > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H >Waldman > >Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would >have helped club. Wille? I am very fond of Willie. But Cards have established guidelines, of being a H.O.F. player...the difference is...Cards have had quite a few of them, and lots of success. If the Cards were usually not good...it would be a lonely wall out there....etc...I think Willie could be honored in some other way, perhaps outside of the park or wall etc...but then do you also honor...enter other name here...now Willie far and away is the most popular Cardinal since early 80's...by fan reaction. It is interesting. I definitely don't think Willie should be on the wall...but I do think something else should be done for him. Skip, If you saw on Sportscenter last night/this morning etc...Dwyane Wade had his jersey retired yesterday at Marquette...and the debate was...he doesn't have his degree yet, and it is a rule. They made an exception for him because his summers are spent working...World's, Olympics etc...and with his megastardom it would be 20 years or more before he could go back and get those last credits...so they made the first exception to it. Some people apparently didn't like the exception, others were fine with it, and said, hey he was 3.0 student, etc..represents the school well and made so much cash for the school publicity, as well as obvious sports success...etc...does free PR for the school as well. So criteria is debated everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 I am definitely not in favor of fans deciding. Just my opinion. I don't think it should be a popularity contest. I think informed people on a committee should make that decision. Not very fan is objective, unbiased or informed. One could say the same for a committee too...and that is the case sometimes...but I would rather a behind closed doors decision be made. Have definite criteria and debate the ones near the criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p diddy Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 plus dwayne wade is pretty much the sole reason why marquette was invited into the big east. look at the extra cheese MU gets when louisville and west virginia goes to the bcs football game and dominates. bad boyz for life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 I agree ... that is the fun of it, the debate. Personally I would say absolutely YES for Willie, but I understand the argument against ... I just don't agree. If I was a Marquette Alum ... my vote for Wade would be Yes. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Like the people who decide the current Hall of Fame in baseball. Just don't make it journalists. They aren't usually any more knowledgable than many fans ... they just think they are. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 The difference between say Willie and a college player...is that in the pros...all you care about is on field success(and don't get into trouble)...character, schoolwork etc...non-issues, they are paid professionals. So, with that, I think there needs to be a standard, because immediately I think of Ted Simmons and Keith Hernandez...etc...type players who are in Willie's ability range...not quite H.O.F. players but close...I'd have to think about it more...and try to think of a better solution, suggestion..etc.. And Diddy..the only reason why I am posting this part is so that people understand that joining a conference, like anything else is about building long term relationships...and I believe Marquette had those a long long time with Big East and was set to join previously if I am not mistaken...so it wasn't just a flash in the pan of Wade and they join. The value of this....is that SLU needs to work hard on long term conference relationships. As for the debate on that one...take away the school, who cares...isn't the point of college to take a young kid and prepare them to be a man in academics, life, sports etc...and to be highly successful in whatever you do? And if that person does just that, then in return does free pub for your school in endorsement spots, helps create millions in revenue...etc..has the grades and character...not sure what else would qualify more....some would probably be rule sticklers.....instead of having rules and criteria but looking at individual cases. I am in no way comparing the two things...but ...what about the kid in Atlanta who was sentenced to prison for having oral sex with 15 year old, he was 17...it was consenual, initiated by her...caught on video...it's been in the news recently....yes there is a rule...etc...but the rule didn't apply in that case either...and a kid continues to sit in prison. Rules are very very important, but every case, and every thing deserves individual attention....imo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 I agree with your entire post ... and after careful individual attention to Willie's case ... He is on the wall Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 > Like the people who decide the current Hall of Fame in >baseball. Just don't make it journalists. They aren't >usually any more knowledgable than many fans ... they just >think they are. > > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H >Waldman > >Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would >have helped club. I agree with that too. I don't necessarily have the best answer either. It is funny, when I go on road trips to other big league baseball parks...and a stanger or someone strikes up conversation about baseball or Cardinals etc...and inevitably everyone thinks that Ozzie Smith was the most popular Cardinal of that era...and every time I say no I think it was someone else....and they try to guess whom I am think of....and when I tell them Willie, they don't believe it...but I will never believe Ozzie was more popular than Willie in STL. As for journalists...the H.O.F. vote for McGwire told me a lot. I looked for specific journalists that I admire...those few...to see their votes, and some really disappointed me. You cannot look the other way as a journalist when players use performance enhancing drugs....collect money from books on the players success....then bash them and not vote for them years later. When McGwire played, there was ZERO steroid testing. And even today, zero HGH testing. Baseball has a long history of players using an edge for success...right or wrong...and has cheaters, horrible character guys, racists..etc..in the H.O.F. I am in no way a big McGwire guy at all...but if one voted fairly, he should be voted in based on their criteria. You can't just guess things, assume things etc...as a journalist. But many have their grudges etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 > I agree with your entire post ... and after careful >individual attention to Willie's case ... He is on the wall > > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H >Waldman > >Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would >have helped club. I am a big fan of Willie, and would at the very least like to see him honored somewhere at Busch. He exemplifies big talent, character, etc...all the things you want and admire and was adored by many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 See, I feel the opposite on Mac. I would not vote for him. Steroids were illegal. I don't care what everyone did in the past, and I don't want to reconcile my vote with that. If it's my vote ... it's my vote, using my criteria. Hopefully I would be unbiased enough to use the same criteria for all. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 > See, I feel the opposite on Mac. I would not vote for him. >Steroids were illegal. I don't care what everyone did in the >past, and I don't want to reconcile my vote with that. If >it's my vote ... it's my vote, using my criteria. Hopefully >I would be unbiased enough to use the same criteria for all. > > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H >Waldman > >Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would >have helped club. the reason why I would vote for him...is that I cannot make the decision or assumption that he did use. Did he blow up physically? yes...is there heresay evidence? yes...did he have the side effects of using? yes... however...I don't believe in assumptions, even if it seems clear to me or everyone else. I blame baseball etc...and he took advantage of the rules and system. ...but I would have to vote for him. You are assuming he used steroids. If this were in a court of law and someone's life hangs in the balance...I want more than the assumption someone killed someone else...etc...obviously not the same thing...etc...but that is the way of thinking. Sure do a lot of things make him look bad...yep. But 1) there was no steroid testing done at the time. 2) there was no proof he used them. Are you going to size up every pitcher and hitter in the game and look at them and say...he used, he didn't ...etc...you can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 No question. Anybody with the name Willie should be on the wall at Busch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.