Canadian Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Brad needs to go, and go now. The season is over. Barring a miracle run in the conference tourny (if we even get there, which is in more and more doubt every game), we won't even make a post season tourny. The past 5 years have been an embaressment. The case has been made time and time again, over thousands of posts, on this board. Its clear as day that Brad is way overmatched. I'm sick of the mediocrity that Billikan, Skip, etc accept. Can him now, and cut your losses. As I've learned, the worst thing you can do is not recognize a dog when you've got one. Cut your losses before it gets irreplacable. No. MORE. EXCUSES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 imo, canadien, those of you insisting that switching the coach is the answer are the ones settling. you are the ones that are willing to continue the every 4-5 years we switch coaches and start over roller coaster and eternal mediocrity. until the infrastructure is fixed this program will never be more than what it is, a program that will hover around a 100 rpi on most years with an occasional dip or peak year sprinkled in. the past 5 years have been been no better or worse than what we have seen for the past 25 years. get used to it. if we switch coaches nothing will change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 Roy, I know what you are saying but I am just frustrated. Really frustrated. How have you personally gotten throug the doldrums of the program? Cuz as a relatively new fan (last 6-7 years), its tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Roy, what changes/improvements/lights of hope do you see with UB that make you insist change would not be beneficial? I'll help, if you would like, this yr first time we have seen a defense other than his standard (of course the reason is he can't get his team to play his standard), his son would play for him (who in the last 2 weeks has now recvd offers from Mizzou, SIU, MOSU and others). What other recruits that would stay with the program, who knows. The down side, not sure we need to go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 probably because i was there when they were really bad. you cant imagine the ekker years or the coleman year or grawer's first and last year's. those were bad years. i was there when we were putting less than a 1000 people in the stands at the checkerdome to play the eventual national champions louisville. i laugh at those p!ssed that we "only" draw 9,000 now. i was there when we were losing to mckendree college at home. so when we stumble at st bonaventure, i know stuff happens. hell yes it is frustrating. and like a lot of us joke, "it is tough to be a billiken fan". but i have really gotten irked the last few weeks when it was uncovered how far we are behind the big boys budgetwise. i figured we werent top 25 funded, but i assumed we were closer to the top 50 mark than the 100 mark. that is embarrassing and it explains a lot imo to the roller coaster we have been riding in the biondi years. it really really makes me mad everytime i think about biondi standing at that podium swearing we were going to be a top 50 program and now finding out he was apparently going to accomplish that with magic or something. put the money where the mouth is or else come straight with the boosters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 cowboy, that isnt a job for me and you to determine. cheryl levick gets paid a lot of money to mentor and manage brad soderberg. but if i was her boss, i would insist she micro manage brad for a period of time and have him explain his moves on the court, recruiting, training and mentoring his coaches, etc. hopefully between the two of them, change would evolve naturally to the betterment of brad soderberg the coach and the saint louis university program. meanwhile, the program continues to grow inch by inch and benefits from continuity that will long term result in success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 You think UB could handle the micro-managing? That isn't meant facetiously. I know it's one of those, "he better handle it." But can he handle it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 too bad if he cant. he reports to cheryl levick and if he cant handle it that is his decision. no one is ever too good to have their manager manage them. and if they are they can leave and find employement elsewhere. that all said, brad soderberg has always seemed to me to be a very cooperative and open man. i would bet he would welcome help from cheryl levick. i am not saying cheryl tells him how to run out of bounds plays, but rather manage his thought process with dealing with his players, off court actions and decisions, recruiting, developing assistants, etc. i have no idea how much cheryl has done that or not already, but it would be an indictment of her management skills if she has not done that before cutting ties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 "too bad if he cant. he reports to cheryl levick and if he cant handle it that is his decision. no one is ever too good to have their manager manage them. and if they are they can leave and find employement elsewhere." I understand all of that, but if you know going into it that he can't handle, then why even have such a futile exercise. "i have no idea how much cheryl has done that or not already, but it would be an indictment of her management skills if she has not done that before cutting ties." No, it wouldn't be an indictment of her management skills at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 first off, moytoy, apparently you believe that he wont take guidance? why do you think that? guess what, if he wont, he just gave the university the likely documention to break ties with him. second, levick's job is to lead the athletic dept. that means the coaches all report to her and she is responsible for their development. if she doesnt do all she can to make them better, then damn right it is an indictment of her management skills. now if she has tried and the coach doesnt respond, then she has done her job and again it is time to cut the ties. but a manager that doesnt try to coach and educate their employees is not being a manager. it doesnt matter what level you are, that to me is part of the job as a supervisor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 "apparently you believe that he wont take guidance? why do you think that?" I don't think that and didn't say i did. UB is stubborn. If he can't be micro-managed, why go through the exercise. I don't know if he can or not. I asked you because seem to have better knowledge about UB personally than i do. "if she doesnt do all she can to make them better, then damn right it is an indictment of her management skills." Different folks have different management styles. To you, maybe this is the way she should do it, but that doesn't mean that's the way. For you to state what is and what isn't an indictment of her management style is silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Why would you call me out? I have stated over and over again I am for waiting until the season is over and determining at that time the best course of action. He is not going to get fired mid year, so why make a decision right this moment. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleacherBum593 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 If you want a top 25-50 program, it's going to have to increase its budget. To do so takes $$$$ from its supporters. If your contributing, contribute more. If your not contributing, then start or stop whining like a little kid So stop bitching and start writing out checks to the Program. 'Nuff Said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 i am betting that cheryl levick already is doing that to some degree. and while some people think brad soderberg to be stubborn, i say he is a man who believes in his methods and doesnt just hop around changing things to change things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I have to say I'm with Moytoy on this. If you have to micromanage your head coach ... time for a change. Now openly discussing the program challenges and direction is another, but if Cheryl needs to micro manage him ... it is time to go. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 i do. i have been a steady booster since 1990. when debbie yow first started the point system, my point rank was over 3,000. i am approaching 200 now. actually the fact that has happened in 15 years is kind of disturbing as there is no way i should have been able to jump 3000 people in that time. you threw that at the wrong guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 " and while some people think brad soderberg to be stubborn, i say he is a man who believes in his methods and doesnt just hop around changing things to change things." LOL. That sounds like a distinction without a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 i am not saying you do that long term. i agree if a manager has to do that, it is time for the employee to go. you do that as a way to help the coach find answers. assist the coach in another set of eyes and ears to the coaches universe to help them see what is happening through another set of eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Just out of curiosity, is CL qualified to be that extra set of eyes? I don't know at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleacherBum593 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Sorry Roy - I didn't mean you in particular. I just clicked on the last post of thread without checking. I'm just fed up with all the whiners around St Louis who complain, but yet aren't helping to solve the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 she better be! from what i have seen of levick she is a tireless worker, a splendid speaker and smoozer and without a doubt an excellent judge of talent based on her other coaching hires which have all turned out very positive thus far. i have supreme confidence in her. she reminds me of a more pleasant debbie yow. and yow has since reached the mountaintop! levick given the checkbook could do wonderful things imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I think that is different than micromanaging, which imo would mean laying out for him exactly what must be done and the exact procedures to accomplish it. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 First, UB's not going anywhere now. It's his job until at least the end of this season. But to keep blaming this on lack of resources is crazy. What else does Fr. Biondi need to do, he pushed an $80mm arena thru w/o all the funding. That does not scream lack of resources to me. UB, for whatever the reason, has proven to be a very poor recruiter, and a poor evaluator of talent. Just look at our major area competition over the last 5 years and where their talent is coming from, ie MO State and SIU. Mostly local players. You don't need a big time budget to cover SE ILL and MO. Think how good this team would be w/ Ahern and Shaw right now. I don't see how adding more $$ is going to improve UB's sales skills, or his talent evaluation skills. Please explain if I'm wrong. With the arena coming on line, with obvious playing time available in large quantities, with a good education being offered, I don't know why SLU can't compete more effectively for the area's available talent. UB has shown he can't. He'll survive this season no matter what happens from here on out. He may even survive another wipeout in spring recruiting. I don't think the school wants to spring for a buyout, and it was CL that gave him an extension on virtually her first day on the job. But I can't see him staying after 2008, unless he starts walking on water. I'm not in favor of keeping him after this year, but why set yourself up for a disappointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 slu72, what did slu really contribute for the arena? they got the downpayment from donations the rest will be paid from expected revenues from the arena and savings from having to rent the scott trade center. the only real out put by slu was to donate the condemned grade school that was sitting on the corner of market and compton that slu happened to own. his poor evaluation of talent was to get lisch, meyer, polk and liddell which was 4 out of 5 of the area all metro team 3 years ago. the 5th player was indeed a huge mistake as he chased grimes when he should have chased shaw. (i was one of the few that pointed that out at the time) had he not signed those kids the public would have been screaming he missed them. you cant sign them all. i dont see how you cant blame the lack of resources. like i said, go ahead and replace the coach, but if that is all that is done, i guarantee you we will be right back here having the same discussion in less than 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Roy, I believe that great strides could be made in this program if Cheryl Levick pushed the entire basketball office to get on the same page in recruiting area athletes. Brad needs way more face time in all of the high schools, not just the ones that have great players, but every high school, on a consistent basis. Brad has missed on several area players because, like Romar, he focused on the wrong kid. If he had a strong relationship with every coach in the area, that wouldn't happen. Over time, Brad, with the area coaches' input, would be able to make better evaluations. But Brad needs to make this a priority, and he needs time to do it. SLU can't be too proud to take a look at all players, not just the blue chippers. If we don't get a Leon Powell, we might get a kid from Gateway who would serve our needs just as well, but Brad has to have a connection and the willingness to make this happen--Levick could force this issue. This has been a weakness with this program ever since Grawer's last recruiting class of Highmark, Winfield, Claggett, and Grant--all were area kids, and with just two of them SLU got to the tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.