davidnark Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Roy et al. have suggested that a new coach won't be the answer because he will be an up-and-comer who will have to bring in a new system, new recruits, new assistants, etc. To that I say, it can't happen soon enough. The sooner we dump Brad's recruiting system, coaching system, etc. the better. I just can't stand to watch his paradoxically bizarre and inflexible coaching anymore. The last two coaches we brought in were Romar and Spoon. I will take my chances with a coach of either of their ilks who has the added benefit of the upgraded facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Look at MU. Yes, they are adjusting and going through some growing pains, but I think we would all admit they made an excellent hire in Mike Anderson. They are headed in the right direction. It may take a couple of years but there is reason for excitement in Coulmbia. I would be happy with growing pains. We have the pains without the growing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 In addition to your valid points, my beef is that roy et al. necessarily assume that a new coach will set us back. It isn't necessarily true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 It really depends on the coach, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Exactly. It could fizzle by all means and it could definitely set us back. BUT...it could work and it could actually be an immediate improvement. All i'm saying is that it isn't a 100% certainty that a new coach sets us back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaginCajun Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Exactly. If we are going to fire Brad we need to be committed to bringing in a fairly high profile guy. I mean Mizzou got Mike Anderson from UAB, its not like he was some lowly assistant or low profile guy. Whether it be an assistant from a major program or a head coach from another program, we need to be bring in someone who is going to bring instant excitement to this program. I think what many posters on here have kind of hinted at is that this may be harder to do than some think. I thought that the hiring of Romar was a great get, but he is here three years before moving on to bigger and better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlecat455 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Except that you are not happy with growing pains which is what SLU is experiencing. Regardless of your opinion regarding the teams recent performance, we are better off now than a year ago. You don't think the growth is quick enough. I suspect you would be complaining about Anderson as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Umm...UB's coaching problems have existed for roughly 5 years. When do those growing pains start to subside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 do you think mike anderson would have come here? i dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Agreed. Neither do i. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majerus Magic Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 What I gather from that crowd is that they have the theory of " if it ain't broke don't fix it." I don't understand how people are okay with a mediocre team. I honestly don't care if the team gets set back initially with the installation of a new coach/coaching system because seriously you can miss the the tournament with a .500 record or you can miss it with a below .500 record. Either way, we are missing the tournament. Atleast with the new coach we might actually see signs of progression rather than the static coaching job that is taking place now. Honestly, what does SLU have to lose? Its not like we are blowing this up this team in the midst of a great run. Maybe a change would actually spark a change? Why are people so afraid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 >Regardless of your opinion regarding the teams recent performance, we are better off now than a year ago. You don't think the growth is quick enough. The only reason we are better off this yearis because TL, KL and LM are a year older and have improved their play. Period. The program as a whole is far from improved and is very close to falling out of relevance if UB can't right the ship with some talent that will be able to do more than skip class and eat. I challege you to tell me how we are better off that last year(and don't give me the W-L record) example, that is a cop out. We should have a better record we returned over 80% of our scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 future, can you guarantee that if a new coach comes in and starts over that we arent here debating the exact same thing five years from now with only the names changed? because slu history tells us we will. that is my *****. that is what we have to lose. at best treading water. fix the infrastructure develop some consistency and build from within. force soderberg to develop high quality assistants find your own replacement that can carry the torch. go study the gonzaga story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 kappy, what if spoon all at once didnt have claggett, highmark and waldman? a lot of good teams are built around 3 players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlecat455 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 What other barometer would one use besides won-lost record? Your subjecture opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaginCajun Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I think the point being made was that Brad Soderberg and the coaching staff did not do anything to improve this team from last year. We lost two seniors in Anthony Drejaj and Vas'Shun Newborne while bringing in three kids who have contributed nothing, one who is no longer with the program. The improvement of Tommie and Luke is the only thing making this years team better than last years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majerus Magic Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Roy, I feel like you are getting angry. I'm just letting you know, its nothing personal, just my sentiments regarding the program. First off, no, I can't guarantee you that we won't be in this same position in five years. What I am saying is that I feel like we are more likely to be in the same position five years down the road if we are to stick with Brad. From what he has shown me, it doesn't appear that he is able to build on his success. I feel like I am beating a dead horse when I say this, but if you cannot recruit successfully you will not be able to build a program. How do you expect Brad to build a program when he can't sign anyone who will buy into his program? I would consider that SLU has been treading water for the last 7 years even with Brad as our coach. I don't consider his current tenure here to be very successful, so I am looking for a change. I don't think that is unreasonable. Roy, can you guarantee me that we will be in Gonzaga's situation in 15 years? You seem confident that we will be in their same position, but I am not so confident. You seem to believe that being like Gonzaga is a foregone conclusion if we stick with the current program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 What does the infrastructure have to do with UB's coaching deficiencies? I would be happy with the Spoon era again. Romar wasn't here for five years, but he gave me cause to feel good about the program. UB has been here five years, has been to an NIT and the program appears to be trending downward. Success has been had at SLU compared to what is going on with UB under the same, if not worse (arena not in plans), infrastructure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlecat455 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 FutureBill, it is not a question of fear. We disagree as to the best way to build a program. I tend to agrre with the posters that feel continuity is important to that process. The point has been made that the problems far exceed the current coaching staff and I agree. Firing the coach without addressing the underlying issues is, in fact, a treading water position. To those that think that firing Brad can only help, I would ask , how can you assure me the situation won't get worse? It very well could. This season is not even over and most of you have tossed in the towel. I sure hope the players have more faith in themselves than you seem to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Do you really not see a difference between where Anderson is (17 games into his first season) and Soderberg is (in his 5th mediocre season)? Anderson has brought excitement to MU. He is a proven recruiter. He plays an exciting style that will entice players and fans. If I were an MU alum I would be happy to right off this season and maybe next, knowing that good things for my program are just around the corner. Meanwhile we are 2-3 in a conference which will probably wind up getting one invite to the tourney. By the way, our 3 losses are to arguably the three worst teams in conference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Roy, I don't understand your point. Please elaborate, I don't see the connection. Clags, Highmark and the crew were given some help by Spoon. TL and KL have not had that luxury. Battlecat, my point was that simply looking at the W-L record can be decieving because I don't think anyone would argue that we should have a better team this year given the number of returning players. However, when you look at factors such as our lack of depth, departure of two recruits, goose egg fall signing class, the back to back embarassment to the Bonnies and Duquesne and failure to gain a signature victory AGAIN, in my opinion I see a program heading the wrong direction. Why should I be excited about next year? It pains me to think that TL, KL, LM and DP will have no one to support them. I hope I'm wrong, but why would any one think other wise. Other than the new arena, there isn't a lot of forward momentum right now........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 In my case, I remember full well the darkest days of SLU Billikens Basketball. We are nowhere near that stage right now. An entire treatise could be written about SLU hoops that culminated in Ekker's 4 years. Believe me, SLU is nowhere near that near terminal stage. Rich Grawer all but resuscitated this program from the dead. I was at SLU then; I remember it well. Let me preface this by saying that I was not in favor of the hiring of the current coach. I still do not like some of his coaching methods. At least the stall ball offense has been abandoned. Isn't it time for the pack defense to go too? However, SLU can't keep changing coaches. None of the coaches, Grawer, Spoon, Romar, or Soderberg have had an adequate practice facility. I remember one of them saying he closed his eyes when he brought a recruit into West Pine Gym, which was archaic decades before I started following the team in 1978. Once the new facility opens, then if SLU still cannot get the recruits, then it will be time for a change at the helm. Another point: who is SLU going to get to coach if a coaching change occurs? In the darkest final year of Ekker's regime, everyone knew that the heir apparent, Rich Grawer, was serving his one year apprenticeship under Norm Stewart at Mizzou. Everyone knew who the new coach should be, as long as SLU stayed in Division 1. Many say that Grawer should have been hired instead of Ekker 4 years earlier. History has proven that SLU hoops wins when the local players stay home. Perhaps better out of town recruits will come to SLU when the new Arena opens, but that remains to be seen. Look, if SLU had not lost to Duquesne, would this discussion even be occurring? We can't burn down the house over 1 or 2 games, as bad and disappointing as they were. Playing in the A-10, SLU has virtually no margin for error if it wants to meet its goal of that NCAA Tournament bid. The home court must be protected. And the bottom feeders must be defeated on the road too. Those two games (Duquesne and St. Bonaventure) are the real problem. 14-4, 4-1, or even 13-5, 3-2, would look a lot better than 12-6, 2-3, wouldn't it? And 12-6 is a lot better than years like 9-18, 6-21 (Ekker's teams' records my last 2 undergraduate years at SLU). It all depends upon how one looks at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I'm not saying the firing of Brad will necessarily help. I'm getting repetitive with this i know, but i'm just saying it isn't a foregone conclusion that firing Brad and getting a new coach would set us back. I know the in thing is to beat the infrastructure drum, but please explain how more money is going to solve UB's coaching probs? Are we going to send UB to coaching clinics with this rebuilt infrastructure and increased budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlecat455 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Kappy, I understand the point you're making, but again, these are your opinions. There isn't much momentum today, I agree. There was last Sunday and there may very well be again this Sunday. My main objection to the "fire Brad" posters is that this season isn't over and people want to follow Brad around with shovels. Let's see how it plays out. In the end there is nothing else for us to do anyway. BTW, of course TL, LM, KL and DP are better this year. They have been coached to be better. It doesn't happen in a vaccuum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlecat455 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 To some degree, I would anticipate Brad's coaching will continue to improve. Better players would help as well and it's not a foregone conclusion that help isn't coming. I presume that most people improve in their respective field of endeavor with time and experience and that includes those that have been at their occupation for awhile. We have seen the slo-mo offense ditched this year in favor of a more up tempo offense. I'm hoping I continue to improve at my profession even after 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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