cgeldmacher
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Posts posted by cgeldmacher
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I think I mentioned this before, but agree to a semi merger of the two conferences (for basketball only) while still keeping two separate legal entities to preserve two automatic bids to the NCAA tournament. Then have a soccer style relegation system. Bottom four teams drop down and top four teams move up each year. The lower conference in the arrangement still gets an automatic bid, but the upper part of the conference gets an automatic bid of its own and access to much better competition, and, therefore, much better chances at getting at-large bids.
Billikenbooster likes this -
Regardless of what has happened this season up to this point, that was a really good win. St. Joe's has a win over Villanova at Villanova this year and took Kentucky to overtime in Lexington.
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Just wanted to give a Jordan Goodwin update so that we can read/discuss something that we all can agree on, how proud we are of JG. Here are notes about his stats with the Suns this season:
10th in minutes per game
10th in points per game (understandable)
2nd (tied) in games played (we knew that Jordan is reliable)
7th in assists per game
7th in rebounds per game
4th in offensive rebounds per game (despite being 10th in minutes per game - awesome)
3rd in assist/turnover ratio with 2.7 (that's fantastic)
Hey Coach Vogel, I think Jordan deserve some more minutes. Maybe even a start. Eleven different players have started for the Suns this season, while Jordan has zero starts. Many of the guys who have started do not have the stats that Jordan has. In fact, only one of the guys with a start this year has a better assist/turnover ratio than him. He shows up every day (see the 2nd in games played stat) and plays hard for you. Give the guy some love.
OkieBilliken, SLU_Lax, brianstl and 4 others like this -
2 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:
That's what Ok St did, $3.9 million to be exact. And signed the new coach to a 5 year deal. I'll believe our boosters will do something similar when I see it. It would be the most expensive mid major buyout in college basketball history.
Yes. You are correct. Here is an article about it: https://tulsaworld.com/sports/college/osu/osu-sports-more-details-from-the-settlement-agreement-between-oklahoma-state-and-former-coach-travis/article_ab6c1616-10ac-5e54-8006-dd0a7dc8191b.html
So, NO, I don't think anyone should expect that we will have to pay him $10M.
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2 hours ago, willie said:
You are making several assumptions here. Contracts also include buy out numbers. If also a rumor that there were people wanting to buy him out last year why would May extend ? I also question the 5 year number. The question is what was the length of the 21 extension?
Agree. Just because there is $10M or $7.5M left on his contract after this season doesn't necessarily mean that this is the amount required for a buyout. Many contracts have a separate buyout clause. If this one does, it would mean there is a different, lower amount for a buyout. Also, the powers that be might approach Ford after the season and say "We'll give you $4M right now, and freedom to start coaching at another school immediately, if you agree to walk away."
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3 hours ago, Cowboy II said:
-how much stock do you put in what has been said on here that CFord has an auto-renewal clause in his contract leading to a large buyout figure?
The most accurate thing I can say here is, I don't know. Whatever the situation is, I still trust the insiders to deal with it. If there is a booster or small group of boosters that pay Ford's salary, I guarantee that they do know and have plan to deal with it.
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18 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:
Exactly what a nice person would say.
Yeah the Internet isn't made for nice people like you. Maybe you can go into the basement where you're 21 "kid" is playing Xbox and eating Tostinos Pizza Rolls to talk about Ford's accomplishments. And also sneak in that question, "have you applied for any jobs? Plan on moving out, son?" Then you can go cheer really hard for coach Ford because he's trying so hard and he really wants to win and your cheers and all our cheers combined is the missing ingredient (like the end of Elf but for basketball). Guess where that's going to get you? No where.
I'm not embarrassed by criticizing our Coach, AD, you, mixing in a few jokes, jabs and Memes. Point to something personal anyone's said about the coach or AD?*
*The above jab can be seen as personal but it's a joke. I don't know you, know your "kid" he could be great a Rhoades Scholar. Just using humor to illustrate your previous bad takes. Also I'm not sure I can stop being condescending it's in my DNA, like winning DNA but for message boards.
I took it the right way. Don't worry. Also, I don't think that you and I are far apart on this. I said in the past offseason that Ford should get one more year and that the conditions for staying on after that were either make the NCAA tournament, or, short of that, really show everyone that the program is headed in the right direction. That has not happened. So, outside of a miraculous turnaround, I believe he should be let got after the season.
Where you and I disagree is on what fans should be doing in the meantime. We have a choice. (1) Trust the powers that be at SLU and know that the those making this decision (probably big donors who are paying Ford's salary) are truly Billiken fans like us who want great things for the program or (2) make a ton of noise, buy billboards, sign petitions, and embarrass the hell out of a guy who really put everything he had into trying to elevate our program, did some good things and gave us some good memories, but, in the end, didn't pan out.
I personally think that a coaching change will happen, that this decision has probably already been made in back room meetings, and that strategies are already being worked out. If that is true, then all of this sending letters and buying billboards stuff (I don't care about bitching on Billikens.com, that's what its for) will be looked at later on as just too much and you may regret it. If I'm wrong about what the decision makers are going to do, then you are probably right that a bit more action is necessary to get people's attention. I don't know if I would go as far as you seem to want to, but we would agree in principle.
I'm where I am, because I think this is already a done deal. I know you don't trust that, but I do.
MB73, DOC, TheChosenOne and 1 other like this -
2 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:
First time on the Internet?
You seem like a really nice person. But, no. What you want will never happen. We'll over analyze, speculate and criticize the program and particularly the coach until we start winning for real.
Nobody is messing with the kid. On 9/11, I was 22 years old, Platoon Leader of 3 Multiple Launch Rocket Systems (MLRS) on the border of Iraq. Wonder if I woulda shot one would ya have cut me some slack? So keep infantilizing your boys lemme know how that works out for ya./rant over
Stop being condescending. You've said a few times now that I seem like a really nice person. Well, I can be just a much of a d&#k as anyone else. Again, I am rather confident that this is all being worked out behind the scenes already. Assuming this is the case, this constant barrage being launched at Coach Ford is unnecessary and, frankly, embarrassing. After a new coach is hired and things have moved on, you will look back on this and feel embarrassed by how you have acted. Others will too. But, but all means, buy your billboard. I'm sure the people surrounding this program, including people at the university and boosters, who will all still be here after Ford is gone, will quickly forget how you acted during this difficult time of a coaching transition.
Billikenbooster likes this -
Look, I have a son who is 21 years old, and, yes, he is still a kid. Kids do stupid stuff and if the worst thing you do as a kid is try to defend your father against people criticizing him, that's not so bad. I'm willing to bet all of us did worse stuff between the ages of 15 and 23. Please remember that during this whole discussion. This is a kid!!
This entire situation is getting out of control. I have pretty much said this already, but Ford should probably be let go after the season, and SLU should probably be looking for a replacement as we speak. I also believe that not only should this happen, but that it is happening. The big donors who pull the strings behind the scenes at SLU have money to make those donations because they are intelligent. Trust that these smart folks see the same things we do and have the same desires and expectations for our program that we do.
This whole campaign against Ford is very much overkill and unnecessary trolling of a guy who really, really wanted to succeed here at SLU. For several reasons, many of which are his own shortcomings, it did not work out. The fact that he failed to raise our program up to the level we wanted is not reason to constantly bash the guy. Give it a rest. Every comment he makes is over analyzed and hammered on. Every loss is treated as if its reason to tar and feather him. Is it impossible for guys on this board to just let this play out gracefully, not continually embarrass Coach Ford and themselves, and just wait for the next coach?
kshoe, DOC, SLUMedBilliken15 and 5 others like this -
1 hour ago, wgstl said:
What’s the point in giving ford another year? Do you need 9 years and not just 8 to understand he is a horrible coach?
Wow, the reading comprehension is really suffering here lately. If a coach that could turn us into Gonzaga is two years away I’d rather wait. I’d much rather wait for that guy than hire somebody who is not going to work out next year. I can’t imagine anyone disagree with that.
if a really good coach is available this off-season, let’s get him. -
A bad next hire, which would take several years to fix, would be worse than one more year of Ford followed by a great hire.
billiken_roy likes this -
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On 1/5/2024 at 1:56 PM, Soderball said:
Dude i'm pretty sure a damp rag would do a better job than Ford at this point. booooo
You seem to regularly misinterpret what I’m saying. I’m not saying we shouldn’t change. I’m saying I want the next coach to be the right hire. Whenever and however that happens, I want us to get the right guy. Thus, I want to make sure that we’re in a position to make that happen. Anything that puts us in a position where we have to compromise on the next hire will be a bad move.
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I really wish LHJ would decide/understand that he’s a three point shooter rather than all the other stuff he tries to be. If he ever figures that out, I think we’re a better team.
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7 minutes ago, Soderball said:
Weak. If we have a coach who is wildly successful and gets grabbed by Louisville for 10 million a year, GOOD
I will gladly take that Final Four or Elite Eight appearance. That would kick ass.
They have to buyout the contract and we will have some serious success to spring us to another successful hire.
The only danger is what we have now, a coach with a fat contract who noone wants and we can't win with.
Fine, but everyone keeps saying they want a coach with a proven record. That doesn't come from an assistant. Also, the best candidates who are assistants or who are currently head coaches go straight to the power conference schools. So, do you want us to be choosing from the 2nd tier of assistants or lower conference coaches. I would say that is weak.
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I've always been of the opinion that the best situation for SLU is a good coach who tried to climb to the top, but got blocked by bad circumstances at a big state school. I say this, because a coach in this position will have the perspective to see SLU as a nice landing spot with great facilities that he can try to turn into the next Gonzaga. Ford seemed to fit that bill, but we all know how that is currently going. A young coach may still see SLU as a spring board to a power conference job.
In that regard, Chris Holtman at Ohio St. and Bobby Hurley at Arizona State are both on the hot seat this season. The consensus on Hurley is that Arizona State is too far away from his recruiting zone and recruiting connections. We may be closer.
There is also Mike Brey, although he is 64.
Young Charles likes this -
23 hours ago, cheeseman said:
Ford's contract is what in business they call "sunk money". We already have lost it now the question is only do we continue to put good money in a bad deal? Of course, the answer is no but for some reason some have the idea that it is OK to do this when it comes to Ford's contract. Additionally, even getting Ford to agree to lower his salary which is highly unlikely, just so that money could be used for NIL payments has one major problem - Ford would still be here and he would then be spending the money on who knows who. It makes no sense to let the incompetent continue to stay in place and make more incompetent decisions. Ford is the perfect example of "The Peter Principle". Time to cut bait and move forward rather than treading water and slipping farther down the current.
Again, I have to be careful here, I don't disagree. However, just saying it is a sunk cost is not altogether true. If we let Ford go and have to pay the rest of his deal, then we have to do that and pay a new coach. A new coach will want to be paid. A good new coach, the kind we would want, will want to be paid more than some other options. If we have a certain amount of money allocated to the head coaching position, and we have to use that money to pay the new coach and Ford, then we may not be able to afford the type of coach we want. It's easy to throw out a business school term like sunk cost as a way to justify not having any limits on spending, but the practicalities of situation do not necessarily line up.
I don't know the details about Ford's contract or what it would take to buy it out. I would assume that the people in charge and the big donors who are flipping the tab for our head coaches contract are very, very aware of all of this. I guarantee they are strategizing about this and crunching the numbers. The goal is to have the best coach put into the best position to succeed. I don't want to change anything until it is certain that the finances work out for this to occur. Like I said, the people that need to know this already do.
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23 hours ago, JMM28 said:
It isn't 400k. It is 500k++. It comes from about as knowledgable as you can get and not be named Travis or Fred. Like any donor funded initiative, it is that now but could change by 2 pm if someone gets pissed and pulls their support or adds another 100k on top because they had a good year at the dog track.
You'll never have evidence of what BVF has, sorry. No NIL collectives are really publishing what they're doing financially. They'll publicize cars, deals with companies, etc, but you won't get the actual payouts to players. There is a lot of bull**** floating around out there about all these deals which is what keeps it interesting.
It sounds like you have source that can be trusted. Next question though. Is that $500K+ that is in there now, or $500K+ for each year, meaning we expect to have $2M+ over the next four years?
JMM28 likes this -
Having said that, we would have to want Ford to continue under a reduced salary and trust that he could turn better quality players into better results. I think many on this board would say better results may not happen even with better players.
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Just now, billikenfan05 said:
There is no good reason to not buy out Travis ford. If you do not buy him out you pay the same $ that you would if you did buy him out AND you lose 3-4 years of momentum. With the way NCAA basketball is changing, I have no clue what things will look like by then.
I don't disagree. I just disagreed with Soderball's interpretation of Roy's post.
Economics wise, you are correct that paying the buyout may be the better financial decision. I also agree with your take about Ford offering to lower his salary. What would he make at his next job? Not $2.5M. Probably more like $500K to $750K. It would be better to take decrease now to bring in better players than to lose that much of your money stream over time. I know he would be owed more from this contract, but if he plans to continue coaching long term, it might be a better call.
billiken_roy likes this -
2 hours ago, Soderball said:
I get what you're saying Roy; frankly i don't really care as much if it's just pro sports(which it is) as you do. I do agree that apathy is the best recourse; Ford is gone once the costs to keep him outweigh the costs to fire him. From that perspective I hear you.
I think that the calls to not be outraged or enraged or calling out the crummy AD and mediocrity acceptance of the school is grossly misplaced. We disagree on a lot, but i know perfectly well that you know what you're looking at out there on the court. I just think you're wrong on this and being enraged at and calling for Ford to be gone remains effective and fans should continue to do so, vehemently.
SLU already invested in a D1 program with this champions center and Chaifetz arena. That ship already sailed. I never thought Ford would actually be here for 8 years. These long-running coaching contracts are just idiotic. Noone was ever coming to get CTF. We took a has-been, knew we were taking a has-been, and signed him up like he was Shaka Smart. Nuts.
If you interpreted Roy's post as saying people should not be upset or that folks are not allowed to express outrage, then I think you misread his post. Read it again. He simply says that the situation may stay the same for reasons other than performance.
I also question this attitude that is out there that there's a segment of fans arguing with you and telling you not to express your outrage. Other than a very few, I don't see people expressing that idea at all. You need to stop raging against the imaginary machine.
billiken_roy likes this -
2 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:
Roy, I feel you on this, I'm not sure what stage of grief this happens to be. However, I do think the $2.5mil/year is paid by a booster or a few boosters. We learned from fairly anonymous but likely credible sources that SLU has approx $400K in the BVF. So I think boosters are spending the money. My question is are they fed up enough to pay Ford to walk? I think they have to be. If your name is on an empty building that's a hit to your ego. If you have money to try and buy NBA franchises then you have the money to pay Ford to walk. My concern is are they too close to the situation, too snowed by "good guy" Ford to see the problem?
$2.5mil/year is out of whack with the league and results. Adjust that to $1.5 the other money goes into NIL or NIL stays at $400K, I think we can compete. Need a coach that can find players to fit a system and coach em up every season because turn over will continue to be a thing. The right coach can win right away, look at Will Wade at McNeese St. from 328 rank in turn overs to best in the nation, from 11-23 last season to 11-2 right now with a win at Michigan.
This is not a disagreement with anything you or anyone else is saying on this topic, but I'm concerned that this $400K to $500K number for the BVF is not accurate. This happens often on this board. Someone will say I heard something from a friend that said that their cousin said this, then a few people will comment about that same sentiment in other posts, and then all of the sudden that statement gets assumed to be fact because its been repeated.
Do we have any real evidence that the BVF has this amount to use? Is that the amount in the fund, or an amount that we have every year? I think someone said they had a source, but I can't rely on this source if all I know about it is that it is someone that a poster referred to as a "source." My point is, let's not start assuming this is fact based upon one person claiming a source and then several uniformed, circulated posts.
SLU Athletics/NIL
in Billikens.com Main Board
Posted
NIL is the law, but pay-for-play is not. Pay-for-play is still against the NCAA rules and nothing about the court decisions that have been handed down or the legislation passed by states says that NCAA cannot enforce its pay-for-play ban. There's no doubt that since NIL law was made, it has been the wild west and pay-for-play is happening. However, the NCAA still has rules against pay-for-play, and, I think, this is the NCAA's first attempt to enforce them.
School are supposed to be hands off with regard to NIL money. That is why a separate collectives are necessary. This guy at Florida State drove the family to the collective and appears to have been involved in the conversation while there. That is against the rules. All he had to do was say, here's the address go talk to them.
EDIT: Also, disassociation with FSU's collective is like saying FSU is on double secret probation. FSU's athletic department is supposed to be disassociated with the collective anyway. This is just the NCAA saying that they really shouldn't associate with the collective for the next three years.