kevinfootes Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 exists on this board. It's the "SLU can get a big time/big name coach" flavor of kool-aid. When has SLU EVER gotten a big time coach? Spoon had a good reputation, but you could see that his lack of effort on the recruiting end ultimately cost him here and at UNLV as well. Romar has done well at Washington, but he was probably a year away from getting fired by SLU. Who are these "big time/big name" coaches that are beating down the door to coach at SLU? Do we remember the last coaching search? I don't seem to recall Phil Jackson beating down Biondi's door. I think Brad's status will need to be evaluated after this season, especially if they don't at least make the NIT. However, here is my question: What "big time/big name coach" will come to SLU? Biondi won't open the coffers unless it's for artwork, fountains, or new buildings. Which coach will come to SLU at less than market value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiphan Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 >exists on this board. It's the "SLU can get a big time/big >name coach" flavor of kool-aid. > >When has SLU EVER gotten a big time coach? Spoon had a good >reputation, but you could see that his lack of effort on the >recruiting end ultimately cost him here and at UNLV as well. > Romar has done well at Washington, but he was probably a >year away from getting fired by SLU. > >Who are these "big time/big name" coaches that are beating >down the door to coach at SLU? Do we remember the last >coaching search? I don't seem to recall Phil Jackson >beating down Biondi's door. > >I think Brad's status will need to be evaluated after this >season, especially if they don't at least make the NIT. >However, here is my question: > >What "big time/big name coach" will come to SLU? Biondi >won't open the coffers unless it's for artwork, fountains, >or new buildings. Which coach will come to SLU at less than >market value? Indeed. But careful Footes, you'll get labeled as a SLU hater for being so realistic. AlumniFan will be first in line for the Kool-Aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I don't know the inner workings of the SLU budget, but I would be shocked to see us go out and get a big name coach. We will get an up and comer and that is a crapshoot. This was a bad loss, no a very bad loss, but I am surprised that it is 100% the coaches fault. Brad is here through the end of the year ... so we might as well support him and the team. To be honest I'd be surprised if Brad got fired even if we don't make the NIT (which I think will be tough) we are still 10-4. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Again, I have no idea how those if us who aren't Soderberg fans are labeled as negative, but those of you who don't think SLU can ever improve are supposedly super fans????!!!That is asinine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 we could've had Brian Gregory, who was a "big name" assistant. Instead we went for a guy who Northern Iowa turned down. So what if a guy is going to use the program as a stepping stone to a big time job, as long as he leaves it in better shape than he inherited, right? Think Kent State wishes they hadn't hired Stan Heath? Nevada wishes they hadn't hired Trent Edwards? UW-Milwaukee Bo Ryan? Northern Iowa Gregg McDermott? SMS Steve Alford, SIU Weber and Painter, and so on and so on and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 especially if the program is better off after the coach left then when he got here. All these "stay the course" "maintain the status quo at all costs" guys are really depressing. WHat good is that status quo if the status quo is mediocre? No one has given me a reasonable answer to this question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 the same brian gregory that thus far has a worse record every year he has been at dayton. i have a real problem with lawman saying "we". unless you are talking about marquette when you use that term. it is no secret you detest soderberg because of your wisconsin hatred. any visit to the marquette board over the last few years bears that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 My point is that the people thinking Biondi will bring in Coach K Jr. who will stay 20 years are nuts...or "asinine" as you put it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 who left SLU in such great shape...or Quin Snyder, and so on and so on. UW-Milwaukee is having a great year, right?!?!?!?!? If SLU could hire a good coach who would leave the program in better shape than when he started I'd be thrilled. Now please tell me when that has happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 When has SLU ever had the coach who left the program better than when he found it? Don't even go there with Lazy Charlie Spoon, the guy who could have led SLU into the top 50 but didn't want to interfere with his social calendar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 UWM??? Rob Jeter inherited a loaded team from Bruce Pearl and took it dancing. Where were you? Now those kids are gone and Jeter has to do it on his own and start recruiting for himself. They beat OU and lost to eventual NCAA Champion Florida after giving them decent game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 >exists on this board. It's the "SLU can get a big time/big >name coach" flavor of kool-aid. > >When has SLU EVER gotten a big time coach? Spoon had a good >reputation, but you could see that his lack of effort on the >recruiting end ultimately cost him here and at UNLV as well. > Romar has done well at Washington, but he was probably a >year away from getting fired by SLU. > >Who are these "big time/big name" coaches that are beating >down the door to coach at SLU? Do we remember the last >coaching search? I don't seem to recall Phil Jackson >beating down Biondi's door. > >I think Brad's status will need to be evaluated after this >season, especially if they don't at least make the NIT. >However, here is my question: > >What "big time/big name coach" will come to SLU? Biondi >won't open the coffers unless it's for artwork, fountains, >or new buildings. Which coach will come to SLU at less than >market value? Romar a year away from being fired at SLU....lol...thx I needed the laugh. SLU doesn't need a big name coach, just a better one. They won't get a big name anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I can't recall anyone saying fire Soderberg and bring in Roy Williams. The only plusses UB has going for him are: 1.) He might be a Martelli type, but of course no one else is knocking on his door. So how do we know for sure? 2.) He's a good family man and Catholic to boot. 3.) He follows the NCAA book on recruiting. His minuses far outweigh the above and, hence, SLU is mired in a swamp of mediocrity. We need to find a guy like Gillespie at A&M, a guy like WVU's coach (name escapes me), Howland who rescued Pitt. These guys all came from small programs and succeeded. Sure it's a risk. A new coach, if he's successful, will likely leave for greener pastures. Address this up front w/him and make sure he brings in good assistants, see the SIU, Gonzaga, XU models. All have had numerous hc changes, but still maintain their winning ways. So it's not the end of the world if Mr. Suddenly Hot Shot coach decides to leave SLU for Big Time State U. I also can't believe Biondi or CL is so out of touch with reality that they know a highly regarded AC or small school coach will come cheap. If I had CL's job, I'd have a crib list of hot shot up and comers stashed in a secret file and be analyzing, checking, and inquiring about these guys to see who might be the best fit for SLU in the event UB's performance keeps slipping. With the new arena coming on line, a decent pay scale for both the HC and AC's, a boost in the recruiting budget, I can't imagine an ambitious talented young coach, who will play it clean unlike a Q, wouldn't look seriously at SLU. This program's biggest shortfall has been, outside of Spoon's brief era, no HC has ever generated any excitement by effecting a fairly quick turnaround. Easier said than done, sure, but it seems to get done at a couple of schools every year. Why not us? Another thing, I'm not so sure UB is in all that solid with the '08 wunderkids. Have any verballed, have any indicated SLU is near being a front runner (Suggs may have and oh yes, Kramer)? Also, if what Vtime says is true, Powell wants to be a Bill, yet he has held off signing. Why? I'm laying odds this kid is wearing black and gold next year. Look, by all rights UB should have been maintained at UW. The head assistant in a final four run, the interim hc who leads them to the dance. Bennet and UB went to UW when they were not much a hoops school and made them one. One would have thought he'd earned the right to replace Bennet at least for the next year. What did they know that we seem to keep ignoring. The guy can't recruit? He's not much from a PR standpoint? He's a hard headed traditionalist whose as flexible a five inch cast iron pipe? We are not Brad haters. Quite the opposite, we ABC'ers all wanted him to be the man, to succeed where others failed, to be our Pied Piper. But the further down the road we go, it's becoming clearer he ain't the guy. When a coach says he can't reach his players, something's wrong. Leave out recruiting for a second, and what's a coach's main function in life? Duh, to reach his players. Maybe his inability to reach his players is also the reason he can't land decent recuits. And no, Billikan, that's not a knock on DM and AK. He's the one not playing them, not the ABC'ers. No dance this year...no Brad Soderberg next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 >When has SLU ever had the coach who left the program better >than when he found it? Don't even go there with Lazy >Charlie Spoon, the guy who could have led SLU into the top >50 but didn't want to interfere with his social calendar. Wow! This is one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen in some time. The same Charlie Spoonhour who led a program that several times finished in the top 10 in the country in attendance. The same Spoonhour who was largely responsible for all 4 of SLU's NCAA Tournament appearances. The roster he left Romar finsished that season with an RPI of 39. I don't go back as far as some of you guys, but I don't think there were a lot of NCAA Tourney appearances or instances of a team cracking the top 25 or being in the top 10 in the country in attendance PRIOR to Spoonhour. I think it's safe to say, Spoon left the program in much better shape than he found it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 >exists on this board. It's the "SLU can get a big time/big >name coach" flavor of kool-aid. > >When has SLU EVER gotten a big time coach? Spoon had a good >reputation, but you could see that his lack of effort on the >recruiting end ultimately cost him here and at UNLV as well. > Romar has done well at Washington, but he was probably a >year away from getting fired by SLU. > >Who are these "big time/big name" coaches that are beating >down the door to coach at SLU? Do we remember the last >coaching search? I don't seem to recall Phil Jackson >beating down Biondi's door. > >I think Brad's status will need to be evaluated after this >season, especially if they don't at least make the NIT. >However, here is my question: > >What "big time/big name coach" will come to SLU? Biondi >won't open the coffers unless it's for artwork, fountains, >or new buildings. Which coach will come to SLU at less than >market value? Wow! Where do you come up with this stuff. Romar would have been fired in a year? He made the NCAA Tourney his first year, followed it up with two .500 seasons, but was starting to make recruiting inroads with the Hollins signing. I don't remember hearing any rumblings of Romar getting fired after just 3 or 4 seasons. As for the "big name coach" strawman, who on here has suggested that? Maybe I missed it an earlier thread, but who is going around saying SLU should get a "big name coach"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 ace it could be debated that if grawer stays julian winfield stays and why wouldnt the same team grow up and be successful under grawer? sure grawer never gets h waldman, but grawer would have had success. immediately after "grawers recruits" graduate, spoon proceeds to go 16-14 and 11 and 18 before hitting the larry hughes jackpot. the next year with hughes gone they return to 15 and 16. the point is, spoon was just as up and down as any other billiken coach under his own laurels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 so the started over basically when they got the new coach, jeter. isnt that what footes, me and a lot of others are saying? a new coach is no guarantee for success and more likely means starting over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I don't know much about the Grawer era and I know that Claggett and Highmark came from the previous coach, but Spoonhour quickly added to that by bringing in Dobbs and Waldman. As I pointed out in a previous thread, he then built on that core group, by adding valuable role players in Robinson, Harris, and Turner, something this coach has failed to do. BTW Roy, are you ready to retract your statement that this year's team is better than the Clag/Waldman group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 On Jan. 3 at 9:05 pm Nark made a post about SLU attracting a big name coach. Drew and Tee also chimed in. I'm not knocking them per se, just disagreeing with the idea that a big name coach will come to SLU. Maybe you should read through these posts before throwing out "strawman" garbage. AS for Romar, here is his history at SLU: 19-14 17-14 15-16 As you can see, he did worse each season as he added his own recruits. Who knows how good Hollins would have been at SLU? He was a role player at UCLA. I think it's safe to say that another year of decline would have put Romar on the hot seat. Or maybe you'd be happy with, say, 13-18 and almost getting somebody good with no backup plan? Who are Romar's great SLU recuits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 Spoon won with a core group of players recruited by Grawer (who fell on his sword to make the program better that year). Charlie added H and some role guys and did well. BUT, then he rested on his laurels and didn't recuit well. Let's face it, if Hughes didn't have a sick brother he probably doesn't come to SLU. Heck, how many years did Charlie refuse to recruit big men until he got Heinrich? SLU was 15-16 in Chalrie's last year and he sulked away. His good run was over and the program didn't get to build on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 Let's see, Lorenzo was: 19-14 17-14 15-16 You don't think another year of sinking with his own talent would put him on the hot seat? I don't get why Lorenzo is lionized by some people on here. He was just OK at SLU, end of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Never really bought into his improving the program. Yes, he got some big name type interested but never closed the deal. Then when he leaves we lose 3 of his recruits and two incoming frosh. Will always tip my hat to UB for at least putting a team on the court that year, a team that went to the NIT. I thought we may be on to something after that year, but, alas, fooled again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 >so the started over basically when they got the new coach, >jeter. isnt that what footes, me and a lot of others are >saying? a new coach is no guarantee for success and more >likely means starting over again. No, Footes said the previous coach didn't leave anything for next coach to work with. Bruce Pearl left a great team for Rob Jeter. That is what I am saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 Where are you? Bruce Pearl did well for Bruce Pearl, not UW-M. He left because the cupborad was going bare and he had a chance to jump ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I went back and read that thread and I just don't see this so-called kool-aid groundswell for a big-name coach. There certainly is a sentiment for "a better" coach, but not necessarily a big name. Your strawman doesn't fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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