SLU's 4 curse continues...

[slu72]

Reading the thread below, you come away with:

1.) HD and Obi are not ready according to those who have seen them practice. Not even ready to play against UMSL and Quincy.

2.)How ready will AK be for D-1 ball when he returns? A freshman who misses six weeks of practice? Also, many have said he's not the immediate answer. Lump him in with HD and Obi. 3 freshman projects at the 4.

3.) This leaves JJ the sole survivor. Given his resume, what leads us to believe he's seen the light and can be the guy to provide 25-30mpg of solid play at the 4> Hell, make it 20 mpg. He's been here 4 years, and in 3 years of playing he's never done it except for a few games.

The above is based on what's been reported by posters attending practice, except for my opinion on JJ. Conclusion: LM will be our 4, JJ plays a spot role, and we get to see more of the twin towers. UB still has not resolved the 4 situation either through recruiting or player development.

[AlumniFan]

With all due respect, why don't you wait for the results of a few games before posting this kind of negative stuff. I do not read the board that often, but everytime I do, you seem to be questioning the team's ability or the coaches or something. SLU isn't perfect and no one said it was, but the constant negativism from some posters is depressing.

You say you are posting based on what was posted below, so why repeat it?

Sorry, but I just don't get the negativism. For the first time in a long time, the general public is pretty darn positive about the Billikens, but if you read this board, at times, you would think that we were picked last in the Everglades Swampland JUCO Conference.

"A strong man stands up for himself; a stronger man stands up for others." - Ben

[Sheltiedave]

SLU 72, chill out, dude. The situation gets resolved by playing games and having injured players return to play.

Brad and staff have addressed the need by getting additional 4s into the pipeline. Based on weightroom work, Luke dedicated himself to riveting on 15 pounds of muscle, and it shows. He will be an undersized bulldog if he has to man the 4. AK is the B10 prototype 4, wanting to bang and muscle bodies in the paint. HD is the active athletic 4 we have been seeking forever. JJ is JJ, an enigma wrapped in a puzzle surrounded by mystery contained in an amorphous cloud of molecules. In his final year, I'll take whatever he gives and call it even.

Developing a PF takes two to three years, and I'll say the staff is one for two with Luke and Justin, at this point. Unfortunately for us, the successful development is limited by physical stature.

As a note, there are a number of quicksilver PGs in the A10 this year, and DP will get a lot of PT. If his shot returns, TL will ease the rebounding burden on the PF(again) and we will have a speed finisher running a wing on the break.

[slu72]

I pick them to go 23-12...that's negative? I think we're uspsetting UNC....that's negative? I think we're dancing....that's negative? I've always thought LM would be the option at the 4 for the reasons stated in the above post, which come from the people observing practices. I'm not making any negative judgements on Obi, AK, or HD. They are what they are...freshmen who need work. Would we like to have got reports that one of them was the next Thomas clone. Sure, but they aren't. And UB's not going to start them, no way, no how. I'd love to see JJ breakthrough, but you go by what you've seen. I don't think we lose all that much with LM at the 4 given our alternatives. I still think we can run with LM. We can win with LM. I do think in certain games will see more of BH, which I happen to like, see the Charlotte game last year, the kid made a difference. He altered their inside game. I've never posted anything negative about LM or BH, whereas even some of the Kool Aid clubbers think LM's too small and BH is a stiff. Would we all like to see a guy at the 4 who we know is not a question mark, who we know is a proven contributor? Yeah, only for about the last 20 years. Face it, we don't have one, and it'a a bit of a weakness....that's all I was saying. If it's a negative fact it's not my fault. I'd like to know when it became a mortal sin on this board to post objectively? Will someone please answer that?

[ACE]

>I pick them to go 23-12...that's negative? I think we're

>uspsetting UNC....that's negative? I think we're

>dancing....that's negative? I've always thought LM would be

>the option at the 4 for the reasons stated in the above

>post, which come from the people observing practices. I'm

>not making any negative judgements on Obi, AK, or HD. They

>are what they are...freshmen who need work. Would we like to

>have got reports that one of them was the next Thomas clone.

>Sure, but they aren't. And UB's not going to start them, no

>way, no how. I'd love to see JJ breakthrough, but you go by

>what you've seen. I don't think we lose all that much with

>LM at the 4 given our alternatives. I still think we can run

>with LM. We can win with LM. I do think in certain games

>will see more of BH, which I happen to like, see the

>Charlotte game last year, the kid made a difference. He

>altered their inside game. I've never posted anything

>negative about LM or BH, whereas even some of the Kool Aid

>clubbers think LM's too small and BH is a stiff. Would we

>all like to see a guy at the 4 who we know is not a question

>mark, who we know is a proven contributor? Yeah, only for

>about the last 20 years. Face it, we don't have one, and

>it'a a bit of a weakness....that's all I was saying. If it's

>a negative fact it's not my fault. I'd like to know when it

>became a mortal sin on this board to post objectively? Will

>someone please answer that?

The witch hunt going after 72 is ridiculous, but not surprising. You better watch it or you're gonna be labeled part of the "hate the Billikens first" crowd. I don't know how anybody can argue with your premise that the 4 spot is a question mark at this point. We all want that question to be answered by somebody or a combination of players, but I'm not sure why it can't be talked about. I'll add that I would've felt a lot better if we had landed a solid juco 4 last recruiting period. Since I've been following SLU, there haven't been many freshmen 4s who have stepped in and made significant contributions.

[billiken_roy]

i too will defend slu72 on this issue.

i am fearful of the current state of the power forward position as well. losing the two players we thought would man the spot and then surprisingly moving luke back there after coach soderberg told us that luke shouldnt be there indeed gives any rational thinking person who hasnt seen it for themselves cause for questions and apprehension.

now if luke after two weeks of practice has convinced coach soderberg he could be the reincarnation of donnie dobbs or jeff harris or some facsimile, hey, i'm all for that. and as many have pointed out, the conference season is still two months away and a lot can happen including getting health between now and then.

that all said, imo this year hinges as much on a fantastic pre-conference performance as it does on the conference. if we can get to january with only one or two losses imo we will be on the verge of breaking into the top 25 and we will be in a great position to make the ncaa tourney. if we get to january and are hovering around 500, guess what, we just put all our eggs into winning the conference tourney.

[VTIME]

>Reading the thread below, you come away with:

>

>1.) HD and Obi are not ready according to those who have

>seen them practice. Not even ready to play against UMSL and

>Quincy.

>

>2.)How ready will AK be for D-1 ball when he returns? A

>freshman who misses six weeks of practice? Also, many have

>said he's not the immediate answer. Lump him in with HD and

>Obi. 3 freshman projects at the 4.

>

>3.) This leaves JJ the sole survivor. Given his resume, what

>leads us to believe he's seen the light and can be the guy

>to provide 25-30mpg of solid play at the 4> Hell, make it 20

>mpg. He's been here 4 years, and in 3 years of playing he's

>never done it except for a few games.

>

>The above is based on what's been reported by posters

>attending practice, except for my opinion on JJ. Conclusion:

>LM will be our 4, JJ plays a spot role, and we get to see

>more of the twin towers. UB still has not resolved the 4

>situation either through recruiting or player development.

Actually, JJ was just starting to breakthrough when he was removed from the starting lineup last season. He had the big 12 and 8 game against Gonzaga, then followed that up with 10 and 8 against Chicago State. Then I think he started maybe one more game and then Luke was inserted. I really never understood why he was pulled.

[Billiken Rich]

It would be nice to have a non-handwringing post more than once per year or at least quarterly.......

[Billiken Rich]

JJ OBVIOUSLY didn't keepget with the program.

[Sheltiedave]

Ace, give me a frickin break! "Chill out, dude" becomes a witch hunt?

I look at the season like I approach work. I would love to have 10 McD AAs sitting on the bench, but we have who we have. We have to win with our players and our time, and bitchin is just that.

I complain also at times, but I won't moan about where I sit at the arena, or how cold the beer is.

Some people do all their bitchin and moaning where it is least effective - here - and never talk to the AD or coaches, where organizational change is leveraged.

Read 72's forecast and then read his thread starter. It is a textbook example of the term "cognitive dissonance."

[ACE]

>Ace, give me a frickin break! "Chill out, dude" becomes a

>witch hunt?

>

>I look at the season like I approach work. I would love to

>have 10 McD AAs sitting on the bench, but we have who we

>have. We have to win with our players and our time, and

>bitchin is just that.

>

>I complain also at times, but I won't moan about where I sit

>at the arena, or how cold the beer is.

>

>Some people do all their bitchin and moaning where it is

>least effective - here - and never talk to the AD or

>coaches, where organizational change is leveraged.

>

>Read 72's forecast and then read his thread starter. It is a

>textbook example of the term "cognitive dissonance."

It seems you are bitchin about somebody who is bitchin. This is a message board. Since when has some bitchin' not been allowed? This should be a place to have a little debate.

You stated that it normally takes 2-3 years for 4s to develop. I completely agree with that, which is why I'm critical that we have 3 freshmen at the position, rather than adding a juco. I hope I'm alllowed to express that opinion without being labeled somebody who "******* and moans."

[StLouBlue]

If I remember correctly, LM was healed from his foot injury and was earning time from his practices. Also while JJ had some good numbers in the games, he was also making mistakes on both offense and defense from what I can remember from back then. In other words, once LM was healthy enough to play more minutes, he took them from JJ. I think Brad said something along the lines that the team seemed to play better with LM in the lineup.

[Sheltiedave]

In my initial post, NO WITCH HUNT AND NO BITCHIN. Just the truth - let them play the games.

I se the glass as half full, even with the injuries. I see writers and coaches giving Brad and staff a tip of the cap this season, and I like seeing many people outside the program respecting us for being an honest and clean program in Missouri, even honest to a fault. I see my own posts generally being positive, even to a fault. I like to present the university, and its sports program, as a positive.

Others often don't.

[ACE]

>In my initial post, NO WITCH HUNT AND NO BITCHIN. Just the

>truth - let them play the games.

>

>I se the glass as half full, even with the injuries. I see

>writers and coaches giving Brad and staff a tip of the cap

>this season, and I like seeing many people outside the

>program respecting us for being an honest and clean program

>in Missouri, even honest to a fault. I see my own posts

>generally being positive, even to a fault. I like to present

>the university, and its sports program, as a positive.

>

>Others often don't.

There's certainly nothing wrong with being positive and you weren't as harsh on 72 as some others have been. I'm more optimistic about this team than I have been in several years, but not everybody thinks alike. If people want to express some unease about the 4 position, I think that's perfectly reasonable. There still are some questions surrounding this team. Fortunately, the games are right around the corner and we will start to get some answers as the season unfolds. If people want to speculate about potential deficiencies with this team, so what. Let them. This would be a very boring board if everybody thought the same way.

[RealisticBilliken]

I have to agree with SLU72, along with most sane Billiken fans. Its this type of posting from Sheltiedave that really upsets me - blind optimism. Our 4 position is a MAJOR MAJOR problem, and even the biggest of Bills fans have to admit that. LM is NOT the answer at 4, and HD, AK, and Obi are unknowns. JJ has had 4 years to prove himself, and what's he done? Nothing. To tell SLU72 to "Chill out" and put him down for expressing his view (which happens to be correct) is just ignorant. While everyone appreciates a Bills fan, please see things more objectively next time you post.

RealisticBilliken forsees a solid campaign, maybe reaching the NCAAs with a A-10 championship appearence. Otherwise, there's too many questions outside of IV, TL, and KL. GO SLU!

[brianstl]

That is a solid campaign? We haven't won a regular season conference championsip since 1971. We have been to only 6 NCAA Tournaments in our history. That would be an outstanding season historically, not solid. If that is your opinion of a solid season for this program then maybe you should change your handle to UnrealisticBilliken.

[billiken_roy]

did you really describe someone with "cognitive dissonance"?

now i have to get out a dictionary.