Billiken Law Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/spo...ges/6837452.htm And this for those who say Marquette is making a big mistake. Think about it this way, MU has a huge presence on the East Coast in terms of alumni and general fan base (thank you Al McGuire). This will further help them in terms of recruiting students from the east coast (as it has tremendously helped Dayton and Xavier when they moved to the A-10) and allow Marquette greater access to the east coast media market, which basically drives sports coverage in the US. Secondly, it gets them access to a superior ESPN television contract (Big Monday) then they have now. Third, even when the conference splits (and we know it will happen) MU has an established conference that will not have to wait for an automatic bid as most new conferences do. From my Marquette point of view, being in a conference of DePaul, ND (assuming ND doens't join the ACC which I just don't see happening) Georgetown, St. John's, Villanova, Seton Hall, Providence is a better arrangement than they have now with CUSA. You have in that group teams in major media markets, schools with a similar academic philosophy which will level the playing field in terms of recruiting and teams whom have all made Final Four appearances in the last 20 years (save DePaul and ND - losers!). Plus, you have stability, something MU has never had in their conference affiliation days. When the split occurs a few years down the road one team will likely be added. I wouldn't be surprised if that's Xavier. In fact, I think Xavier should get the invite over DePaul but the Chicago market is too tempting for the Big East to pass up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I agree with you 100% that Marquette/DePaul to Bigger East is a good deal for them. I would also want to note that this inherently means it is bad (but not earth shattering) for SLU. They have a ties to DePaul and Marquette now and those will be mostly lost. I think your addition of stability as a factor is putting the cart WAY, WAY ahead of the horse. The Bigger East made a decision to try to assuage a lot of different interests and different types of schools (and different geographies) in order to create a behemoth. That is a very fragile equilibrium rooted in a share of BCS cash/NCAA tourney cash. The ACC may once again raid a Bigger East football team, details and logistical realities will pop up, etc. >Plus, you have stability, >something MU has never had in their conference affiliation >days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 the reason the a-10 deal makes more sense is the east/west divisions. without that, you are looking at massive travel costs visiting the east coast. i understand basketball will cover their costs, but i still dont see how it will be able to cover women's basketball, soccer, tennis, track, cross country, volleyball, men's golf, soccer, tennis, track, and cross country. forget about plane fares. think hotel rooms and food costs comparisons between new york vs midwest towns. now if marquette believes those massive additional expenses are worth it, good luck. if you ask me, the a-10 set up with a midwest division and an east coast division would have been the better compromise. still get an east coast presense, plus the travel is more reasonable with division heavy schedule that would be dayton, slu, xaiver, depaul and charlotte. your belief that after the split it will be easy to search out those mates later and match up may not be true. leaving old friends out to dry as marquette and depaul are doing now doesnt constitute definite future ally. there is just as much chance that they will stick marquette and depaul later for trying to amend their ways. i know i would. they wanted their exclusive east coast bedfellows now deal with it. better hope the upward arrow that marquette has been riding for the last 3 years doesnt turn on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Roy, the food cost is a non-issue. Each NCAA athlete receives NCAA regulated "meal money" regardless of the location of the travel destination. The hotels/motels costs are also a non-issue. Our student athletes will not be staying at nice hotels in Manhattan; they will be staying at hotels/motels in the smaller towns. The cost difference should be minimal. It is my understanding that the Billiken teams that travel by air typically fly chartered. If anything, the cost of a chartered flight to the east coast will be cheaper than a chartered flight to the deep south. The trips to the east coast may also be cheaper due to the proximity of the various schools. Well-scheduled road trips can also cover several conference destinations without going much out of the way. I would bet that the athletic department's overall travel budget would decrease with the transition from a deep south conference to a northeastern/midwestern conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Question for Billiken Law. You write, "When the split occurs a few years down the road one team will likely be added. I wouldn't be surprised if that's Xavier. In fact, I think Xavier should get the invite over DePaul but the Chicago market is too tempting for the Big East to pass up." So MU will not only depart now but later raid the A-10 for one of it's premier teams? You guys are cold. Also, where is the stability in a conference that knows it's going to break up? What if MU falls on hard times, i.e. a job Crean just can't pass up? Again, MU and DePaul should have hung tough, not with CUSA, but with the idea of starting a new conference altogether. And really what have schools like GU, Seton Hall, St.John's done lately? Yes, I can see where MU fans would be estatic today, but down the road, well....let's see where we are in 3-5 years. As for MU having a big alumni base on the East coast, is that speculation on your part or a fact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 This is pure speculation on Billiken Law's part. There is no credible information about Xavier leaving for the Big East in five years--just some wishful thinking on the part of Xavier and Marquette fans. When the Big East implodes, I would expect a new ten or twelve team conference with two divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 So MU will not only depart now but later raid the A-10 for one of it's premier teams? You guys are cold. -I think 9 teams is an ideal number for a basketball conference as you get to play everyone twice and get 16 conference games. No missing teams like you have in the Big Ten right now. So, it is speculation on my part that they would look to add one more team and honestly, I would hope it would be Xavier because I think Xavier and not DePaul would get the invite to the Big East anyway but the Chicago factor is driving that decision. Would be excellent if that were SLU. Personally, I wish SLU could come with MU and DePaul to the Big East. The ideal situation would be to take the Big East hoops schools, SLU, MU and DePaul, and add X, UD and St. Joe's. However, that isn't going to happen if for no other reason that you'd have to wait 4 years for the automatic bid and you'd have to negotiate new TV deals which means getting stuck with Friday night and Saturday morning games if you want to be on ESPN. This is called making the best of a bad situation and the reality of having to fend for one's self in this whole mess. And believe me, there is no Marquette fan that doesn't realize that this is happening at the perfect time for MU. Also, where is the stability in a conference that knows it's going to break up? -No need to worry about what conference you are going to be in and who you'll be with when the split comes (as we had now). What if MU falls on hard times, i.e. a job Crean just can't pass up? -Trust me, MU will be fine. If Crean was going to leave it would have been this past year. The connection he formed with McGuire will help keep him at MU for the long haul. Remember too, MU is paying him over $1 million a year now and there's plenty more where that came from. Again, MU and DePaul should have hung tough, not with CUSA, but with the idea of starting a new conference altogether. -See the above problems. Again, that would have been the ideal arrangement but it was just too difficult. This is making the best of a bad situation. And really what have schools like GU, Seton Hall, St.John's done lately? -A couple nice tourney runs the past few years. Better than what the current CUSA line-up can offer. As for MU having a big alumni base on the East coast, is that speculation on your part or a fact? -That's a fact. In the 70's MU drew heavily from New York because of McGuire. The NYC club is one of MU's biggest and the turnout for the Coaches v. Cancer game last year and a game at BC a few years ago was huge. On a personal level, when I was in Westchester a few years ago I went to a neighborhood bar to watch the MU/UMass game and asked the bartender to turn the game on, saying only "my alma mater is on ESPN2, can you put it on?" He asked what school it was and when I said "Marquette" he pointed out 3 MU alums among the 15 or so people in the bar and the photo of Al McGuire behind the bar. My loyalties are obviously split and I want the best for both schools. In a perfect world the "papal conference" would be a reality or at least SLU and MU would stay together (geography is SLU's biggest hurdle, IMO) but that isn't going to happen at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 "MU has an established conference that will not have to wait for an automatic bid as most new conferences do. From my Marquette point of view, being in a conference of DePaul, ND (assuming ND doens't join the ACC which I just don't see happening) Georgetown, St. John's, Villanova, Seton Hall, Providence " First of all to keep the Automatic bid, a conference must have eight continous members.......not six or seven Secondly why in the world would Notre Dame leave a conference with Syracuse, UCONN, Louisville, Cinci, Pittsburgh to go with the above six schools??? So in actuality if Marquette did jump they have to have a plan to deal with being in a six team conference in three years....ie add other schools, no that would not work, 18 19 teams..... This is not an offer that cannot be refused there are serious flaws that need to be addressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 basketbill said, "So in actuality if Marquette did jump they have to have a plan to deal with being in a six team conference in three years...." the message i got is that the basketball only big east schools vainly believe they can take whoever they want whenever they want down the road. i hope it bites them in the a$$. i am big on loyalty. obviously our brethern to the north is not. and again, i do not believe we would have done the same if in their position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobile-iken Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Roy, I am not 100% sure on the history here but didn't we kind of leave Xavier out in the cold when the GMC started, and didn't we leave Dayton out in the cold when CUSA started? Correct me if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentFLBilliken Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 You are definitely right in Xavier's case. I dont think SLU has played Xavier in any sport since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Dayton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 they would not have the automatic bid because they do not have the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 it was always my understanding that cincy insisted that xavier be left out in the cold on the gmc setup. gave an us or them ultimatum. then cincy did the same to dayton on c-usa. slu seeing the errors in their ways though on the xavier thing then agreed to continue to play dayton on a regular basis to try to make amends. but i seem to remember it was cincy that played the part of the bully. of course it is true that slu did not stand up for dayton and xavier either time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Marquette and Depaul are doing how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 >slu seeing the errors in their ways though on the >xavier thing then agreed to continue to play dayton on a >regular basis to try to make amends. I don't think we "saw the errors in our ways." It is my understanding that we agreed to play Dayton as part of a settlement over potential claims relating to the conference breakup. Several of the schools in CUSA agreed to similar arrangements as part of the settlement. The arrangement was was ultimately about money and self-interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted September 24, 2003 Author Share Posted September 24, 2003 you are correct. Same deal with Marquette and DePaul having to sign long term deals with Dayton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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