courtside Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 I disagree with Bonwich. Kids choose schools for a VARIETY of reasons. We are talking about two things here. 1) Having a high profile sports program can and HAS shown that a school can reach more prospective students if one didn't exist. It has been documented at different places that the quality of overall applicant has increased with some connection to it. ....and seperately take, say # of applicants....if it rises dramatically furing a several year period, and the school isn't admitting far more students...the sompetition for admisson increases. I know people at the schools mentioned and other possible case studies as well...and I can tell you some people who got in at another point in time would be hard pressed to do so now...if it was based on academic performance....the numbers have risen. 2) No one is saying that you have to have a successful high profile sports program to achieve in academics. What I was saying is that having a high profile successful athletic team that receives wide esposure, increases the possibilities of your applicant pool besides those people who choose base only on other factors. I would also argue that having a high profile sport can extremely increase the quality of a school in many intangible areas as well, besides the academic ones reported by universities. Sure, Harvard will always be Harvard, and Tennessee will always be UT....but there is a lot of merit and fact that can be attributed to certain places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Applicant/admitted numbers, 2002-2004 Year Applicants Admitted Enrolled ACT avg 2002 5,995 4,324 1,409 2003 6,405 4,500 1,373 2004 6,692 5,346 1,448 26.1 An unsubstantiated number on SLU's site claims "almost 8,000" applications for 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 This is probably the most interesting debate about the arena I have read. Very good points from quite a few people. I tend to side with those who feel the Biondi has done nothing but over promise and under deliver since day one when it comes to the arena project. Also, it's not like a new arena is going to just sit on campus and host events for free! It's going to save the school money when we cut ties with Savvis. It's going to give Brad and his staff more flexibility on scheduling which should allow for more attractive dates which means larger crowds. It will bring 10,000 people per night into the "jewel of midtown" to spend money on dinner and drinks and see first hand how nice the campus really is. And lets not forget it's supposed to be a "multipurpose" facility which means other events to bring in more dollars. This facility can do nothing but increase the schools reputation, stature, visability and improve alumni morale...................UNLESS they don't build it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Bonwich, When I was growing up, I wanted to go to Notre Dame more than anything. The year before I applied, my "stats" were right on average with most people getting in. Then Ty Willingham came and the football team went 9-2 and everyone thought that ND football was back. I then proceeded to not get into the University and the only person from my high school to get accepted there was a girl who got a 35 on her ACT (36=perfect). Alot of students at SLU in my class are here cause ND said no. In this case, sports played a huge role in bring in "smarter" students to the University of Notre Dame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 With all due respect, Nick, I was born in South Bend, the son of an ND alumnus and faculty member, son of a SMC chick, nephew of two more Domers. Two of my cousins are grads as well. So I know a little bit about that place as well. ND has been very selective for years -- including the Gerry Faust years. ND basketball was hot under Digger, yet I'm pretty sure applications didn't slack off when the basketball program fell to 2nd tier -- nor when Willingham didn't follow through on his initial good year. Again, only 10% of the country's high school seniors, by definition, are in the top 10% of their class. Sure, there will be minor defections based on any one school having a good year here and there, but I believe the college-application decision is only remotely affected by a given year's success in a given sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 >It's going to save the school money when we cut ties with >Savvis. No. Rental fees for 14 games at Savvis are much lower than annual operating costs of running and maintaining your own facility. >It's going to give Brad and his staff more >flexibility on scheduling which should allow for more >attractive dates which means larger crowds. Yes. >It will bring 10,000 people per night into the "jewel of midtown" >to spend money on dinner and drinks and see first hand how nice the >campus really is. No. Ask Eddie Neill, for example (a SLU grad who runs Cafe Provencal and who tried to run the Grand Bistro across the street from the Fox) how many current patrons of the Fox, Powell Hall, the Sheldon and other Grand Center venues actually spend any money at any restaurants in Grand Center. Grand Center has consistently added venues (and residents) for something like 20 years, but has never been able to sustain itself as a bar-and-restaurant destination, in no small part because of its predatory parking practices. >And lets not forget it's supposed to be a >"multipurpose" facility which means other events to bring in >more dollars. No. See top answer above. The Savvis Center loses tons of money. The Jones Dome loses tons of money. The Family Arena loses tons of money. There are numerous other venues for concerts within 15 blocks of the new arena. Unless they have minimal competition (see the Paige), arenas in general tend to be money pits. >This facility can do nothing but increase the schools reputation, >stature, visability and improve alumni morale... Yes. That's exactly what it is -- an amenity for the SLU experience. And that's what it needs to be positioned as, including the fact that amenities cost extra money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 1 Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 There is a place for academics and sports at SLU...What gave Notre Dame it's strong reputation?...Football certainly helped them...It is difficult to measure but cannot be denied by anyone with an open mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Actually, there are some chairs that were announced a while back and have not been funded yet by donations. If you've got $500,000, you could name your OWN chair and then teach at a real school!! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 in terms of ability to raise funds. No, it won't be touched for this project. However, it does demonstrate potential to raise funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Bonwich, while admittedly not knowing the particulars of the Bills lease agreement with the savvis, I would be inclined to believe that when you combine increased ticket prices, increased attendance, parking and concessions that SLU will make out much better with their own building than they are currently. In regards to local establishments reaping benefits of increased traffic to the midtown area, I don't think you can compare Powell and Fox crowds to sports crowds. For one, I think sports crowds are much more likely to stick around after the games, especially weekend games, and have a drink or two. I can tell you that Vito's does well for soccer games, and is VERY excited about the possible draw from a basketball crowd 3 times larger. While I know of a few places that have fopped in Grand Center, remember Dukes, I think that the university should lead the charge in helping to develop the area around the new arena and make it a place people will want to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Kappy - you are correct about the need for people to step up and provide more entertainment places in the area. Before you write off the Fox and Powell crowd, many do not stay around because there is not really anything that stays open in the area. If a few would be available then I think a good number would stay around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Point taken. I know that the University, particularly Fr. Biondi has a large say when it comes to property changing hands in the midtown area. The school should embrace and encourage restaraunts and bars around campus and especially around the new arena and I hope that is the case. I have watched to many places meet their maker at the hands of the mighty SLU in an effort to have an alcohol free campus. Clarks, BBC (and 3 subsequent attempts with different names), Bullfeathers. At least Humps and Vito's are still alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 What exactly is going on with BBC? I can't believe another bar hasn't opened up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 and invite drinking and driving rather than have establishments nearby to serve to the over 21 crowd. It's been that way for 15 years or more. No excuses for drining and driving, just stating the obvious that it would be better for students to be able to walk to places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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