Is SLU recruiting Leon Powell, Bobby Hill?

[Nate Latsch]

I hope the world doesn't end by me posting this, but I agree with Problack on this.

I think Matt Lawrence would be a great addition to the SLU basketball team. He has probably the best consistent shot from outside the 3-point arc that I've seen and with his size he'd be a good fit at the small forward position.

I don't know if SLU was interested much when Lawrence committed to Mizzou -- which was his only "offer" at the time -- but I think he would fit in very nicely with Dwayne Polk, Tommie Liddell and Kevin Lisch. Lawrence would be the best 3-point shooter on the team and would probably get a lot of good looks with those guards on the floor.

- Nate

[billiken_roy]

lawrence is not a better shooter than kevin lisch nate.

[cheeseman]

Nate, I have it on reliable information that Matt really wanted to attend MU and that even if other schools had offered he was more interested in going to MU. The fact that he will get to play at MU is a major plus for him. The real question now is that he on an academic scholarship with the promise that he would earn an athletic scholarship the next year - this could be very problematic for him because the promise is from Quinn. If Quinn leaves for whatever the reason after next, Matt has nothing at MU. The kid did MU a big favor - he clearly could have gotten an athletic schollie to a decent school - and now due to all the other issues around the program, he may very well find himself screwed.

[slufanskip]

There aren't many D1 players that could play for top 50 D1 programs in D2,3, or NAIA. Hell I started for USAF Base teams and beat Division III and NAIA teams ... and during my best days I couldn't carry the jock of a player like DC or AD. Are there some players that could possibly play for the lowest tier of DI programs ... maybe, but not many.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[UE_BBALL]

Gordon was a dominant high school player.

>One of the better bigs to come out of St. Louis in sometime.

> He signed with Illinois State and the rest is history.

Yes, Gordon is history, as he got kicked out of Illinois St. for academic reasons.

[Sheltiedave]

VTime,

whether you are Problack or not, you do have the same fixated agenda. I don't think anyone would fault you for wanting the Vashon players to succeed in bball, college, and afterwards - I just think you are sometimes even more off in your assessment of player abilities than I was in predicting a Bills slot in the Big Dance last year:o

I enjoy reading your posts and seeing differing points of view, but I don't think presenting an agenda that SLU should only recruit Vashon players and/or black players from St. Louis is in anyone's best interest.

I would like to see SLU field a team with regional players with a strong St. Louis cadre, and have a team that is the top two in the A10, and a strong threat to go deep in the tourney every year.

I think your agenda would make the makeup of the team and consistent success on the court to be mutually exclusive elements, with the modern NCAA recruiting.

[billiken_roy]

oh my goodness. if he couldnt make it there how in the world would he have survived at slu. of course bernie m will be telling everyone about it i am sure.

[VTIME]

I have no agenda about SLU only recruiting Vashon players or black players. If you read my posts I was upset that they didnt land the Oppland's or Matt Lawrence also. No agenda, just wondering why SLU doesnt have a pipeline with a local powerhouse like Vashon that's only 4 blocks from campus.

[VTIME]

He probably would've had the same kind of career at SLU that Justin Tatum had. Solid, but unspectacular. I followed Tatum's career after SLU and he ended up using his final year at McKendree where he was the player of the year in the conference and led them to the final four. And he got to play for the winnningest coach in college basketball history.

[billiken_roy]

problack, the point is, the billikens were obviously correct in not recruiting gordon. not only did he not have the credits to get into a school like slu, even after finding a school that had the ability to accept his academic records, he apparently didnt have the drive to succeed academically. if i was a vashon fan or parent, why arent you questioning why your high school has such a horrible track record academically after high school?

[billiken_roy]

because they cant stay academically eligible is the easy answer. the one that was apparently academically and athletically superior, dwayne polk, is a billiken.

[VTIME]

because most of that is recent. They had 10 guys go to college off that 88 team alone, and they werent victims of academic problems. Its not the school, its the players drive. The students who are driven like Polk, McKinney will handle both schoolwork and basketball, the one's who come to Vashon simply for basketball wont succeed after Vashon if they decide to go to college at all. The environment most of the Vashon kids grow up in is not very conducive to learning. The students who are driven that currently go there like Hill 3.8 G.P.A or Washington 4.0 GPA will likely succeed. The one's who dont take school seriously wont. Another thing you have to remember is that college isnt for everybody. Dont get me wrong there are a lot of fine students at Vashon and a lot of good people too. Did you guys read about the recent protest the Vashon students had for the suspended teachers.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stor...16?OpenDocument

Students with a purpose will succeed, those who have no direction and/or a strong family unit will not. I wish all the Vashon kids could have a nice family surrounding and strong fatherly influence like Kevin Lisch has. but they dont. Its not impossible to succeed in a single parent home, but its definitely not the ideal situation. When you grow up poor, lots of people are used to being poor and think thats the way things are supposed to be. Its all they've ever known. Not making excuses, but its the students and the environment, not the school. Vashon's class of 2006 has its grades together with Hill and Washington. And William Franklin, older brother of Vashon forward Brian Roach is making sure Roach takes care of business in the classroom as well.

[VTIME]

that was the case in the past, but what about class of 2006 where Hill and Washington are already academically eligible and Roach is getting there.

[billiken_roy]

dont you think it is time for administrators to take a harder line on the student athletes academically? if they come from a poor background or a one parent home where supervision isnt the best, yet the student athlete has the athletic ability to succeed on the next level like gordon did or shelton did, why isnt the school recognizing that here is an opportunity for this kid to get out and making sure they get the chance to maximize that opportunity by getting it together academically? i just dont understand how irons cant see that.

[billiken_roy]

for them the question will be if they are better fits for the billikens on the court than other potential recruits. we heard for months how coach soderberg was dying to add a tall wing that was aces shooting the three. obviously with his maguire recruiting that was true. maguire fit the slot he wanted to fill. i believe one of the other two 2006 recruits will be an inside player. that leaves out the vashon players. there is one more scholarship to give, and that will likely go to a guard/wing. if leonard is academically on pace to graduate, it is my guess he is the first choice.

[VTIME]

I agree with you that something needs to be done, but what? And I think this an across the board problem among city schools. Why arent our kids driven to go to college and equipped with the tools needed to succeed in college. I know one problem is funding, but theres much more to it than that.

[VTIME]

Leonard isnt. Hill is! Watts is also!

[billiken_roy]

what about the post we saw earlier in the week where a supposed vashon teacher said that grades were changed on basketball players? whether that was true or not, makes one wonder how serious vashon is about doing the right thing. staying eligible for play at vashon isnt near as important as convincing these kids early on they have to be students first. that attitude is needed to have any success in college and it might as well be drilled into them at age 14 as try to fix it 4 years later. regardless of the home environment, it needs to be tougher at school

[ACE]

>for them the question will be if they are better fits for

>the billikens on the court than other potential recruits.

>we heard for months how coach soderberg was dying to add a

>tall wing that was aces shooting the three. obviously with

>his maguire recruiting that was true. maguire fit the slot

>he wanted to fill. i believe one of the other two 2006

>recruits will be an inside player. that leaves out the

>vashon players. there is one more scholarship to give, and

>that will likely go to a guard/wing. if leonard is

>academically on pace to graduate, it is my guess he is the

>first choice.

Roy, even with Maguire on board, won't we have three more scholarships available next year? ... Four total.

[VTIME]

I agree, but I dont think that guy is a Vashon teacher and I dont believe a student's grades were changed. The team has nearly 20 players, Irons is not afraid to lose a player to grades and wouldnt have someone's grades changed. He benched Havard McLemore all season for disciplinary problems. Havard, the 6'3 sophomore was supposed to be the 6th man this season. McLemore is supposed to be the second best player in Vashon's 2007 class, but Irons didnt hesitate to bench him. If you remember Irons did what he called "giving a glimpse of the future" in the 2004 state semifinal game where he played the four freshman 6'7 Raymond Harrell, 6'7 Leon Powell, 6'3 Havard McLemore and 5'10 Donald Davis alongside sophomore James Washington for most of the fourth quarter. If he'll bench him ,he wont change anybody's grades. I'll go ahead and say it now Vashon will win the 2006 Class 5 state title.

With a starting lineup that will probably look like this, who in the state can matchup.

C Benjamin Adams 6'8

PF Raymond Harrell 6'7

SF Leon Powell 6'7

SG Bobby Hill 6'6

PG James Washington 5'9

If Irons opts to go with the experienced lineup due to lack of progression by the other 2007 bigs the lineup will be:

C Powell

PF Roach

SF Hill

SG Davis

PG Washington

but Irons wants last season to be the last time Leon lines up at the center position. He doesnt even play center on the Gameface 16's AAU team.

[billiken_roy]

the fact that very few vashon players are ever academically disciplined tends to make me think that there is some kind of "leniency" towards student athletes at vashon. especially when you hear about all the academic problems they have after high school. the parents and boosters of vashon should be demanding academic integrity and higher standards rather than worrying about winning another state title. only then are they really looking out for the best interests of these kids.

[billiken_roy]

we only lose drejaj and newborne and have clarke's to replace. i think only three.

[ACE]

The way I figured it is we currently only have 11 players on the roster. We lose Drejaj and VN so we're down to 9. Then we add McGuire and three more to get to 13. Unless I'm missing somebody, we currently have 11 on the roster for 2005-06, correct?

[billiken_roy]

00 Dwayne Polk G 5-9 160 FR St. Louis

3 Danny Brown G 6-4 200 FR Houston, TX

15 Ian Vouyoukas F 6-10 270 SO Athens, Greece

20 Anthony Drejaj G 6-2 205 JR West Orange, NJ

23 Justin Johnson F 6-8 230 SO Merrillville, IN

32 Luke Meyer G 6-5 200 FR Washington, MO

33 Vas'Shun Newborne F 6-6 220 JR Natchez, MS

44 Bryce Husak C 7-0 260 FR Mt. Vernon, IA

kevin lisch

tommie liddell

obi ikeakor

drejaj and newborne will leave that will leave 4 for next year. i stand corrected. thanks ace!

[VTIME]

The kids have to want it too. When you're in the national polls and hearing your name on the radio and treated like a celebrity around campus, a lot of kids think "they've made it." They feel like thats the highlight of their life. Someone needs to tell them differently. I agree with you on that. The kids also know that they can always go to JUCO play 2 years get an associate degree and be done with college. All is not lost for Lorenzo Gordon. He has a degree and he showed the world what he could do this past season at Ill State. Perhaps he could've averaged 20 and 9 next season and been a late second round pick, but that's all speculation. He can still transfer to a D2 or NAIA school and be eligible immediately. He can go overseas and make a lot of money or he could put that Associate Degree to good use. You guys look at him failing academically as a bad thing, but when you try something, there's always a chance you can fail, but if you dont try you'll never know, and he gave it a 3 year try. With all the Vashon kids not going to college, at least he put in the hardwork to get back to D1 level basketball and excelled for his brief tenure there to the tune of a 1st team all-conference selection. I'm not disappointed at all.