rhagolf Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Just a question, which might be like the chicken and the egg. Can SLU recruit real athletic players from high school or JUCO, knowing that Brad's style is defensive, slow it down? Or, because we don't recruit these kind of players, we must play this type of game. And, if that is the case, are we just in a never-ending spiral? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenbooster Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I do think Brad might have difficulty recruiting running type players if the running players he now has (DP) aren't allowed to push the ball upcourt and put pressure on the defense quickly. He doesn't have a full contingent of team mates to implement that fully yet, but he should be allowed to develop his skills now. Thought there were some moments in the Dayton game that we saw glimpses of a running type game, when IO, VN, DB and Reggie played together, I think. The sad thing is that this year was such an opportunity to take the metro area by storm without hockey, Rams are down, no baseball...it would have been sweet. mhg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 "real athletic players?" what do you call polk, lisch and liddell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 p.s. if you cant see that there is a more concerted effort to get the ball down the floor now compared to the last two seasons, i am sorry. the problem is more that no one is making shots. as the talent continues to get better the pace will continue to get better. rarely do you see the billikens intentionally take the shot clock to the last second or walk the ball down the floor like was commonplace before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 b-roy "more concerted effort to get the ball down the floor now compared to the last two seasons" in my mind a concerted effort is more than just DP dribbling down the floor at a fast pace only to find he is the only player there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehms13 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I call them a Freshman and Prospects...College is a whole new ball game, Roy. U have to adapt to the team u have, no where but SLU will u see FRESHMEN taken over a team (except when there's only Freshman or underclassment to take over). Most schools u have to earn your starting spots in some collegiate sports play, u don't get a spot because u were good in high school. I will never understand that concept...I've beaten this horse to death..I can't wait until SLU gets to the A-10, I think maybe then U'll see what I'm saying. Next year will be a learning and rebuilding year..I guarantee it. This year, I don't know... we'll take the wins we get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 in the oakland game, anthony drejaj, dan brown and vashun newborne all missed layups off the break. that alone is probably more attempts at getting down the floor than we saw in the last two seasons. sorry, you are way off base. the billikens would never have even considered that in the last two seasons. walk it down. run the clock down then go to the basket with ten seconds left. we rarely do that anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 brehms, i agree polk isnt ready yet. but the point was that we have garnered the three best athletes in the st louis area for the most recent two recruiting classes. this poster seems to imply that coach soderberg cant get athletes to come to st louis, and i was pointing out that he already has. now if anyone wants to point out we havent gotten any decent inside players that i wont argue about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 In todays world ... many freshmen play important roles on teams ... and it especially true and the numbers increasing at the pt guard position. Drew Lavender at OU Chris Paul at Wake TJ Ford at Texas That is just 3 quick ones off the top of my head. There are many more. I think DP is clearly the guy for SLU at the point he can't change the team missing open looks. Now I also agree there are things he needs to improve on ... such as his shot selection and his shooting percentage from the 3. One of the reasons he is having trouble breaking down the defense off the dribble is they are not defending his 3 pt shot ... they are sagging off ... which makes it harder for him to get to the basket. Watch many of the good point guards ... everyonce in a while they will shoot a qiick 3 from the top of the key ... to bring the defense out ... they don't have to make them all just have the ability to, if you have shown you can make that shot the defense will have to respect that and stretch itself out ... as soon as DP shows the ability to do that his game should change ... as it changes so will Reg's open looks ... if DP learns when to try and finish at the rim or when to kick out. IMO he has not learned that, he frequently throws up a weak runner and that is because he is not getting all the way to the rim due to the defense sagging in on him ... If I had a chalkboard ... I could explain this better ... when the defense sags in you have to pick up your dribble sooner ... when it is stretched you beat the first man with the dribble ... you make the other defenders make decisions on whether to help out with you or to stay with their own man ... you have created numbers and changed the decision making process from you to them ... now as a point guard you react to their reaction ... you should either have a chance to pull up for a 10 footer, a drive to the basket, or an open man to kick out to. I know that was long ... but DP has to shoot better ... if he is just going to stand around and swing the ball around the wing in our offensive threat waiting for someone to break free off a pick ... we might as well have AD running the point ... We are wasting DP's greatest asset his quickness ... and in turn not getting our shooters like Reg good looks either. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhagolf Posted December 21, 2004 Author Share Posted December 21, 2004 Roy - I suppose my definition of "athletic" is a 4 or 5 who can go inside and bang with the likes of the Cincinnati's and Louisville's. The locally-produced and recruited talent plays 1, 2, or 3. If you get killed on the boards, it makes for a long 40 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 After reading my post ... it sounds like I am talking down to posters as if they have no clue how to play the game ... Sorry ... not meant that way ... just expressing an opinion on what I think needs to happen. I was not intending to disrespect anyone or their knowledge of the game Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 rhagolf, i totally agree with your thoughts on our inside recruits. i am mystified as to why we havent been able to recruit anything to brag about on the inside yet see the likes of hawaii, umw, oral roberts all come in here with extremely more talented inside players. imo, brad isnt trying to recruit inside athleticism. it appears to me he wants plodders or offensive linemen like inside players. i have never heard him say that, but i dont know what other explanation there is. johnson is the only thing remotely close to what you and i would like to see on our inside and he rarely has played in 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachstyles Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 >brehms, i agree polk isnt ready yet. but the point was that >we have garnered the three best athletes in the st louis >area for the most recent two recruiting classes. this >poster seems to imply that coach soderberg cant get athletes >to come to st louis, and i was pointing out that he already >has. > >now if anyone wants to point out we havent gotten any decent >inside players that i wont argue about Im guessing you consider luke meyer a better athlete than Xavier Price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehms13 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I actually followed that...sometimes breaking it down, helps me to understand better...I know it's nothing intentional of Reg not getting the ball..but if DP is never told what to do...how will he learn it...In practices..it's a different team than whats on the floor in games...I don't know why the team is good in practices and in the games freeze up... Anyone in SLU, am I the only one that picked up on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUAvtr Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Actually brehms, I kinda figured that. I watched some of the interviews on FSN of the players, and they said they thought they had a great practice and were ready for their next game. Only to them the next game just completely flop. I know it's a different game between practice floor and game time, but, it really shouldn't be. If they have all that intensity practicing, why not bring it EVERY game they play? I know the guys can do it, but why don't they? "It's a 106 miles to Chicago...we have a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.....HIT IT!" Blues Brothers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Roy, the weight room is what turns the plodders into nasty Big 10 centers and power forwards, with Illinois' Roger Powell being a perfect example of this year's amazing transformation. In college, if you throw twenty extra pounds of muscle on a skinny 6'8" forward, you suddenly have an all conference 2nd team or better paint player that can nuetralize a previous huge disadvantage. Before the season started, I was counting on JJ making a larger transformation than Isak has achieved. If this had occurred, we would have our current record close to reversed. 90% of college big men are grown within the program - there are very few Kalen Grimes to be plucked on the recruiting tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 judging by the way our "Plodders" have (not) transformed over the last year, i would be surprised if they are even in a weight room much. there is no way that vouyoukas should not be more defined than what he is at this point after 17 months of working in the weight room. hell he'd have been more defined by now if he would have just done 30 pushups before going to bed each night and doing the atkins diet for 6 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Since we lost our weight coach, does that have anything do with it? Ian should not have gone home this summer - he lost weight but the truth is it is hard to loose weight while lifting hard. What normally happens is you do not really loose weight but redistribute to muscle - my guess is he cut down on eating but did not do the consistent lifting necessary to develop. JJ's weight and muscle is not his problem, he needs some playing time to develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 I think some people should hang around a Gym ... 17 months for IV is nothing ... he has made significant improvement to his body for such a small amount of time ... As a basketball player he has to stay limber also ... he can't just bulk up. BH has also put on ... I would guess 15 lbs ... maybe Mr. Husak can help with that ... how much has Bryce put on? JJ also needs to continue to work ... he needs additional strength. These are all young guys ... Soph's all of them ... Relax ... none of the above mentioned guys are the reason we are having a bad year ... The ones we were counting on inside for the majority of minutes were TF, IO, and VN ... The only one of the 3 to be playing up to expectations is IO and he seems to lose focus and commit stupid turnovers ... please don't let him dribble the ball at the top of the key ... he walks every time ... put him down low. He needs to be told he cannot attempt to score if he has the ball from further than 10 ft out. Too many people seem to be taking the frustrations of a bad year out on the guys that were at best 7th man coming into the year. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Good point about IV and BH. You are correct it will take more time to show on the very tall players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 skip, after 17 months they should have shown way more physical change than they have. like i said, they would have shown more by now by doing 30 pushups before bed each night. if they truly are in the weight room on a regular basis than we need to find a new weight instructor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Brehms, I believe Brad's grand plan was to have a solid juco PG (Brandon Morris) in his senior year at SLU to run the team for the 2004-2005 season. Unfortunately, Morris needed to pass one class over the summer before the start of the 2003-2004 season, did not, and we find out that we lost our projected starting PG for the next season in August. Too late to get a replacement. Drejaj has a huge problem with ball security at the point and Brad (rightly in my mind, 22 TOs in limit minutes at PG this season) has determined to limit Drejaj's minutes at point for this reason. I would have liked to have seen Darren Clarke get a shot at PG. He's a sophmore who played sparingly last year mainly due to injury. He is a shooter as well as a solid ballhandler. Unfortunately, he was hurt again over the summer that hampered his play pre-season. I think he started the opening game in the Carribean that none of us were able to see nor hear on the radio, played about 15 minutes, and has been essentially banished to the bench for the rest of the season (1-5 from the field but with 2 offensive rebounds and a steal). Must have been a real horrible 15 minutes. Essentially, I think Polk ended up the starting PG by default. It's NOT the way Soderberg operates generally IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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