willie Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Last night pointed out our offensive problems. We need to shoot more 3's but have no inside game besides Milik. We only had eight attempts. Any decently prepared team will limit our attempts because our lack of post play. I would like to see us try to play more pressure defense and maybe get more fast breaks to help scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Last night pointed out our offensive problems. We need to shoot more 3's but have no inside game besides Milik. We only had eight attempts. Any decently prepared team will limit our attempts because our lack of post play. I would like to see us try to play more pressure defense and maybe get more fast breaks to help scoring. We actually had 16 attempts last night. They had 8. Watching the game, I thought it felt like we shot a lot worse than 4-16 from three. Also worth pointing out that zero of the 16 last night came from Yacoubou... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 You are correct but I still think my point is correct. Very few open looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 We actually had 16 attempts last night. They had 8. Watching the game, I thought it felt like we shot a lot worse than 4-16 from three. Also worth pointing out that zero of the 16 last night came from Yacoubou... I'd rather AY jack up a 3 than those circus layups that draw all backboard. Both have about the same chance to go in and one is worth more than the other. It's not just that AY has been disappointing. He just hasn't been very good. He's one of the least efficient players on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Crawford and Bartley have been better than decent in conference play. In fact, Bartley is hitting 48% from 3 in conference play. Bartley ranks 5th in 3pt shooting in A10 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Yeah, I gave Bartley credit for shooting over 40%. It was Roby, Crawford, and Gillmann I called merely decent. I think that's fair. All three are between 35% and 37%. (For what it's worth, Crawford is 37.5% in conference play, 37.1% overall. Yacoubou is actually shooting 40% on threes in conference play). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBills Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Interesting table: Crawford with very little touches in the attacking zone per game compared to the rest of the team Here's the link. Some good stuff here unless you don't like guys like Crawford or Gillmann. http://nationalsportsrankings.com/index.php?option=com_teamplayer Points per shot from the main rotation: Yarbrough - 1.32 Yacoubou - 1.14 McBroom - 1.23 Crawford - 1.44 Roby - 1.14 Bartley - 1.23 Gillmann - 1.24 Jolly - 1.36 Manning - 1.16 Really interesting stats. I prefer offensive efficiency stats like these. I agree with what you and others have said about Crawford needing more shots. And if some are arguing with you about why you keep saying more shots need to come from Crawford and less from Yacoubou - basically in a direct ratio - I'd point out that it's not like SLU is going to magically come up with 8 more possessions per game run them all through Crawford and in that way make up for the inefficiency from players like Yacoubou. The point is, if you want to use your average possessions per game wisely, less of them need to end with shots by an inefficient offensive player and more of them need to end with shots by an efficient one - whoever that may be. I see no point in defending Yacoubou for what he was supposed to be or what he could still be. We're playing with the talent that's showing up at the moment. One player at the 3 position is simply better offensively. Now, if one wanted to argue that Crawford's superior points per shot ratio is outweighed by his less effective defense, then that would be a decent case for using Yacoubou - and the only compelling one, in my opinion. But straight up, Yacoubou isn't doing it for us right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 So hsmith is saying that the person with the most points per shot should not get some shots/minutes from the person with the least points per shot? Just want to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I see no point in defending Yacoubou for what he was supposed to be or what he could still be. We're playing with the talent that's showing up at the moment. One player at the 3 position is simply better offensively. Now, if one wanted to argue that Crawford's superior points per shot ratio is outweighed by his less effective defense, then that would be a decent case for using Yacoubou - and the only compelling one, in my opinion. But straight up, Yacoubou isn't doing it for us right now. Crawford's lack of defense (and general lack of speed) has always been a big reason why he doesn't see the court more. I thought that was a given. That's one reason Yacoubou has been given a longer leash. But I don't think the relative difference in their ceiling/potential/overall talent level should be so cavalierly dismissed either, particularly in what has already been rebranded a "rebuilding" year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 So hsmith is saying that the person with the most points per shot should not get some shots/minutes from the person with the least points per shot? Just want to confirm. Actually, I said the exact opposite of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Crawford's lack of defense (and general lack of speed) has always been a big reason why he doesn't see the court more. I thought that was a given. That's one reason Yacoubou has been given a longer leash. But I don't think the relative difference in their ceiling/potential/overall talent level should be so cavalierly dismissed either. What have you seen on the court that says that Yacoubou has a much higher talent level and ceiling than Crawford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Actually, I said the exact opposite of that. So you agree that Crawford should start to get some of Yacoubou's minutes/shots. Good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Nope, I don't think he should start. But I did say I thought the results merited Crawford getting a few additional shots per game at the expense of Yacboubou. I still think Yacoubou is the overall more talented player and should still see more minutes than Crawford. I view Crawford as a useful role player and valuable source of offense off the bench, but (even on this offensively-challenged team) I do not see him as the kind of savior that some seem to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Nope, I don't think he should start. But I did say I thought the results merited Crawford getting a few additional shots per game at the expense of Yacboubou. I still think Yacoubou is the overall more talented player and should still see more minutes than Crawford. I view Crawford as a useful role player and valuable source of offense off the bench, but (even on this offensively-challenged team) I do not see him as the kind of savior that some seem to. What have you seen from Yacoubou that says he is the more talented player with the higher ceiling? All I've seen are all the stats I've presented that say that Crawford is a far more efficient offensive player. No one said Crawford is a star. He's not. But Yacoubou clearly isn't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The problem isn't Ash's 3 pt %. The problem is he is shooting 42% from the 2 and is second in attempts from 2 in conference games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 What have you seen from Yacoubou that says he is the more talented player with the higher ceiling? All I've seen are all the stats I've presented that say that Crawford is a far more efficient offensive player. No one said Crawford is a star. He's not. But Yacoubou clearly isn't either. I have seen Yacoubou do things that Crawford just can't. He can defend better, he can run the floor better, he can create his own shot better, and he can rebound better. I don't think anyone is assigning that last point the significance it deserves on a team that has had trouble rebounding almost all season. Yacoubou is one of the best rebounders on the team and Crawford is one of the very worst. And Yacoubou played barely a half season's worth of minutes spread out over the last three years. He might be a "veteran" in terms of age and time on D-1 rosters, but he didn't have all that awful much more actual playing experience than Crawford did prior to this year. If we're building for the future, Crawford has one more year of eligibility left than Yacoubou does, but I still think Yacoubou has a chance to be, if not a star, a better all-around player than Crawford is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 What have you seen from Yacoubou that says he is the more talented player with the higher ceiling? All I've seen are all the stats I've presented that say that Crawford is a far more efficient offensive player. No one said Crawford is a star. He's not. But Yacoubou clearly isn't either. He's the best bebounder on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The problem isn't Ash's 3 pt %. The problem is he is shooting 42% from the 2 and is second in attempts from 2 in conference games. The post where I addressed Yacoubou's 3P% was responding to jimbo's comments about team-wide and individual 3P%. I never said that was the only problem with his performance this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I have seen Yacoubou do things that Crawford just can't. He can defend better, he can run the floor better, he can create his own shot better, and he can rebound better. I don't think anyone is assigning that last point the significance it deserves on a team that has had trouble rebounding almost all season. Yacoubou is one of the best rebounders on the team and Crawford is one of the very worst. And Yacoubou played barely a half season's worth of minutes spread out over the last three years. He might be a "veteran" in terms of age and time on D-1 rosters, but he didn't have all that awful much more actual playing experience than Crawford did prior to this year. If we're building for the future, Crawford has one more year of eligibility left than Yacoubou does, but I still think Yacoubou has a chance to be, if not a star, a better all-around player than Crawford is. He can defend better - true but it's not as significant of a difference as many people think. Not that Crawford is good but Yacoubou gets beat very easily too often. He can run the floor better - what does that mean? He can create his shot better - who cares if it doesn't go in? He can rebound better - we definitely need that Crawford is better on offense. Yacoubou can defend better and rebound better. All of this is true. But Yacoubou takes far too many shots on offense - not just in relation to Crawford. You've seen a different Yacoubou than me if you think he can be a star. Maybe I'm just not seeing the same things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I'm not trying to be a dick here. Honestly I don't think you give Crawford enough credit and I probably don't give Yacoubou enough credit. The team isn't any good no matter how you slice it. I just want to see things changed up. Plus I'd rather debate these topics than debate whether Crews is the answer or whether McBroom is a true PG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 He can run the floor better - what does that mean? Not sure how else to say it. He is faster. Not just in terms of getting back in position on defense or on fastbreaks; he is just faster. Crawford is much more of a catch-and-shoot guy, which has its place, but he is really not all that similar to Yacoubou other than that they play the same position and are roughly the same height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The post where I addressed Yacoubou's 3P% was responding to jimbo's comments about team-wide and individual 3P%. I never said that was the only problem with his performance this year.My biggest problem isn't with Ash. It is with how he is used in the offense. His usage rate is way too high for what he presently brings to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 And I do think Yacoubou is better than he's been playing. But I also think you have to adjust to what you have at the moment. If Crawford is taking the most shots on the team or is your consistent leading scorer, you don't have a very good team. He's just not that good. But Yacoubou is taking a ton of shots and not making enough and we aren't very good. He needs to pick and choose his spots a lot better. I'll retire from this discussion now. Hopefully we win tomorrow and Yacoubou drops 26 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doowop Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 brianstl, on 30 Jan 2015 - 1:41 PM, said:My biggest problem isn't with Ash. It is with how he is used in the offense. His usage rate is way too high. For what he presently brings to the table. AMEN! He has been the biggest disappointment to me in terms of what I expected. But that's my fault for those expectations. He misses too MANY layups AND free throws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenboy Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 AMEN! He has been the biggest disappointment to me in terms of what I expected. But that's my fault for those expectations. He misses too MANY layups AND free throws. The kid can only get better with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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