HoosierPal Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Team rebounds are always listed on box scores. But I really never knew exactly what that was. Today I looked it up and found this answer, which doesn't make 100% sense. A team rebound is awarded when no individual secures the rebound of a missed shot. The statistic has little meaning -- its existence is primarily to ensure that the total number of rebounds equals the total number of missed shots, despite the fact that some shots don't have what one would normally consider a rebound. Some examples: The offensive team gets a team rebound when one of its players misses a shot at the buzzer. The defense gets a team rebound when a missed shot goes out of bounds without touching a player, and when the last free throw attempt in a sequence misses the rim. Either team can get credit for a team rebound when a missed shot goes out of bounds off a member of the other team. The first bullet is somewhat comical.....you get a team rebound if you throw up a 90 footer and it misses? That doesn't make sense. On the second bullet, it's a dead ball when the ball misses the rim, yet a rebound is awarded? I guess you need that to make the math work. Anyone have a better definition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 "Team" is one of our best rebounders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 A shorter (maybe not better) definition might be: "Any time a team secures possession of the ball after a missed field goal attempt without the ball being secured by an individual player." It's pretty much a dead ball situation. Airballs that go out of bounds, scrums for rebounds that become loose balls that go out of bounds, airballs on the second FT, etc. I honestly didn't know the first bullet, that the offensive team gets the team rebound for a missed buzzer beater. I thought that would be a defensive team rebound. One thing that isn't clarified - if the shot clock is winding down and a player attempts a shot but airballs it and the shot clock sounds, does that count as a FGA and defensive team rebound, or is it still considered a turnover? I would think the former, but that seems to contradict the logic from the first bullet about team rebounds going to the offensive team for missed buzzer beaters at the end of periods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 From what I understand, it all has to with an accounting like system. For every shot recorded, there has to be a rebound recorded. At the end of the game, the rebounds have to match the number of shots taken. It all has to balance on the scorer's sheet. So, there are going to be situations where a shot was taken, but a traditional rebound didn't happen thus the titles of "dead" rebounds and "team" rebounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 If a defender blocks a shot out of bounds, the offensive team gets a team offensive rebound. If a rebound gets fumbled out of bounds, the team awarded the ball gets a team rebound. A deadball rebound is awarded only on a missed free throw that is not in play (i.e., the first of two or the first two of three attempts); however, deadball rebounds don't count towards the teams' totals. A shot-clock violation counts as a turnover, and I'm pretty sure no field goal attempt or rebound is credited. As for the first bullet point, I think it would make more sense if the defensive team would be awarded a team rebound on a missed shot at the buzzer (but I'm not on the rules committee). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 "Team" is one of our best rebounders. That's only because we get a lot of shots blocked out of bounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 That's only because we get a lot of shots blocked out of bounds. That and the missed FTs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 If a defender blocks a shot out of bounds, the offensive team gets a team offensive rebound. This is as strange as the buzzer beater. So the offensive team gets 'rewarded' for having a shot smacked out of bounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 This is as strange as the buzzer beater. So the offensive team gets 'rewarded' for having a shot smacked out of bounds. ...and punished with a decreasing field goal percentage. If it counts as a shot attempt, but you don't "award" an offensive rebound, how would you account for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 That and the missed FTs. But the dead ball rebounds on missed initial free throws don't count towards team rebounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 There are enough missed FTs to go around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 ...and punished with a decreasing field goal percentage. If it counts as a shot attempt, but you don't "award" an offensive rebound, how would you account for it? This all stems from someone making a rule that says the amount of missed shots = amount of rebounds. Why? Does basketball have to be mathematically perfec? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 This all stems from someone making a rule that says the amount of missed shots = amount of rebounds. Why? Does basketball have to be mathematically perfect? Well, apparently it does (but not really*). I can't think of any sport that doesn't take its statistics very seriously. Football has tackles and assists, fumbles caused, etc. Basketball is probably less intricate, statistically, than football or baseball. Consider all of the putout and assist numbers for the various out possibilities in baseball. So, yes, basketball wants to cover all of the bases statistically, as well. *Nevertheless, college basketball isn't really quite as "perfect." At least a couple of times in the past several years, SLU has played a non-Div. 1 team in a regular season game that was considered an exhibition for the opponent — including this season's game against Rockhurst. The result and statistics count towards season and career totals for the D-I team but not for the other team. That irks me, frankly. While I'm sure the lower-level team would love to beat the D-I team, subconsciously their effort may have a ceiling. I mean, would you want to have a career game — like 30 or 50 points (or whatever) — only to have it not count? It's like playing junior varsity — no mention in the paper and the stats don't count. "I scored 27 against XYW State!" "What? The press guide and school record say your career high was 11 points." I think the NCAA needs to get rid of that mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zink Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Here's a very interesting article on the ontogeny of the basketball box score, with some details on team rebounds. Worth a read. http://grantland.com/features/dead-ball-rebounds-origin-college-basketball-rulebook/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Wow, that's an amazing (and rather long) read. I like the credit given to the ABA for starting to track steals, blocks, and some other stats, to differentiate between them and the NBA. Thanks for the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 It's even more amazing for its use of the word "ontogeny." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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