GOSLU68 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 see: http://www.topix.com/forum/source/chicago-...NS20BSPBCHEI/p3 if you don't have time the punch line is a poster supposing De Paul would be in the NCAA tournament if they had RM instead of Wainwright to recruit for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 see: http://www.topix.com/forum/source/chicago-...NS20BSPBCHEI/p3 if you don't have time the punch line is a poster supposing De Paul would be in the NCAA tournament if they had RM instead of Wainwright to recruit for them Steven A Smith suggested that Rick Majerus would be a name coach St. John's needs to compete in the Big East Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Steven A Smith suggested that Rick Majerus would be a name coach St. John's needs to compete in the Big East Rick would be, knowing his temperament and how he is with the lip, crazy to take the SJU job. NY press makes the STL press look like choir boys. He be in trouble in a New York minute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 see: http://www.topix.com/forum/source/chicago-...NS20BSPBCHEI/p3 if you don't have time the punch line is a poster supposing De Paul would be in the NCAA tournament if they had RM instead of Wainwright to recruit for them And they'd be wrong. I read those posts. They assume that Marquette has had way better success than DePaul because it is better at evaluating coaches, and when a coach leaves, they just find another good one, more so and better than DePaul and others. They think it is that simple. Marquette has and has had one of the top tier basketball budgets in the country, since Tom Crean was able to push for that. Marquette has open support from its President, alumni, other University Admin, all on the same page, committed to winning basketball. DePaul does not have the cohesiveness, support, facilities, allocated resources, just to name a few of many reasons why DePaul isn't successful. It isn't because they joined a tough league and hired the wrong coach. There is a LOT more to it than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Rick would be, knowing his temperament and how he is with the lip, crazy to take the SJU job. NY press makes the STL press look like choir boys. He be in trouble in a New York minute Majerus isn't going any farther away from his mother, family and friends than he is right now. It isn't even worth a thought or discussion. Might as well start saying Majerus to North Carolina. Majerus to North Carolina. Or you can say Majerus to Texas San Antonio, because they have some solid Texas Mex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Majerus isn't going any farther away from his mother, family and friends than he is right now. It isn't even worth a thought or discussion. Might as well start saying Majerus to North Carolina. Majerus to North Carolina. Or you can say Majerus to Texas San Antonio, because they have some solid Texas Mex. I don't think anyone was saying that Majerus is packing up and going to St. John's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 I don't think anyone was saying that Majerus is packing up and going to St. John's. I understand Al Maquire set the tone in Milwaukee long before Tom Crean and compared to De Paul playing off campus may be a long walk for Marquette but most students couldn't find the Eisenhower highway if they new the highway number posted on the signs to the suburbs. That is why we built on campus and have fire twirllers outside the doors at some of the games. And of course I could be wrong about which highway you take to see De Paul as last time I went I got lost and had good directions. I witnessed JJ's best game in a SLU uniform as we beat them for an away victory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I understand Al Maquire set the tone in Milwaukee long before Tom Crean and compared to De Paul playing off campus may be a long walk for Marquette but most students couldn't find the Eisenhower highway if they new the highway number posted on the signs to the suburbs. That is why we built on campus and have fire twirllers outside the doors at some of the games. And of course I could be wrong about which highway you take to see De Paul as last time I went I got lost and had good directions. I witnessed JJ's best game in a SLU uniform as we beat them for an away victory Maguire did win big and he's well respected for doing so. (the team still wears his name on their jerseys). However Al coached at a different time. He got a lot of NYC kids and city kids from other places, long before the Big East conference etc...but he was a winner and that is the point. If Marquette simply sat around with their Wespine comparable facility or worse for practice and training, if they didn't improve the school aesthetics, programs, prac facilities, resources, money, PR, marketing, ....if they didn't build long term relationships with key people, teams, and leagues, ...if they didn't have someone come in and win with less like an O'Neill....etc...well, DePaul won a lot too back in the day, back when times were different. DePaul however still to this day has not kept up with the times. New leagues, facilities, resources, marketing, management, commitment to winning and so on....Marquette fell behind the times in terms of resources and competing when Majerus was there and after....they then got people who could do more with less....then they re-upped their commitment to successful men's basketball and have even increased it over time to this day. DePaul has not done that. Plenty of credit for it goes to many places, including Tom Crean, among many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 Maguire did win big and he's well respected for doing so. (the team still wears his name on their jerseys). However Al coached at a different time. He got a lot of NYC kids and city kids from other places, long before the Big East conference etc...but he was a winner and that is the point. If Marquette simply sat around with their Wespine comparable facility or worse for practice and training, if they didn't improve the school aesthetics, programs, prac facilities, resources, money, PR, marketing, ....if they didn't build long term relationships with key people, teams, and leagues, ...if they didn't have someone come in and win with less like an O'Neill....etc...well, DePaul won a lot too back in the day, back when times were different. DePaul however still to this day has not kept up with the times. New leagues, facilities, resources, marketing, management, commitment to winning and so on....Marquette fell behind the times in terms of resources and competing when Majerus was there and after....they then got people who could do more with less....then they re-upped their commitment to successful men's basketball and have even increased it over time to this day. DePaul has not done that. Plenty of credit for it goes to many places, including Tom Crean, among many others. Crean was good Al Maquire was great; Dick Vitale just said basketball is the same today as 30 years ago; Al may have been gone already at that point but it is the difference between Maquire starting the ball rolling and Crean having it at least not stopped still. Maybe splitting hairs here but I used to have this argument when my older brother said Hop A Long Cassidy was not as good a cowboy as Tom Mix or even Bob Steele. He laughed because I said Hoppy was better than the singing cowboys Gene Autry and Roy Rogers. You may not know who they are and I don't know who the latest game heroes are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Crean was good Al Maquire was great; Dick Vitale just said basketball is the same today as 30 years ago; Al may have been gone already at that point but it is the difference between Maquire starting the ball rolling and Crean having it at least not stopped still. Maybe splitting hairs here but I used to have this argument when my older brother said Hop A Long Cassidy was not as good a cowboy as Tom Mix or even Bob Steele. He laughed because I said Hoppy was better than the singing cowboys Gene Autry and Roy Rogers. You may not know who they are and I don't know who the latest game heroes are. I didn't say Crean and Maguire were the same. Different eras, different times and Maguire accomplished more. However he often recruited guys from NYC for one example, and today the Big East is alive and well and the days of swooping in for those kids have been long over. It's a different time, and programs have to evolve over time and not get passed by. Crean helped ensure Marquette didn't get passed by, as did several others. It's much harder today to be a consistent top handful of teams in the country today than yesteryear. Much more parity, more leagues, etc...Marquette was at a pretty low point when Bob Dukiet was their coach...O'Neill, Crean, even the billiken board Mike Deane did a part along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 I didn't say Crean and Maguire were the same. Different eras, different times and Maguire accomplished more. However he often recruited guys from NYC for one example, and today the Big East is alive and well and the days of swooping in for those kids have been long over. It's a different time, and programs have to evolve over time and not get passed by. Crean helped ensure Marquette didn't get passed by, as did several others. It's much harder today to be a consistent top handful of teams in the country today than yesteryear. Much more parity, more leagues, etc...Marquette was at a pretty low point when Bob Dukiet was their coach...O'Neill, Crean, even the billiken board Mike Deane did a part along the way. we agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 And they'd be wrong. I read those posts. They assume that Marquette has had way better success than DePaul because it is better at evaluating coaches, and when a coach leaves, they just find another good one, more so and better than DePaul and others. They think it is that simple. Marquette has and has had one of the top tier basketball budgets in the country, since Tom Crean was able to push for that. Marquette has open support from its President, alumni, other University Admin, all on the same page, committed to winning basketball. DePaul does not have the cohesiveness, support, facilities, allocated resources, just to name a few of many reasons why DePaul isn't successful. It isn't because they joined a tough league and hired the wrong coach. There is a LOT more to it than that. i agree with courtside on this one. the sad thing is that far too many fans think all that needs to happen is to hire the coach. but if other changes dont happen, nothing will change substantially in the win loss columns. what rickma did that was most significant to slu is he got the school to open up the budget quite a bit. personally there is still a long way to go budgetwise imo, but if rickma would have just taken the exact same job that soderberg had things wouldnt be the same. that said, rickma would have never taken that job. and as courtside is saying, he wont at depaul either. same with st johns. so for that i thank slu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 i agree with courtside on this one. the sad thing is that far too many fans think all that needs to happen is to hire the coach. but if other changes dont happen, nothing will change substantially in the win loss columns. what rickma did that was most significant to slu is he got the school to open up the budget quite a bit. personally there is still a long way to go budgetwise imo, but if rickma would have just taken the exact same job that soderberg had things wouldnt be the same. that said, rickma would have never taken that job. and as courtside is saying, he wont at depaul either. same with st johns. so for that i thank slu. Roy and Court. Good posts. If I could just add, you're right in that RM would not have taken the job w/o the budget/open wallet/changes. But, by way of example, another proven coach with a winning record - Spoon - came to town and, while he had our best run in recent years, he practiced in West Pine, played our games off-campus, struggled to get the students to the games (yes students finally showed up during the good years and against the good teams - but not consistently against the bad teams and not the year after Larry) and did not put together back-to-back good years of recruiting. We then lost 2 really top flight people in Spoon and Debbie Yow largely because of budget, money and commitment to basketball and were not able to replace either of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Roy and Court. Good posts. If I could just add, you're right in that RM would not have taken the job w/o the budget/open wallet/changes. But, by way of example, another proven coach with a winning record - Spoon - came to town and, while he had our best run in recent years, he practiced in West Pine, played our games off-campus, struggled to get the students to the games (yes students finally showed up during the good years and against the good teams - but not consistently against the bad teams and not the year after Larry) and did not put together back-to-back good years of recruiting. We then lost 2 really top flight people in Spoon and Debbie Yow largely because of budget, money and commitment to basketball and were not able to replace either of them. I don't think Spoon and Debbie Yow left for the same reasons, at all. Spoon was ready to leave after his first good year with us if he got a better offer. Spoon did not recruit after larry. Spoon was burned out by the time he left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I don't think Spoon and Debbie Yow left for the same reasons, at all. Spoon was ready to leave after his first good year with us if he got a better offer. Spoon did not recruit after larry. Spoon was burned out by the time he left. They left at different times but believe both were tired of beating their heads against academic bureaucracy and begging for resources from a President who really wasn't interested in basketball back then. Don't get me wrong, Yow was in great demand was on her way to a BCS school (football & basketball) sooner or later but she got tired of the small minded SLU attitude. Spoon got frustrated at this as well so, IMO, they did leave for the same reasons. I never understood, though, why Charlie did so poorly - recruiting wise - after Larry signed. Just with him on the team (before he played his first game) we should have had recruits signing that Fall. I remember all of the interest but we did not sign guys that Fall. IMO, the loss of Yow and her being replaced by Woolard helped Charlie leave. Fr. Biondi should have paid Charlie what he wanted and broke ground on the new arena in the late 90's and Charlie would not have been so "burned out." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 They left at different times but believe both were tired of beating their heads against academic bureaucracy and begging for resources from a President who really wasn't interested in basketball back then. Don't get me wrong, Yow was in great demand was on her way to a BCS school (football & basketball) sooner or later but she got tired of the small minded SLU attitude. Spoon got frustrated at this as well so, IMO, they did leave for the same reasons. I never understood, though, why Charlie did so poorly - recruiting wise - after Larry signed. Just with him on the team (before he played his first game) we should have had recruits signing that Fall. I remember all of the interest but we did not sign guys that Fall. IMO, the loss of Yow and her being replaced by Woolard helped Charlie leave. Fr. Biondi should have paid Charlie what he wanted and broke ground on the new arena in the late 90's and Charlie would not have been so "burned out." Word in the AD at the time was Charlie would sign out to go recruiting and spend all of his time at one or the other of his condos. In other words he stopped doing his job and was eventually forced out-would have happened sooner if he wasn't so personable and well liked here in St. Louis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.