3star_recruit Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 Our strength of schedule is now 59, which is better than Memphis, Cincinnati or Illinois. However, those teams at least three quality road wins and we do not. Wins over Arkansas-Little Rock and Tennesse Tech instead of NC St. and Grambling would improve our RPI (currently 69) a few spots but we still wouldn't be in the top 40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 but road vs. home doesn't enter into the RPI equation. It's often a factor in the in or out decision by the committee but neither it nor point differential are part of the RPI. Look at Missouri; they are about a 10 in SOS compared to our 59. The overall season records are both 14-10. They're a 35 RPI to our 69. SOS is very important as are wins. Brad was way off base and recognized it too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted February 28, 2004 Author Share Posted February 28, 2004 We've shown that we can beat good RPI teams at home, we just can't beat them on the road. If we had two more quality wins on the road, our RPI would be top 40 now. Missouri enjoyed the luxury of playing their highest ranked RPI opponent at home. Our games against UAB, Cinci and Memphis were on the road so the challenge for our Billikens was to take two out of three from that group. We didn't get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 The point was that playing 4 really bad teams (as opposed to 2 or 3 kinda bad teams) would hurt our SOS at whatever level it was at. I do not recall the absolute level of SOS coming into the discussion much (if at all). The good SOS is a function of the strength of C-USA in general and DePaul/Charlotte in particular. Sadly, the possible damage of playing 4 really bad teams has come 100% true and has hurt SLU's post-season chances to the point we roughly a 1000-1 shot right now when we could have a lot better chance with even a modest change in scheduling. The mistake could not have been made more obvious (had SLU had a really great or really bad season, the scheduling would have been moot but as many on this list predicted we would be a "high bubble" team desperate to improve our profile). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted February 28, 2004 Author Share Posted February 28, 2004 We played three really bad teams. Eastern Kentucky is 11-13 and has an RPI of 226, which is perfectly acceptable for a buy game. They play number 96 Austin Peay today so their RPI ranking will improve even more, win or lose. Again, replacing two of the 300 rpi patsies with 200 rpi wins would bolster our RPI ranking a few slots, but it wouldn't put us in the top 40. We still would have needed 1) two more quality wins out of the UAB/Memphis/Cinci group or 2) one win out of that group and a season sweep against Charlotte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVanillaGorilla Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 Actually Mizzou did not have "the luxury of playing their highest ranked RPI opponent at home." (12) Gonzaga - road (26) Illinois - nuetral (17) Memphis - road (24) Syracuse - home (41) Oklahoma - road (6) Texas - home (47) Colorado - home and away (18) Kansas - road (11) Oklahoma St - home So in the top 50 RPI 5 road 4 home. Hardly the luxury you make it out to be. Quin's masterful late season coaching job has the tigers at it yet again. If you give Quin blame for the early season losses I am sure you admire how he has turned the season around and you must give him credit now. If the tigers make some noise in the tournament no one will care about the first 2/3 of the season. NCAA basketball is all about the post-season. Good luck in the NIT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 I think 3Star was making a valid point that is not a "dead horse" on this board: our problem is not the 4 buy games but, rather, lack of quality road wins. True, road v. home is not factored into RPI although looked at by the NCAA committee; however, we have a strong record at home but have stumbled on the road. If my math is right, we are 3-6 on the road, not the profile for an NCAA team expecting an at-large bid. For me, our season unraveled in two games: the loss at Charlotte after we had the game well in hand and then the home loss to DePaul after we were up 20+. Had we won those two games, all this talk about buy games would be meaningless. We would be 16-8 (9-4 in conference) and in great shape at this point. Further, I think there is a lesson and a point in this line of discussion. We are beating ourselves and our team to death over all the deficiencies in our lineup. Granted, they are there. But stop and think about our season: we were very, very close to fufilling the wildest expections of all our posters--16-8 over the first 24 games. Hardly anybody predicted such an outcome. My point is this, our Billiken squad, although athleticly challenged at times, is a much better TEAM than I think we are currently giving them credit for. In the short-term (i.e., this season), the "what if's" are small comfort but for the long-term fan I think our program is heading in the right direction. Nobody ever said being a Billiken fan was easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 I am known for being overly optimistic on this board. However, while we lost some close games that, as you have indicated, would have put us at 16-8, we also won several very close games which, had we lost, could have easily put us at .500 or worse. The fact remains that good teams that make the tournament WIN more of the close games than they lose and, unfortunately, we didn't. That is not a criticism, merely an observation. The other observation is that all of the continuing discussion over the schedule, which, incidentally, is three games from being completed, is moot. We have hashed and rehashed the topic to death. Some agree with Brad's scheduling, some don't. My guess is that if Brad had known that this team was as good as they were (relative to expectations) and that the four buy teams were as bad as they were, he would not have scheduled all of them. Now, maybe some of you have talked to Brad on this. I haven't. But while I am disappointed in the outcome, I don't blame Brad UNLESS he had a crystal ball and failed to use it. Let's just finish the season on a strong note, make some noise in the conference tournament, and keep our fingers crossed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken75 Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 Quin is not doing a good coaching job. Injuries to Kleisa, Kroenke, and the loss of Pulley forced him to go with a shortened bench and better flow to the team. The team has tremendous talent - I do not deny that. But I see little in the way of coaching...Eddie Sutton should have started pressing earlier... and he did not have the personnel to stop AJ down low. So give me a break when you talk about coaching... that team is doing it on their own. Mizzou is in the same shape as UCLA was under Lavin...great athletes that when finally under the gun... can use their athleticism to win... if Mizzou played Illinois again... my money is on the Illini. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 I think the '03-'04 SLU Billikens have met my expectations so I'm not complaining anyway we finish this season, as I did not have us in the Big Dance this year. If we can get TL in school and find a decent 4 then I'm looking a lot more favorably for our chances next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVanillaGorilla Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 The look pretty good to me. Playing good defense and winning when it counts. Some of the credit has to go to coaching. Quin is the man. This could be his fifth year in a row in the NCAA tournament. Say what you will but that is a record SLU only dreams of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUWX Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 I'd rather go to the tourney once every five years than go five years in a row with upcoming NCAA sanctions. Take your arrogance back to Boone County where it's cute, cause it ain't flying around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 actually the only "good coaching" change he has made on his own is playing the walmart boys less. otherwise the best thing that has happened is he doesnt have to make other difficult player decisions since kleiza is out and he kicked pulley off the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 i agree completely sluwx. kind of hollow success with all the shenanigans that have went on the last 5 years. at least that is how i would view it if the situation was reversed. doesnt speak well for the character of vanilla if he condones all that for the sake of wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 the marquette and arizona losses are huge as well. as much as it pains me to say it, reggie has just not been "the player" the last 3 weeks that he was earlier. i know he is being keyed on, but if he wants to be the man he needs to find ways to still be successful. add to that the inconsistent soft defense he has put up as of late as well spells a lot trouble. i know we cant just blame reggie, but the way i look at it, you have to see where can production be had? who can contribute more? of the players getting time, the only one that seems is not at maximum capacity is reggie and maybe izik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 I have NEVER read on this board where any Billikens fan wants to go to the tournament if it means doing things that Missouri has done (they're not under investigation and in the newspaper all the time due to their great feats on the basketball court). I guess you and your ilk dream of a legitimate team where you aren't the target of investigations, incessant public criticism, and riducule. Yeah, you really showed us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVanillaGorilla Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 Lets see in the last five years MIZ-ZOU has NOT been hit with any Major violation and the word out of Columbia is no Major violations were found in the investigation. Now yes they have been hit with minor violation but so have just about every other program. In fact the Post showed that Illinois had more violations than MIZ-ZOU in the last few years. Now we have no idea how many violations SLU has had because they won't release the information. So untill they release the info how do you know they run a clean program? The Tigers roll continues. Quin has coached the team to peak at just the right time. The big dance could be fun this year. To bad you wont be joining us. Good luck in the NIT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVanillaGorilla Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 Pulley left, Quin did not kick him off the team, he just stopped showing up for practice. As for LK losing him is a big hit for the team. Quin made the tough choice and had him get surgery to correct the problem and avoid any further damage even though it could cost the Tigers their season. Quin is a players coach, no wonder kids want to come play for him. Quin decided not to risk his players futures when suffering a sholder injury. Also every year Quins teams seem to pick it up at the end of the year. That sounds like good coaching to me. Now yes it would be great if they played well all year long. But much like hockey all that matters is the postseason. I like the coaching that Quin is doing to get the boys to peak at just the right time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 if i remember the illinois vs missouri violations breakdown, illinois were accidental violations except for the one booster that gave the money to an aau team. missouri has done some stuff that in no way was accidental. the illegal phone calls on clemons and conley, the plane rides, the illegal contact on mcbride. of course $nyder still uses the ole "i didnt know that was a rule" excuse and for some reason that keeps working. as to slu, yeah our roster now and during the romar years just looks like one built with illegal contacts doesnt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 you can spin the current success however you wish, but still the fact remains $nyder blew his chance this year for a walk through the tourney. arguably the most talented tiger$ roster ever, with regional and regional final stops awaiting in kansas city and st louis which would have given the tiger$ a home crowd every game. instead the tiger$ and their 11 or 12 seed will probably be in buffalo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 "arguably the most talented tiger$ roster ever" Haven't you spent the past couple months asking "why the tigers are considered so talented?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVanillaGorilla Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Oh so if you get good players you must have cheated. I guess that means a whole lot of good teams are cheaters. But not SLU they can't seem to get anybody thats good so they must be a clean program. typical SLU response. SLU could be just as guilty as the next guy but since they won't release the info we will never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Most tiger fans I converse with think Snyder is a mixed bag. His record is mixed because you can pull out some aspects of his tenure and say its been positvie, including: (1) graduates players; (2) has made ncaa every year and may make it this year; (3) clearly recruits on a national level; (4) seems to get his teams to peak around tournament time; (5) has a very good overall winning percentage. You can look at the bad things and conclude he's an overrated coach who skirts rules: (1) all too frequent NCAA issues and now an investigation: (2) poor record against top 25 teams; (3) inability to break into upper echelon of big 12; (4) teams look clueless much of the year as they plummet out of the polls; (5) a sullied reputation. Indeed, people forget that the year he made the elite eight and starting getting this reputation as a "tournament coach", the Tigers damn near didn't make the NCAA. This year was shaping up as the most dissappointing season in the last 25 years of MU basketball, if not ever. I'm happy that the team seems to have righted themselves and I hope they make the NCAA tournament, but that alone doesn't absolve the disaster that was much of this season. Most tiger fans I know are also embarrassed by the scrutiny the program has received. I truly hope that reports are correct and there are no major violations forthcoming. If that is the case, then Snyder no doubt will keep his job but I sincerely hope that Alden places him on a zero tolerance policy going forward. Further, he needs to tighten up his coaching somehow. I think he should hire an experienced assistant. There are rumors that Harvey or Odom will take a fall--so there may be an opportunity for a change. If the NCAA finds major violations, then Snyder should be fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 mu, you are one of the most honorable tiger fans i have ever encountered on the net. your view is the view i would take if i was a tiger fan as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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