Miklasz makes a public plea on behalf of Josh Harrellson

[Clock_Tower]

To penalize a kid 2 years, who was probably 17 years old when he signed the LOI, is crazy and excessive. I will go along with 1 year.

We could done the same with Ryan Hollins. Now if Hollins could not have played and matured in D1 ball for 2 years, he probably would not be with the Charlotte Bobcats (or any NBA team) today. That would have been a major penalty against his earning potential. Same could be said about Josh.

Totally agree with you as to the grudge going more than 1 year.

Interesting comment and comparison about Hollins. Curious. Would Hollins have been better off at SWIC playing each game and gaining experience v. sitting the bench at UCLA? Might not Harrelson be better off playing at SWIC for 1 year - even 2 years, than at Western IL. Got to believe the talent and competition to be superior at SWIC.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Roy's right. The kid made a terrible mistake. Brad told him to wait until the Spring but he did not want to wait. Why Brad told him to wait is another story but it is not as if Western IL in the fall was his only chance to play college basketball.

Soderberg didn't want Harrellson. There was no asking him to wait until the spring.

[billiken_roy]

Soderberg didn't want Harrellson. There was no asking him to wait until the spring.

then soderberg bold faced lied to over a hundred billiken club members after the signing date.

[Clock_Tower]

Soderberg didn't want Harrellson. There was no asking him to wait until the spring.

Have great respect for your insight with the program, but I do believe Soderberg made several comments that he could sign guys in the Fall which would not really help us and/or be better than what we already had (Harrelson after only his Junior HS year). Knowing that he might strike out on higher targets, I do believe he hoped that Harrelson would wait until the Spring. Are you saying he did not want Harrelson in the Fall (agreed) but that he also did not want him later on (disagree)? Frankly, I found Brad to be a straight shooter and give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Are you saying he did not want Harrelson in the Fall (agreed) but that he also did not want him later on (disagree)?

That's what several sources have told me.

[BIG BILL FAN]

slu72, i am not following your line of thinking. for example what if after last season's north carolina game, roy williams would have called kevin and tommie and said, "boy i really like the way you two played against us. you ought to come play for the tar heels." would you like that?

this is no different. harrelson is defined as committed to western illinois and no other school can directly approach him or talk to him.

floyd didnt recruit the 8th grader. the 8th grader came to him.

you guys cant have it both ways. the ncaa LOI rules are very specific it says in big letters on the LOI they are committing to the school not the coach. if kids arent sure they shouldnt be signing LOI's they should wait until they are sure.

if these rules arent in place, we would have lost liddell that summer that unlv tried to cheat us.

hey i am sorry the kid is stuck. but he made a poor decision and now has to live with the rules that were out there at the time he made that decision. it isnt like the ncaa is picking on him. and to be honest i dont blame western. if they dont stick to their guns, they will never get a chance to get out of the d-1 basement if everytime they hit the jackpot on a late blooming recruit the recruit tries to change and move up.

as to big bills fan, you shouldnt say there is a strong relationship if there really isnt one other than harrelson has heard rickma would be fun to play for. for harrelson's sake, even if he does become available, i hope he takes his time making his next decision whether it be for the billikens or kentucky or ohio state or whomever. he needs to get some decent guideance this time and do the right thing because he doesnt get to keep trying.

Your arrogance is amazing..Tell me is there any subject that you are not the ultimate authority on?

Tell me how Western Illinois "by sticking to their guns" is helping their program? All it is doing is tarnishing their reputation. As for Josh Harrellson's feelings toward Majerus, you don't have a clue because you do not know him. I have talked to him, on numerous occassions and he has reiterated that he has immense respect for RM and would love to play for him. His passion to play for SLU is well documented, and he would be here if your boy "BS" had a clue about evaluating talent. I sincerely believe that you are deliberately going out of your way to trash Harrellson, because your initial evaluation of him was that he wasn't that good.

[Clock_Tower]

That's what several sources have told me.

Did your sources draw a distinction between whether or not Brad's opinions changed.?

Assuming Brad's public statements to be true, I could definitely understand how Brad's statements and actions saying I don't think you are worthy of a scholarship in the Fall but wait and possibly things will change in the Spring could be interpreted simply as Brad does's like him. Then, after he committed to Western IL, I can believe that Brad made no further comments about him since he had already signed his LOI and such comments could be considered tampering.

Believe it was Harrelson who expressed renewed interest in SLU/RM last Spring right after RM was hired. Believe that is one of the reasons Western IL is still mad about.

[Orange Julius]

Here are a few things:

A coach can recruit a JUCO kid through the JUCO coach. I don't know what kind of contact the coach can have with the player but he can tell the player's coach whatever he wants.

If Josh is good enough to go to the SEC or Big 12 is it safe to assume that he could have been the conference player of the year at WIU. That attendance would improve and better recruits would come and the AD would get a raise as well as DT not to mention he would stll have a job.

I am not sure that SLU was interested in Josh. They watched him a lot the summer after his junior year, but they never pulled the trigger. I know Josh had a few schools telling him to wait to the Spring to see what comes available, but I think SLU still had a few scholarships for the taking in the fall.

I have been told by some reliable sources that there have been several schools that have contacted Josh after he signed his LOI. So there was some tampering going on with him.

If I am not mistaken he had offers from SEMO and WIU at the time he signed. He probably could have waited but then again he could have ended up with nothing after the season is over. Of course the ironic thing about that is he would end up where he is now.

Most important of them all you guys keep going back and forth about players sign to play for a specific coach vs the school. My question is why did Josh sign with WIU if he didn't have a fondness for the coach and he didn't necessarily like the scool that much? What other outside sources prompted him to verbal and then sign when there were a lot of people telling him not to sign.

The rules are stated plainly and clearly on the LOI. If a school releases you that is them being nice, but they don't have to. Recruiting takes up time and money, you spend time recruiting someone and then when he decides to come to your school, you pretty much stop recruiting for his spot. So when a kid changes his mind it cost more money and more time to recruit someone to take his spot not to mention that you have to look through the leftovers and then there is a good chance that you end up with players like Obi, Horace and Bryce.

Just a few of my thoughts on the situation. I like Josh a lot as a kid and a player and I really do want the best from him, but things could be terribly worse for him. Right now he is on track to not only play at a high level of JUCO basketball but of D1 basketball as well not to mention getting his associates degree and bachelors degree and all for free. So either way he is far ahead of most of the people in his graduating class and a most of the JUCO players in the country.

[bills16]

would someone refresh my fading memory, is swic a D-1 JUCO.

[cheeseman]

All the points that OJ has made are true and relevant to the big picture regarding JH's situation. However, I do still believe that you are better off going to a 4 year institution then a 2 year not because you get an inferior education. I believe this for two reasons: 1. If you go to a JUCO, you are somewhat limited to what areas you can study - by that I mean you really don't have all the same options opened to you should you have had the chance to go to a 4 year school. 2. The entire college experience can really only be had at a 4 year school so by going to a 2 year program you do miss out on that. Are these two reasons enough to say that JH has been lessened by this situation - who knows that will be open to subjective views.

Now for the WIU situation - they were screwed when JH decided that he did not want to go there. If you call yourself a learning institution then you have to realize that kids make mistakes of judgment - that comes with the territory. If kid signs a letter of acceptance for an academic scholarship that kid can decide anytime up until school starts to not attend and nobody holds him hostage. I do agree that the school has to be protected to some extent so if they want to hold the kid to the letter for a year then I could see that but ultimately regardless of the rules people who work with kids have to do the right thing not just the legal thing sometimes. I think that WIU is being harmed also by this situation - the so called negative recruiting that Roy talks about all the time is taking place - you don't want to go to WIU if you need to change your mind or something they will simply tell you fu## you. Since the coach is gone and the school is still being a hard guy about it then they can not claim that it was Thomas who would not let you go - this was a perfect chance for the school make him the fall guy and end up looking good for the new coach's recruiting efforts - they can not do that now. Also, if I am not mistaken, that schollie is still reserved for JH so they can not even give it to somebody else for 4 years - I know that they only have to make sure that they do not exceed the 13 schollies in any given year but if JH decides he is coming to WIU then they have to take it away from somebody or not give one to some one else they wanted.

The whole situation is not good for both parties - sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on with your life.

[BIG BILL FAN]

would someone refresh my fading memory, is swic a D-1 JUCO.

yes

[Orange Julius]

Also, if I am not mistaken, that schollie is still reserved for JH so they can not even give it to somebody else for 4 years - I know that they only have to make sure that they do not exceed the 13 schollies in any given year but if JH decides he is coming to WIU then they have to take it away from somebody or not give one to some one else they wanted.

I forgot about that so technically WIU is being punished. The moment they use all of their scholarships Josh is released. So that is the schools protection and punishment. If they use the scholarship Josh is released, if they want to personally punish Josh they cannot use the scholarship. I remember at one point last year Josh was hoping WIU would sign another kid but it never happened.

[BIG BILL FAN]

Soderberg didn't want Harrellson. There was no asking him to wait until the spring.

Nate is correct, in fact as of September in Josh's senior season, he told me that he hadn't received a call or even a letter from SLU. This is an amazing fact since Brad had the opportunity to watch him play against Kramer 3 times in his junior season , and dominated in all 3 games.

[slufanskip]

Here are a few things:

A coach can recruit a JUCO kid through the JUCO coach. I don't know what kind of contact the coach can have with the player but he can tell the player's coach whatever he wants.

If Josh is good enough to go to the SEC or Big 12 is it safe to assume that he could have been the conference player of the year at WIU. That attendance would improve and better recruits would come and the AD would get a raise as well as DT not to mention he would stll have a job.

I am not sure that SLU was interested in Josh. They watched him a lot the summer after his junior year, but they never pulled the trigger. I know Josh had a few schools telling him to wait to the Spring to see what comes available, but I think SLU still had a few scholarships for the taking in the fall.

I have been told by some reliable sources that there have been several schools that have contacted Josh after he signed his LOI. So there was some tampering going on with him.

If I am not mistaken he had offers from SEMO and WIU at the time he signed. He probably could have waited but then again he could have ended up with nothing after the season is over. Of course the ironic thing about that is he would end up where he is now.

Most important of them all you guys keep going back and forth about players sign to play for a specific coach vs the school. My question is why did Josh sign with WIU if he didn't have a fondness for the coach and he didn't necessarily like the scool that much? What other outside sources prompted him to verbal and then sign when there were a lot of people telling him not to sign.

The rules are stated plainly and clearly on the LOI. If a school releases you that is them being nice, but they don't have to. Recruiting takes up time and money, you spend time recruiting someone and then when he decides to come to your school, you pretty much stop recruiting for his spot. So when a kid changes his mind it cost more money and more time to recruit someone to take his spot not to mention that you have to look through the leftovers and then there is a good chance that you end up with players like Obi, Horace and Bryce.

Just a few of my thoughts on the situation. I like Josh a lot as a kid and a player and I really do want the best from him, but things could be terribly worse for him. Right now he is on track to not only play at a high level of JUCO basketball but of D1 basketball as well not to mention getting his associates degree and bachelors degree and all for free. So either way he is far ahead of most of the people in his graduating class and a most of the JUCO players in the country.

and how are the kids protected when the school changes their mind? The school recruits a kid, he comes he's on the team a year, the school decides he's not good enough and pulls his scholarship, now the kid must sit a year before moving on. I don't want to hear about fair. Make it fair, the school is allowed to drop a kid at any time with no penalty whatsoever, so the kid should be allowed to drop a school at anytime with no penalty whatsoever. If a penalty is deemed neccessary, fine ... make it go both ways. Btw ... I'd be saying the same thing if Tommie wanted to leave this year. The school could just not renew and move on ... Tommie should be allowed to do the same. See the schollarship is not renewable on an annual basis for the kid, just for the school.

Just make it fair ... that's it. Whatever is good for the school is good for the kid. It's simple

[slufanskip]

I forgot about that so technically WIU is being punished. The moment they use all of their scholarships Josh is released. So that is the schools protection and punishment. If they use the scholarship Josh is released, if they want to personally punish Josh they cannot use the scholarship. I remember at one point last year Josh was hoping WIU would sign another kid but it never happened.

I don't believe that's true. So the day we ink Cassity and Cotto we have immediately drop a kid. I'm sure it's not relevent until school begins next year

[billiken_roy]

Your arrogance is amazing..Tell me is there any subject that you are not the ultimate authority on?

Tell me how Western Illinois "by sticking to their guns" is helping their program? All it is doing is tarnishing their reputation. As for Josh Harrellson's feelings toward Majerus, you don't have a clue because you do not know him. I have talked to him, on numerous occassions and he has reiterated that he has immense respect for RM and would love to play for him. His passion to play for SLU is well documented, and he would be here if your boy "BS" had a clue about evaluating talent. I sincerely believe that you are deliberately going out of your way to trash Harrellson, because your initial evaluation of him was that he wasn't that good.

how am i "trashing" him?

[billiken_roy]

Here are a few things:

A coach can recruit a JUCO kid through the JUCO coach. I don't know what kind of contact the coach can have with the player but he can tell the player's coach whatever he wants.

If Josh is good enough to go to the SEC or Big 12 is it safe to assume that he could have been the conference player of the year at WIU. That attendance would improve and better recruits would come and the AD would get a raise as well as DT not to mention he would stll have a job.

I am not sure that SLU was interested in Josh. They watched him a lot the summer after his junior year, but they never pulled the trigger. I know Josh had a few schools telling him to wait to the Spring to see what comes available, but I think SLU still had a few scholarships for the taking in the fall.

I have been told by some reliable sources that there have been several schools that have contacted Josh after he signed his LOI. So there was some tampering going on with him.

If I am not mistaken he had offers from SEMO and WIU at the time he signed. He probably could have waited but then again he could have ended up with nothing after the season is over. Of course the ironic thing about that is he would end up where he is now.

Most important of them all you guys keep going back and forth about players sign to play for a specific coach vs the school. My question is why did Josh sign with WIU if he didn't have a fondness for the coach and he didn't necessarily like the scool that much? What other outside sources prompted him to verbal and then sign when there were a lot of people telling him not to sign.

The rules are stated plainly and clearly on the LOI. If a school releases you that is them being nice, but they don't have to. Recruiting takes up time and money, you spend time recruiting someone and then when he decides to come to your school, you pretty much stop recruiting for his spot. So when a kid changes his mind it cost more money and more time to recruit someone to take his spot not to mention that you have to look through the leftovers and then there is a good chance that you end up with players like Obi, Horace and Bryce.

Just a few of my thoughts on the situation. I like Josh a lot as a kid and a player and I really do want the best from him, but things could be terribly worse for him. Right now he is on track to not only play at a high level of JUCO basketball but of D1 basketball as well not to mention getting his associates degree and bachelors degree and all for free. So either way he is far ahead of most of the people in his graduating class and a most of the JUCO players in the country.

great post OJ.

[billiken_roy]

I don't believe that's true. So the day we ink Cassity and Cotto we have immediately drop a kid. I'm sure it's not relevent until school begins next year

i think skip is correct. i do not think the number of binding LOI's has nothing to do with the active roster and scholarships being used.

[satrap]

Here are a few things:

A coach can recruit a JUCO kid through the JUCO coach. I don't know what kind of contact the coach can have with the player but he can tell the player's coach whatever he wants.

If Josh is good enough to go to the SEC or Big 12 is it safe to assume that he could have been the conference player of the year at WIU. That attendance would improve and better recruits would come and the AD would get a raise as well as DT not to mention he would stll have a job.

I am not sure that SLU was interested in Josh. They watched him a lot the summer after his junior year, but they never pulled the trigger. I know Josh had a few schools telling him to wait to the Spring to see what comes available, but I think SLU still had a few scholarships for the taking in the fall.

I have been told by some reliable sources that there have been several schools that have contacted Josh after he signed his LOI. So there was some tampering going on with him.

If I am not mistaken he had offers from SEMO and WIU at the time he signed. He probably could have waited but then again he could have ended up with nothing after the season is over. Of course the ironic thing about that is he would end up where he is now.

Most important of them all you guys keep going back and forth about players sign to play for a specific coach vs the school. My question is why did Josh sign with WIU if he didn't have a fondness for the coach and he didn't necessarily like the scool that much? What other outside sources prompted him to verbal and then sign when there were a lot of people telling him not to sign.

The rules are stated plainly and clearly on the LOI. If a school releases you that is them being nice, but they don't have to. Recruiting takes up time and money, you spend time recruiting someone and then when he decides to come to your school, you pretty much stop recruiting for his spot. So when a kid changes his mind it cost more money and more time to recruit someone to take his spot not to mention that you have to look through the leftovers and then there is a good chance that you end up with players like Obi, Horace and Bryce.

Just a few of my thoughts on the situation. I like Josh a lot as a kid and a player and I really do want the best from him, but things could be terribly worse for him. Right now he is on track to not only play at a high level of JUCO basketball but of D1 basketball as well not to mention getting his associates degree and bachelors degree and all for free. So either way he is far ahead of most of the people in his graduating class and a most of the JUCO players in the country.

Very nice, and this was basically my point in taking the perspective of WIU rather than JH.

[cheeseman]

i think skip is correct. i do not think the number of binding LOI's has nothing to do with the active roster and scholarships being used.

I believe you both are correct but the problem still exist that if JH had decided to go to WIU in August last year then WIU could have been over the limit and would have had to drop somebody - that was my point. Also, he could decide to go there this upcoming year and WIU is still in the same boat. OJ is right also in saying that the school is being punished also potentially.

[Orange Julius]

and how are the kids protected when the school changes their mind? The school recruits a kid, he comes he's on the team a year, the school decides he's not good enough and pulls his scholarship, now the kid must sit a year before moving on. I don't want to hear about fair. Make it fair, the school is allowed to drop a kid at any time with no penalty whatsoever, so the kid should be allowed to drop a school at anytime with no penalty whatsoever. If a penalty is deemed neccessary, fine ... make it go both ways. Btw ... I'd be saying the same thing if Tommie wanted to leave this year. The school could just not renew and move on ... Tommie should be allowed to do the same. See the schollarship is not renewable on an annual basis for the kid, just for the school.

Just make it fair ... that's it. Whatever is good for the school is good for the kid. It's simple

I have heard lots of coaches comment on that very thing and most of them have said that if they make a mistake in recruiting a kid they deal with it and bite the bullet, but if they recruit a kid who is a bad seed they do everything in their power to make it uncomfortable for a kid to get him in line and if that doesn't work then they have to discuss the kids future at their program.

Remember you just can't go all wild and crazy and release kids without any repercussions. How easy is it to recruit against a coach who sits in a parents living room and says he is going to take care of a kid and they just continues to release kids left and right. Two things about that scenario one it should be easy to tarnish that type of coach's reputation and second that is where it is important for a kid to do his research before comitting to a coach. There are very few schools were a kid is commiting to a school and that is just the truth the coach is probably the biggest determining factor for a recruit no matter what the Letter of Intent says.

[billiken_roy]

I believe you both are correct but the problem still exist that if JH had decided to go to WIU in August last year then WIU could have been over the limit and would have had to drop somebody - that was my point. Also, he could decide to go there this upcoming year and WIU is still in the same boat. OJ is right also in saying that the school is being punished also potentially.

actually i think derrick used harrelson's scholarship this year for a walkon. at least that is what i was told.

[billiken_roy]

I have heard lots of coaches comment on that very thing and most of them have said that if they make a mistake in recruiting a kid they deal with it and bite the bullet, but if they recruit a kid who is a bad seed they do everything in their power to make it uncomfortable for a kid to get him in line and if that doesn't work then they have to discuss the kids future at their program.

Remember you just can't go all wild and crazy and release kids without any repercussions. How easy is it to recruit against a coach who sits in a parents living room and says he is going to take care of a kid and they just continues to release kids left and right. Two things about that scenario one it should be easy to tarnish that type of coach's reputation and second that is where it is important for a kid to do his research before comitting to a coach. There are very few schools were a kid is commiting to a school and that is just the truth the coach is probably the biggest determining factor for a recruit no matter what the Letter of Intent says.

oj, again, a great post. the only thing i think that needs to be clarified in your above thoughts is what "bad seed" means. i assume you mean trouble off the court in the classroom, insubordinate type thing. if so, i agree completely.

[Clock_Tower]

and how are the kids protected when the school changes their mind? The school recruits a kid, he comes he's on the team a year, the school decides he's not good enough and pulls his scholarship, now the kid must sit a year before moving on. I don't want to hear about fair. Make it fair, the school is allowed to drop a kid at any time with no penalty whatsoever, so the kid should be allowed to drop a school at anytime with no penalty whatsoever. If a penalty is deemed neccessary, fine ... make it go both ways. Btw ... I'd be saying the same thing if Tommie wanted to leave this year. The school could just not renew and move on ... Tommie should be allowed to do the same. See the schollarship is not renewable on an annual basis for the kid, just for the school.

Just make it fair ... that's it. Whatever is good for the school is good for the kid. It's simple

You have just described "free agency" for all college players. In essence, the big name schools would recruit from the smaller schools each spring rather than from just high schools and JUCOs. Think about it, SLU tales a chance on IV who was terrible and clumsy his freshman year. He develops his game. Then, after his Junior year, he gets an offer from a Big Ten school and he "voluntarily" leaves SLU. This year, every school would try and lure Stephen Curry away from Davidson. Not interested in such a system. Add to this that our 5 recruits in the Fall may then want to leave, despite their LOI, because TL and KL both went to play for a team like Michigan. Where does it stop?

Most kids take 5 years to graduate in college anyway. If not my mortgage, wife and kids, I'd love to be "punished" by sitting out another year at college. Also, keep in mind that kids leaving/getting pushed out is still the exception to the rule. Frankly, most coaches would not be able to push kids out the door like RM apparently has been able to do. Don't kid yourselves, if UNC or Duke pushed 2 kids out, Williams and Coach K would not be affect by "negative recruiting."

[BIG BILL FAN]

You have just described "free agency" for all college players. In essence, the big name schools would recruit from the smaller schools each spring rather than from just high schools and JUCOs. Think about it, SLU tales a chance on IV who was terrible and clumsy his freshman year. He develops his game. Then, after his Junior year, he gets an offer from a Big Ten school and he "voluntarily" leaves SLU. This year, every school would try and lure Stephen Curry away from Davidson. Not interested in such a system. Add to this that our 5 recruits in the Fall may then want to leave, despite their LOI, because TL and KL both went to play for a team like Michigan. Where does it stop?

Most kids take 5 years to graduate in college anyway. If not my mortgage, wife and kids, I'd love to be "punished" by sitting out another year at college. Also, keep in mind that kids leaving/getting pushed out is still the exception to the rule. Frankly, most coaches would not be able to push kids out the door like RM apparently has been able to do. Don't kid yourselves, if UNC or Duke pushed 2 kids out, Williams and Coach K would not be affect by "negative recruiting."

I'm not advocating that system, but apparently that is the rule for D1 soccer, and it seems to work ok.