moytoy12 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Huh? What in the HELL are you even talking about? Are we involved in the same discussion? Your canned answers are tiresome. When did i say that i would tell my recruit they have better options? Billikan, try to look at something objectively. If you are a recruit, do you think UCLA, Florida, Duke and/or UNC would be better basketball options than SLU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Many thanks, i appreciate that. I would also implore Nate to continue posting information and providing opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Moy, I generally respect your opinions on here, but I feel this post is BS. The way I read this post is that if we sign a high profile class, it will essentially be a waste. To beat a dead horse, it sounds like you are "accepting mediocrity". I admit that the schools you mentioned are HIGHER PROFILE (and I hesitate to put Mizzou in that category)...but better basketball opportunity? I disagree. It's not that hard to win with a roster of 4-5 star studs. How many national championships have been won with mid-major players? We have a brand new arena coming in a huge media market. Our acedemics are top notch and the campus beautiful, but also in an urban setting which basketball players may enjoy. If Scott and his buddies decide to attend SLU, I think it will provide a spectacular basketball opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 "The way I read this post is that if we sign a high profile class, it will essentially be a waste." I don't understand that statement. Good players are good players and i think Sodie could do a good job with 'em and they would have success. "this post is BS." I really don't understand what is tripping you guys up so much. Show a kid the list of Illinois, SLU, Missouri, Florida, i bet he'll tell you which one is not like the others. It's reality. "Our academics are top notch." That has nothing to do with the basketball aspect. That's why i limited it to basketball only. I'm not taking shots at SLU or accepting mediocrity by saying other schools are better than us in terms of basketball. I hope UB goes after these kids, i never said otherwise. However, I bet it's going to be the 2-3 star kids that nark mentioned in the other thread that will eventually carry us to the 4 and occasional 5 star kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 nate said, "Because the kid has better options than SLU." as opposing coaches will undoubtedly tell him. however, it depends on the viewpoint. nate said, "He could go to Florida and play for national championships." i wasnt aware that florida is penciled in for the next 5 years championship. nate said, "He could go to Illinois and play for a team that competes for the Big Ten title every year and has been to several NCAA tournaments the last few years." seems i have heard from illini fans and read on illini message boards that the trend is going the opposite direction. weber is getting as much heat about recruiting and such as soderberg. and there is no denying the level of talent on the illini team is down now that self's recruits are all out of the program. nate said, "He could go to Washington and play in the NCAA tournament for a couple years." washington did no better in the ncaa tourney this year than slu did. nate said, "He could go to Missouri and play for a coach who is likely to start getting the Tigers to the tournament on a regular basis." oh brother. a free pass for a couple of years is one thing. but to annoit anderson to this degree already is ridiculous. it would be interesting to know what soured nate latsch on the billikens over the last year. personally, i no longer enjoy reading what has become very bitter poisoned OPINIONS at billikens.com. now if you gives facts about who is recruiting who, that is worthy information. i am sorry about whatever pissed you off nate to the point you now go out of your way to campaign against the billikens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 moytoy said, "Suggs probably does have better options then SLU (gasp)." if fans want to say this, then dammit i dont want to read about how a coach shoulda closed on a higher ranked recruit that goes to a higher profile school either then. cant have it both ways. if you want to excuse the guy (supposed fan) that makes such an assumption, then dont rag the coach that loses that recruit down the road either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 "however, it depends on the viewpoint." I guess only if you wear Billiken glasses will you see that BCS schools are equal to or lesser than SLU. "i wasnt aware that florida is penciled in for the next 5 years championship." Nate said "play for national championships." Do you disagree that Florida is playing for national championships? "washington did no better in the ncaa tourney this year than slu did." boy, that perspective is awfully short-sighted. Hey, SLU won as many games as UNC yesterday. "oh brother. a free pass for a couple of years is one thing. but to annoit anderson to this degree already is ridiculous." How is it annointing Anderson to say that Missouri will get to tournaments on a regular basis? And you think that missouri will not get to tournaments on a regular basis. " i no longer enjoy reading what has become very bitter poisoned OPINIONS at billikens.com." What has become poisoned or bitter? Especially in this post? He posted a fairly acceptable fact if the underlying assumption is true. If Suggs is being recruited by BCS schools, then those are probably better options than SLU. Good god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Oh, if only it were that simple. If SLU could have had a recruit, but waited too long, then the big dogs came sniffing, i'm not gonna give the coach a pass. Your statement seems to pass the sniff test, but it is more nuanced than you posit. If all things are equal and a kid chooses Florida over SLU, i wouldn't fault the coach. In fact, that was why Romar should be criticized because he failed to cut his losses and continued after the big fish against BCS schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 did not make the NCAA tourney this year.....in fact were worse than SLU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 "Show a kid the list of Illinois, SLU, Missouri, Florida, i bet he'll tell you which one is not like the others" Well, I guess it depends on one's perspective. You could say, Florida doesn't belong due to geography reasons. Your statements portray you thinking we are on the lower end of a mid-major where I feel we are on the higher end. Your comments assume you know what these recruits want. A better basketball opportunity to Scott may mean the ability to play in front of his mom everyday, play in a brand new arena in front of his buddies, and be an immediate starter and city media darling. To me, your attitude in this thread protrays a bit of a defeatist attitude that myself and my coherts have been accused of having. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glanderm Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 You can be a SLU fan and make varying levels of critical statements about the team, program, etc. They are not mutually exclusive. Plenty of people come on here and make statements about the team (whether positive or negative) that simply reflect their opinions and are not born out of some personal agenda or malevolent intentions. Having (and expressing) those opinions is a big part of what being a fan is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 "Well, I guess it depends on one's perspective. You could say, Florida doesn't belong due to geography reasons." LOL. Thanks for the laugh. Where did i say we couldn't land them and we shouldn't go after them? I'm a realist though and understand that most kids would choose a BCS basketball opportunity over SLU. That's not brain surgery. My support of SLU and understanding of where SLU ranks in the grand scheme of things are not mutually exclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glanderm Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 FWIW, I'm with moy. All things being equal (i.e. controlling for geographic differences, the desire to stay close to home, etc.) there's truth in moy's statement that if you "Show a kid the list of Illinois, SLU, Missouri, Florida, i bet he'll tell you which one is not like the others". This statement doesn't demonstrate a the attitude of a defeatist, it demonstrates the attitude of a realist. No one's saying we shouldn't take a shot at attracting the best of the best, especially when they're in our own backyard (e.g. Suggs, Brandenburg, Griffey) and the factors I mentioned above (that we were controlling for) are likely to be more prevalent. But we need also need to target the next tier of recruits and make sure we don't miss out on them b/c we were left twisting in the wind by the elite. We need to understand our "market", like the SIUCs and Creighton's of the world, as I believe davidnark mentioned in another post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Maybe I'm just lumping you in with a lot of other posters, but I feel like there's a bit of a conflict. On one hand, we want to pretend we're a major player. Throw out hiring big name coaches and talking about of being tourney most years...the survey Courtside quotes so much. But then we talk about being inferior to schools like freakin Missouri? I don't like that. People choose to go to different schools for different reasons. Just look at Kevin Lisch. If he was so concerned about being at a BCS school, he would have played AAU ball and at least commited to Illinois. Or how about Larry Hughes? I don't have much more to say on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 With MU having a ex-coach recently get busted for NCAA violations, the same coach having a drinking and coke problem, and the same coach having an affair with a prominent booster's daughter which led to his wife filing for divorce. I would say that pretty much puts MU in a class by itself. You don't even need to bring up the off the court problems of the atheletes there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 "Throw out hiring big name coaches and talking about of being tourney most years..." I just posted yesterday in response to Footes that the talk of big name coaches is silly and think the best chance SLU has is finding an up and coming assistant (this has been further qualified as an option only if CL has done her due diligence). I'll take the tourney once every five years to start...how's that sound? "Or how about Larry Hughes?" We all know the various things that went into play there. "Just look at Kevin Lisch. If he was so concerned about being at a BCS school, he would have played AAU ball and at least commited to Illinois." That's why i said "most." I don't see what's so difficult about the concept that SLU isn't at the level of the BCS schools and therefore is at a deficit when speaking with recruits considering a BCS school. "I don't have much more to say on this subject." ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Latsch Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I just got back from a long meeting and I have to go to another one, so I'll try to address everything as quickly as I can. I don't want to see SLU fail. No, I'm not a "fan" in the same sense as everyone here because I can't be as a sportswriter. Same reason I can't be a St. Louis Cardinals fan or a Philadelphia Phillies fan (the team I grew up rooting for). It doesn't mean I can't be happy for these teams when they do well. I want to see SLU in the tournament every year. I want to see the best local players in the junior class go to SLU and turn the program around. When I say Scott Suggs has better options than SLU, it's because he does. Based on what I've learned over the years about what kids want in a college, schools like Florida and Washington and Illinois and North Carolina will beat out SLU most of the time. That doesn't mean SLU isn't the best option for a lot of local kids. SLU is. But here's the kicker ... There have been good local basketball players who have wanted to go to SLU, but SLU doesn't want them. I can think of a couple in this junior class who would have been good for the Billikens, but who SLU didn't want. When I posted on here that Torres Roundtree told me he wanted to go to SLU, the backlash was directed at me because it was my fault apparently. I posted on this thread because it was a rumor about a high school kid transferring schools. When Roy asked me a question about it, I gave him an honest answer. I'm not trying to come to this board to spin everything and blow smoke — there's already a few people on here who do that every day. There are a lot of great fans on this board, even Roy, who's been bashing me at every turn for a while now. I'm trying to provide information for people here who can't get that information — or accurate information — from other sources. I am not the enemy. Yes, I've said I think there needs to be a coaching change. That opinion is one I've come to after watching everything unfold over the last few years. I'm not the only person in local high school basketball circles who thinks this way. There are people close to the SLU program who think this way. I don't want to see Brad lose his job, but I do want to see a coach in place who can succeed in recruiting and in building the SLU program to the level I think it is capable of — on par or close with schools like Gonzaga and Marquette and the like. Some people look at the increased win seasons of recent years and point to a trend. I look at this year — which should have been one of the best seasons in a long time — and see a missed opportunity. I look at Ian graduating and the recruiting misses and the lack of depth and the lack of signed recruits and I see cause for concern. Sorry, but that's how I feel. - Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 The answer is that it depends on the individual, his situation, his family and his goals. I have to recruit all the time against big national "name" firms who people would say anyone should jump at if they get an offer. Yet, we successfully recruit a lot of those people because they see our situation and the opportunity as a perfect fit for them under the circumstances. To say that the other schools are always a better option is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I never said that other schools are always a better option. I also said that all things being equal, a recruit is going to pick the BCS school most of the time. I hope you're not this sloppy as an attorney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 if we truly beleive that and dont see advantages to slu then why are we even trying? why are we pissed when anyone doesnt come here? i mean what do you expect a coach to recruit to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Because as brian and billikan and nashville and you have pointed out, kids have different wants and desires. I believe , that the Dukes and UNCs and Floridas and Illinois' are going to beat us out consistently. If you don't see this, then that's not my fault. However, there is the occasional kid (KL) who will desire to go to SLU because of what they're looking for. This isn't a difficult concept. I'm sorry you guys are making it tougher than it needs to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Great stuff Nate. Now beware of the zealots. Suggesting that local coaches and others close the program think a coaching change may be best for SLU is treason around these parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 We know how you feel. We know how others feel. Hell I basically feel the same damn way. But nothing is going to change for at least a year. Sitting here bitching multiple times every damn day about it will not make it any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Exactly. Believe it or not, I'm probably closer to the anti than the pro right now. But what good does it do to ***** on here day in and day out. You might as well stay positive and hope things play out great. Luckily this place has been much more civil lately, so it's tolerable. But it doesn't do anything productive. Our traffic has been way down for the past 3-4 weeks. This place is entertainment for a lot of people and for this most part, this ##### isn't very entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 "Our traffic has been way down for the past 3-4 weeks." surely you aren't suggesting that the coach talk has had the effect on traffic? I'm guessing traffic is down 'cause the season is over. also, it takes 2 [groups] to tango. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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