slufanskip Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Just curious, since we have been talking about coaching changes. Anyone know much about Mark Turgeon? and what do you think? Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Skip, he's a great coach, and one our rebel fans already would have fired as well. After(and when) Self gets hit with major violations, Turgeon will be the next Kansas coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIUSalukis Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 > Just curious, since we have been talking about coaching >changes. Anyone know much about Mark Turgeon? and what do >you think? > > > > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H >Waldman > >Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would >have helped club. Turgeon makes 750K a year at WSU. What is Brad's salary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satrap Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Turge is TEARING it up this year. A 5'5" flavor-of-the-month coach. Me no think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Turgeon is doing well at Wichita St. He is doing it with the usual 3-4 guard MVC lineups because like most MVC teams they can't recruit many high quality bigs. He has spent exactly one year coaching anywhere near a major city....he is a small town campus guy...and absolutely loves KU more than you would imagine, played there, assistant there. I think it is possible to see Turgeon leave Wichita St for somewhere other than KU, but I think that would be a BCS conference school. He's a young guy, so winning at Wichita St. and waiting around for KU job a while is not a big deal to him right now. His previous coaching stops have been assistant stops at major schools. He, like many others have that dream, his is KU...but if the MVC people think he wouldn't leave for the right fit at a different major, they are mistaken. The one thing he has in common alread with many SLU fans, is is hatred of Mizzou. He would have come to SLU from Jacksonville St or his oother assistant stops, KU, or Oregon to be head coach. ...but not now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 SLU and the A10 aren't necessarily a step up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 Just curious ... forget whether he would come or not, if he would come and you were the AD ... would you take him? Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 > Just curious ... forget whether he would come or not, if he >would come and you were the AD ... would you take him? > Heck yes. WSU had been crap since the Xavier McDaniel days. Turgeon had made them annual MVC contenders, has ignited the fan base, has stepped up recruiting and took them to the Sweet 16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 The negative crowd would be trying to run him out on a rail if he lost 6 games after being ranked 8th in the country. I just read an interview quote from him saying that he did not know what was wrong and he did not know how he was going to fix it. That kind of quote must make him an idiot if you listen to the people on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 That's quite a difference from the Atlantic 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 I read the same quote. I was figuring he would be available as he obviously should be fired. He has lost control of his team. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I have repeatedly posted that many other better programs...the coach does not appear after tough losses. Happens all the time. I do not take anything a ocach says to media with anything more than a grain of salt. People are excited in a bad way and are looking for more material, and unfortunately Brad doesn't have a media coach. But do I care what Brad says to the media. No, not one bit. I will never condem a coach for what they say at media stuff. That's silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 I agree my point to the whole thread wasn't really to determine whether or not we wanted or could get Turgeon. I know exactly who he is. My point was that if someone is unhappy with coach at least be fair and attack him where warrented. Not by over analyizing a quote which half the coaches in America have made the same sort of quote after a bad streak. TO insinuate that it means he has lost control of his team is really stretching it. 1. We have no 4 with experience. 2. We play a defense that night after night leaves us open to getting killed by the 3. ... See no.1 3. We get killed on the offensive boards ... see no 1. Imo ... the large majority of our problem goes back to not having any quality 4's. Sure we could use another guard. Preferably a top notch point, but with Luke at the 3 and DP as the 1st guard off the bench we would be ok on the perimiter. We could get out of the freaking pack defense with more depth at the 4. We would not give up as many offensive rebounds. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Simply put, no other team in their league defeated two big boys this season. Sure, Wichita St has struggled since...but no other MVC has accomplished as much. His past achievements taking a down and out program in a down and out area of the country, and succeeding, while also having two stops at BCS conference good basketball schools. ...and has Midwest ties...among other national ties...I think Turgeon is more than qualified. Obviously he would never be interested in SLU. The next time SLU ever hires a coach, I am in favor of hiring somebody who has been a high major assistant, preferably at multiple stops, and has head coaching experience at D-1 level. SLU will be looking to get someone with smaller D-1 conference head coaching experience, or someone who has had higher but wants the job for various reasons. SLU will need to be ready with money and resources etc...They will not attract any coach at the Mid-Major level or higher that is currently in place as a head cocah. If they chose a coach without head coaching experience, that coach will need to be given Soderberg time, serveral years to start his own program and learn head coaching on the job. Some coaches in that category will be able to avhieve more faster and some won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 courtside said, "They will not attract any coach at the Mid-Major level or higher that is currently in place as a head coach. If they chose a coach without head coaching experience, that coach will need to be given Soderberg time, serveral years to start his own program and learn head coaching on the job. Some coaches in that category will be able to avhieve more faster and some won't." i totally agree. we will start over again. someone suggested the john shaw like intervention. reminding all how the rams were stuck in medicrity and then shaw stepped in and made some internal moves and changes that led to the super bowl. the program would be much better served to have levick to the same. be it switching asst coaches, mandating basketball philosophical changes from coach soderberg, etc. but starting over is only going to be another step back and then we have to go through the next 5 years again before we can have the same discussion then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Roy let me also be clear that as much as it might frustrate, hurt, pain people...that is a distinct possible I may not be opposed to...I no way shape or form endorsed or condemened Brad. I am not in favor of keeping Brad automatically and shaking up the other stuff. I believe Brad should be evaluated after this season and every season. I do believe SLU can hire a coach who can dance within 5 years.(it happens a lot actually). I also believe it would be only fair to give that coach the same amount of time as Brad if that coach hadn't yet. I believe after 5 years you have a pretty good picture of the direction of your program from your head coach...practices, recruiting, game day x's and o's, adjustments during games, adjustments in other aspects of the program, how is he in the community, how is he involved with marketing, overall game day presentation, is he very active on campus getting students to games and spending time with them....and so on....it is a big total picture... I just wanted to post this for clarity. Just because it may mean starting over at some point...sometimes that is necesary, and as opposed to that as you are Roy...there are capable talented people out there who may can come in and succeed in a shorter amount of time in all said areas or some etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 courtside, i do not believe that we can hire a new coach and be in a top 25-50 position assuming the only change made is the coach. there has to be substantial changes to the program from top to bottom and a budget that resembles a top 25-50 program. if that infrastructure change is not implemented at the same time as a coaching change i dont care who the new coach is, the chances of hitting the lotto are very slim. we already missed out on romar. i'd hate to make the same mistake. fix the other problems first than make a coaching decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I do believe SLU needs a commitment to winning. I don't think Levick is going to hang around without getting her say into what is going on...if SLU fails it is on her as well. As I said SLU needs to be more prepared with resources and finaces to attract the next coach whenever that may be. I do also believe that the coach doesn't get a free pass. There are a lot of things involved with being a head coach, and how many are BS doing well? I do believe it is possible to bring in a coach that can get to an NCAA within five years even right now...overachiever? yes. I also believe the other things need to be in place to ensure longer term success. I disagree with the notion that no coach can win at SLU under the current system. I do not believe it helps the coach at all, but obviously it has happened at other places within 5 years...and maintained. And some of those places out there didn't begin with that commitment...and after the coach made progress, gave the commitment to winning and resources..etc.. When BS waas hired, I questioned whether he was that coach who could overcome the obstacles at SLU, and those questions remain. You think it takes a University commitment first...and I have seen and believe it takes a coach first to have a little success to get that commitment from the school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I honestly haven't seen enough of their games to see how good Turgeon is. I've heard him interviewed a couple of times and I like what he has to say...he likes to recuit shooters for one thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 and where do you think Brad will go and be successful? We've been through this in recent weeks, but the program got worse each year under Romar. I still stand by my position that if SLU didn't improve during Romar's 4th year it would have been a big problem for him. 4 consecutive seasons of declining wins and attendance would have put Romar on the hot seat (as it would with almost any coach at any school). I know some people on here think SLU would have given a parade for Romar even with 4 consecutive declining years, but I don't see it. Heck, people are wanting to run Brad out of town even though he might have his third conecutive season with improved winning percentage. On to Brad...where do you think Brad would go after SLU and be succesful enough to make SLU fans regret his departure? What Lorenzo DID have was NBA credibility and an NCAA championship as an assistant coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Roy, I also believe that because the infrastructure at SLU is such a mess, any "up-and-coming" coach would steer clear. All of those posters who think that this job is a gold mine for a prospective coach are sadly mistaken. The coaching network, which all coaches rely on, will send up all kinds of red flags about SLU. They only have to look at the history of the last four coaches during their tenure at SLU to see that there are major flaws. Any coach with an imagination would look for a job with a much more supportive network. We've got plenty of evidence--the past 4 coaches at SLU-- as to what happens when the support is missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWin Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Roy, How can we, the fans, help make this happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 But one could also say despite SLU...Spoon was able to later to get a UNLV head job...Romar inspite of SLU was able to get a U Of Washington job etc... Depending on where a coach is ...in his career, SLU with new Arena and facilities, can draw somebody who can win at SLU. and then they and the AD can lobby and get mor support and $$. SLU isn't a great head coaching gig...but it isn't at the bottom either. Let me tell you something about most coaches, not all, but most...they want head gigs. Young and old. Obviously suuport has been missing, and obviously some problems with the coaches too. SLU isn't going to get an already accomplished superstar coach. Not going to happen. But this isn't Little Sister of the poor either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 But look where each one of the last four coaches has left the program--in the toilet. If those two were such established coaches when they came to SLU, and I'm not denying they weren't, then what were the reasons that they were never able to recruit or build a strong winning tradition. The program was just as bad when they left as when they got here. There are other factors that are gumming up the ability of a coach to get it done in a big way and then keep it there. SLU is not a plum job, and it will never be until every person at SLU who has anything to do with basketball, from answering phones, to selling tickets, to chartering a plane has the same goals and standards. Spoon got another job, but he was roasted by the supporters at UNLV the same way the SLU folks are circling Brad. Romar has gone home, but I dare say he could have jumped to that job by way of Pepperdine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I don't care if those two went 0-32 at their nexr stops, the point was they received the jobs. SLU is not a plum job, never said it was. SLU hasn't had a commitment to winning, but I have seen MANY coaches win with little. For a school that does not have everyone on the same page or standard, the coach is going to have be good at a lot of things. You don't just walk in like it is North Carolina and say let's charter this and that and spend for this and that etc...how about the coach showing a little bit too? I have seen many ways of winning. For someone to say Brad can't be more successful at SLU under current circumstances, than he is, I would disgree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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