billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 florida has been in the ncaa tourney 12 times in the last 20 years. 6 of them are with donovan. they have been in the final four three times, twice with donovan. their championship is of course with donovan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I agree brian, but just because we run them out there doesn't mean we have depth. It means we have bodies to put on a court to keep our starters from collapsing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Roy you can define it however you want because you are always right. How dare anyone point at that you are wrong. Forgive me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 and i asked you how are we going to judge that? i asked if i look will the stats of those 7th men for those teams be significantly better than danny brown and justion johnson? because i dont know and said i hadnt looked. you chose to dodge that part instead took my question to mean something totally different. my whole point of this thread was to point out that teams do not play 9 and 10 men rotations as many on this board have been trying to insinuate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I agree with you in this particular instance. I usually respect what Roy states but his stance in this thread is ridiculous. You know, i guess if we have similar depth as the top 25 and SLU isn't getting the job, then...well...who's fault is that? Roy, if we have similar depth as Duke and can't beat SBU or DU, who's fault is that? We have the horses per your statements...where does the culpability reside? Roy once stated that this was our deepest bench in some time, so his adamant support of this position isn't surprising...it's wrong, but not surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 "you chose to dodge that part instead took my question to mean something totally different." I didn't dodge, i asked you if you had eyes. If you had eyes, that worked, then you could judge for yourself that the 6th, 7th, and 8th man from Duke is better than JJ, DB and Coffey/DM. I squarely confronted your ridiculous question after you copped out. Hey, Tenn-Martin's team goes 9 deep (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/teams/tae/stats), how do i know for a fact that Duke's 6th, 7th, and 8th players are better than Tenn-Martin's? I mean...how could that even be judged...are you kidding me here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Calling him ###### is par for the course. An ahole like you should know his ###### Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUSER Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 So Florida could have plugged Soderburg into that position and gotten the same results? NO...Billy Donovan is a heck of a coach. But I am sure florida's recruiting budget is the sole reason behind Florida's success and if SLU got a Billy Donovan as coach, we would have no success cause SLU's admin won't allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 no i said that many have made references complaining that soderberg only uses 7 or 8 players per game instead of 10 or so inferring that defines depth. all i did was show that most teams dont play more than 7 players. you all are the ones now changing the rules of defining depth. i havent said anything about quality. in fact i asked you how we define that comparison and you never did. i dont know how to quanify that aspect other than stats and have admitted i havent looked at that aspect to see how say ucla's 7th man compares to brown or johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Do you really need to look up UCLA's 7th man's stats to say that he is better than JJ? You can't say that with confidence without looking at stats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 and i would say the fact we are 12-6 says that is the case. in our 6 losses, north carolina and texas a+m are team losses that cant be pinned on any one player. the other four, i would look to lisch and voyoukas not playing up to standards before saddling losses on johnson and brown. but i guess if danny brown would have averaged 25 in those losses and johnson would have gotten 15 rebounds in those 4 losses we might have won a couple of them. good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Do we have the quality depth of a top 15 program? No. Do we have guys that should be getting more minutes? I think we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Again, you said "the reason the billikens are not a top 25 team has less to do with the team depth and more to do with the fact that the starting five is not as good as top 25 teams. but typical depth is apparently about a 7 or 8 man rotation." The reason we are not a top 25 team has less to do with team depth. You base this on the assumption that running 7-8 out there is the norm and SLU is near this norm. The logical conclusion is that depth to you is more about the # of players going out on the court since you can't compare our players with other teams' players without seeing stats. It's not solely about our bench keeping our starters fresh, but maintaining a level of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Wow...this thread is electric...I will now try to re-set the offense a little bit and let everyone catch their breath. Lon Kruger did alright at Florida for a while. Certainly not BD level. Ok...back to the original topic if I may.... Depth. What is depth? To me it means a lot of things. First, I do believe some teams play with shorter bench and some don't in top 25. mixed. and it depends on the year and what they have. I do believe a kid getting 7-10 minutes a game can provide value to starters, can provide value to himself for experience in situations. Sometimes, you will notice a former starter turns into that 7 minute guy because that 7 minute guy did well. Depth. To me, it means being able to practive against high level competition every day in practice. Depth to me is seeing a red shirt high school All-American practicing every day with the team and providing value. Dpeth to me is a transfer who sits out and dogs his starting teammate every day in practice. Depth to me is an academically ineligible Freshman lighting it up in practice every day, again providing value to the team. Depth matters to many/most if not all teams. A SLU practice? I can't imagine Lisch, Lidell at practice. Obviously teams with great talented starters need less minutes for others. Depth isn't just looking in a box score and counting how many guys play. It is so much more than that. As is talent, as is coaching etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 is florida's facilities less than or equal to slu? does florida get residual effects of the football team's media exposure? tell me about the athletic dept staff at florida and how they compare experience and agewise to the slu athletic dept? and you brought out the other question that comes to mind, what is the florida recruiting budget as compared to slu's? what is the entire florida basketball budget as compared to slu's? last, do you think the previous ncaa experience before donovan gives donovan a leg up with recruiting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Roy but the Bills only go seven deep and only when he has to. The others teams all go 8,9, or 10 deep. Our starter are going to start running out of gas. I would say Ian already has. It gets tiring dragging around three guys a night for thirty minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 and no where did i say anything different. all i have said is that many very good teams dont use more than we do on player rotation and minutes played. that is the only point i intended to make. i have no idea where moytoy is coming with this duke's 7th man = slu's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 no i am pointing out that the difference is more about those players that are all playing 35 minutes a game. you are making the next jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUSER Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Donovan vs Soderburg? who would you rather have? (please say Soderburg so the entire message board can see how big of an idiot you are) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Because you said that you couldn't judge without stats whether Duke et al. have better bench players than SLU. Does it really take stats to know the answer to this? Repitition is for the sake of pointing out how ridiculous your "i don't know without stats" response is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 i just pointed out all the teams that did not go substantially past their 6th man and used 3-4 players 30+ minutes per game. more do than dont. sure teams use a few players for 2-3 minutes occassionally, but even you said that most average 8 players 8 minutes or more. that was exactly what my point was. teams dont use 9,10 or more players for substantial minutes. it is typically a starting five and a couple of players. just like the billikens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 "just like the billikens." No, not just like the Billikens. why? Because those teams have bench players that are better than SLU's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 brian, i gave you the 8 players 8 minutes instead of 7 players 10 minutes. what else do you want. even you have to admit that the thought of 9 or 10 players playing significant minutes is just not true. so what havent i admitted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 whatever. that was never my point. the string was to point out that teams typically do not use more than 7 or 8 players per game and that most top teams also play 3-4 players 30+ minutes per game. it has become a common point that the billikens are in trouble because they dont play 9,10 or 11 players significant minutes each game. i only wanted to point out that it is actually rare that any team does that. the norm is a rotation that is the same as the billikens. i never said in the post that started this thread anything about the quality of the 7th man. you brought that into the equation and i asked how do we quanify it. it was never my point. so why do i have to defend it? i never said it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 "it has become a common point that the billikens are in trouble because they dont play 9,10 or 11 players significant minutes each game." Really, so significant that i can't remember anyone bitching about SLU not playing 10 or 11 players significant minutes. Really...people wanted our walk-ons playing significant minutes? Roy, the thrust of your point is "look, SLU has the same team depth as the top 25, so there must be an issue besides our team depth." Debate that all you want and talk about how you didn't say it precisely like that or that you didn't bring quality into the equation. But you did, when you mentioned the players of the team. We aren't dealing with numbers in the abstract, your original point is necessarily tied to the quality of players of those teams. So to say "oh, look, SLU runs the same number of players on the court as the big programs" necessarily brings up the quality of those players. Why do you have to defend the quality of our depth because you once said that this was the deepest team in years. Much like the numbers, these posts aren't in the abstract either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.