billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 to see how many of those teams have great depth. i expected all these teams to be using 9 and 10 players. ucla 7 guys played all but 9 of the available 200 minutes. 3 guys played 32+ minutes. btw, their opponent, az state, had 7 players play all but one of the available minutes and 5 guys played 30+. arizona had 6 players only play over 10 minutes. 3 of them played at least 38 minutes. duke used 7 players for 10+ minutes. 3 played 34+ minutes. oregon only had 6 players play more than 10 minutes. 4 starters played 30 minutes +. #13 Nevada had 7 players play 10+ minutes and 4 played 30+ minutes. it seems a short rotation has become more the norm than most thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 What are our 6-8 guys getting on average? I don't have the minutes in front of me, but it seems that while we may go 7...even 8 deep some games, #'s 7 and 8 aren't really playing long/quality minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 we have 7 guys averaging 11 minutes a game or better. about the same as what it appeared the top 25 teams are using their players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaginCajun Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Roy, look at Florida. They probably only play seven guys a significant amount of minutes, but four of those guys are first round draft picks and I am sure they have guys on the bench who can at least be productive when called on. SLU not only does not play its bench, but it can't play its bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 As Cajun notes below though, #'s 6 and 7 are a significant drop in quality of player from SLU's 1-5 players and especially when considered against the top 25 teams' 6th and 7th players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 My problem with the rotation is that it is getting shorter as the season progresses. The only way other people outside of the top 7 are getting minutes is when some one is so tired they are about to drop or someone is injure. It also seem like the players outside of the starting five are allowed two mistakes, most of the time one, before they are pulled for the rest of the game. This leads to them player scared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 so if i go to ucla or arizona or duke or nevada or oregon's season stats, their 7th man is going to have stats that is significantly better than danny brown and justin johnson? i havent done that yet, but i just wanted to clarify your supposed fact statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 brian, i just showed you that almost all the top teams are only playing 7 players for most of the minutes. so why will ours get more tired than arizona's or duke's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 cajun said, "look at Florida. They probably only play seven guys a significant amount of minutes, but four of those guys are first round draft picks" even if it made sense to compare the billikens to the defending national champions that brought back an entire roster, your point is that their top 4 is so much better so that makes their depth superior. how do we prove that? i think you are saying that their top 4 players are better than ours. i would be inclined to agree that top 5 teams have better top 4 players than the billikens. that might have more to do with why they are in the top 5 than the coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 No, it's all relative. But what i'm saying is Duke's, Arizona's, Oregon's and probably Nevada's (this year) 6th or 7th man is significantly better than either DB or JJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 It's about quality of depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 how do we judge that if the stats wont tell and the minutes played arent significantly different? all i am saying is that it appears it is actually the exception for teams to use players past the 7th man for significant minutes and it is common that teams are using the select 3 or 4 players for 30+ minutes a game. the reason the billikens are not a top 25 team has less to do with the team depth and more to do with the fact that the starting five is not as good as top 25 teams. but typical depth is apparently about a 7 or 8 man rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 My God, you and Brad's wife are about the only two people on the planet that think Brad is actually doing a good job. All you ahve to say about our horrible depth problem is that one guy got hurt and all of a sudden a walk-on was playing critical minutes in a road conference game. Its that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 So, the quality of our 6th, 7th, and 8th players are close to the quality of UCLA, Duke, Arizona, etc.? Pass me some of what you're smoking. "how do we judge that if the stats wont tell and the minutes played arent significantly different?" You have eyes right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I believe the HC must be factored into the discussion...he recruited the players. I don't remember the Florida Gators being squat in hoops until Billy D came on the scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Drew, this is ridiculous. If Roy can't see how ridiculous his comparisons are in this thread, then there is absolutely no getting through to him. If our 6th, 7th and 8th players are close to the quality of the Duke's, Arizona's, and UCLA's, then why the hell aren't they starters at SLU?? In roy's eyes, coffey (a walk-on at SLU) is equal to Duke's 8th player...LMAO!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Here is a sample of top 25 five teams. The each go at least 8 deap in getting 8 minutes a game. Most go nine or ten deap. SLU goes seven because you can not include BH cause he has played in less than half the games. http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/teams/dau/stats http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/teams/nav/stats http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/teams/uaa/stats http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/teams/aaq/stats http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/teams/wbg/stats http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/teams/oad/stats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 when was the last time i said brad is doing a good job? i think there are factors that dont allow us to judge fairly the job he is doing. as to me being all alone in my thoughts, if that was true, then davidnark's poll today would be 17-1 not the 9-9 it stands at right now. i think there are more folks that agree there are extenuating circumstances than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaginCajun Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I disagree. We tend to look pretty solid when our starting five is fresh and playing together and I think they can certainly compete with a top 25 team. The problem comes when those guys start getting tired. You put Justin Johnson for Ian or Luke, since he is a guard battling his ass off against legitimate power forwards, and the quality of your drops immensely. Then you put Danny Brown in for Polk and the quality of our team drops even more. Justin Johnson is ###### and he really hurts this team. Danny is often a non-factor scoring the ball while turning the ball over and constantly getting blown by on defense. These two hurt our team a lot. I think I would consider our starting five to be a top 25 caliber group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 so "depth" is defined by 8 players getting 8 minutes a game not 7 players getting 10 minutes a game? got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 i only said, that we use a similar rotation to all the teams in the top 25 in the nation that played last night. but nice job twisting the words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Run all the players out there you want, if they aren't quality players, then your depth is crap. You think we have similar depth to the big bball programs? Honestly? UB is considering using a walk-on as his 2nd man off the bench for god's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 It is Roy. It is how you keep your starting five fresh and injury free. I like you as a poster, but you NEVER admit when you are wrong. Link you to the stats that prove your original post is wrong and you still can't admit it. Fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 No we don't but you still got to give your guys a blow are they will drop dead. They don't have to be high school all-americans they just have to give you minutes here and there with out everything falling apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 "the reason the billikens are not a top 25 team has less to do with the team depth and more to do with the fact that the starting five is not as good as top 25 teams. but typical depth is apparently about a 7 or 8 man rotation." Those are your words. Typical depth is apparently a 7-8 rotation per your words and you say SLU has similar team depth to the top 25 teams. I countered and said depth is more than just running 7-8 guys out there. It's about quality. You haven't addressed the quality of our 6th, 7th, and 8th guys as compared to the top 25. So, when you make statements that SLU has similar team depth and are non-responsive, then i'm going to read between the lines. Are our 6th, 7th, and 8th players as good as Duke's, UCLA's and Arizona's? Or would you guesstimate that there is a significant drop in talent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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