inthelou Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 Exactly. Money is a great reason. But you are the one that started the thing about "academic institutions" and my point is that a lot these great academic institutions "stoop" and play in conferences with lesser instituions for the financial well being and competitive attractiveness to their SPORTS programs. And where are all these great revenue streams from the A-10? Nobody can tell me the money, through saved travel, attendance and local interest AND eventually TV wouldn't be better in the MVC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Looking back to SLU's conference history might make this clearer. SLU was a member of the Missouri Valley Conference (as was Wash U at one time). SLU left the MVC in the 1970's along with Louisville, Cincinnati, and Memphis to form the Metro. The stated reason was the bigger TV markets, as Tulane (New Orleans) and Georgia Tech (Atlanta) were the other charter members of the Metro. The other reason was not wanting to go to all the other Valley outposts. And although MVC supporters don't like to hear it, that is still an issue. The only current MVC schools that were MVC members back then are Bradley (an old SLU rival), Drake, and Wichita State. SLU struggled to compete in the Metro. By 1982 the basketball program had hit rock bottom, and there were fears that SLU would drop to Division 2. But SLU hired Rich Grawer and moved to the MCC (now Horizon League), where Grawer was able to resuscitate the program. Eventually Marquette became a member of the MCC. DePaul, then an independent, led the charge to form the Great Midwest, and SLU, Marquette, and Dayton all joined the GMC. Old rivals Memphis and Cincinnati, along with UAB also joined. Xavier was left behind due to the presence of Cincinnati. The GMC had great potential and seemed like the perfect place for SLU. But the GMC could not get Louisville to join. Eventually, the GMC and Metro underwent a de facto merger to form C-USA. This time Dayton was left behind. Note that unlike the original formation of the Metro, SLU had little to do with either of these later moves; SLU was more along for the ride. C-USA was a strong league. But then came the more recent domino effect that started when Boston College and Miami bolted the Big East for the ACC. Attempting to stay a BCS league in football, the Big East went after Louisville and Cincinnati from C-USA. Notre Dame had old established basketball rivalries with Marquette and DePaul, and those two were invited to the Big East too. Just like that, SLU was a nomad, with 3 real choices: staying in the watered down version of C-USA, in which the only rival left was Memphis, return to the MVC, which was a vastly different league than when SLU left it in the 1970's, or go to the Atlantic 10. By going to the A-10, SLU was reunited with Xavier and Dayton. Further, SLU has increased visibility on the East Coast, and is better positioned for the next conference shift, if it ever happens. From the inception of the new 16 team Big East, with its split between football and non-football playing schools, many have expected that league to eventually break apart. However, that has not yet happened. SLU had rivalries with DePaul, Marquette, Louisville, and Cincinnati. Those were all lost. In the MCC days, SLU used to have healthy rivalries with Xavier and Dayton; those have been restored by the move to the A-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 >Exactly. Money is a great reason. But you are the one that >started the thing about "academic institutions" and my point >is that a lot these great academic institutions "stoop" and >play in conferences with lesser instituions for the >financial well being and competitive attractiveness to their >SPORTS programs. > >And where are all these great revenue streams from the A-10? >Nobody can tell me the money, through saved travel, >attendance and local interest AND eventually TV wouldn't be >better in the MVC. Always seems to be a new MVC person everyday on here...if only they would just all come at once, get their info and be gone. First and foremeost, this is Steve's board. He runs it, and he and the other moderators decide the content of the board. Next, you posted saying there is a reason why U of Chicago is not in the Big Ten. I replied by saying schools can succeed academically and athletically. We can go back to that yet again if you like? Or can we just move forward? Great. As was also pointed out to you, plenty of strong academic schools in the major conferences as well. You ignored them. Yes, some small 6000 student private schools take their lumps vs the 50,000 student schools and in turn get money to pump back into their academics. The MVC as I pointed out doesn't bring any of this $$ value to SLU. They also don't bring the academic value. They also don't bring the any likeness as far as being an urban inner city private school. They also don't bring any value to big city exposure for a multitude of things. They also don't bring big local interest value. SLU has been playing MVC teams for years, and those teams wnever outdrew the games vs past conference rivals built by competitive play and other factors not relating to geographic distance. SLU's first choice was Big East, and didn't cut it, and they were left with A10 and MVC, A10 was clearly the better choice of the only two choices they really had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Hmmm I think the school gets alot more money donated for academics than they do for athletics. I may be wrong, but I also believe they got a crap load of money donated to build a research center much quicker than they got the money for the arena. Somebody must care, sounds to me like you are just hanging around with the wrong crowd. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 what difference does what kind of board this is have to do with why SLU joined the A10. Steve, were you consulted? Was anyone on the board? If so, I'm pissed, I wasn't? That has to be some kind of discrimination. Any of you lawyers think I have a case? I'll split 50/50. The decision wasn't based soley on sports, so the discussion as to why they switched can't be made using sports only. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthelou Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 It proves my point. If it was all about academics they'd be the Big 10 but it's not. The Big Ten conference is mainly about sports. That proves my point. What "academic" value is there in playing Fordham in basketball because they have good business school? I really don't get the "academic value" of traveling to East Coast and playing some team nobody gives a crap about in basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecrewfinance Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 I'm not entirely positive on numbers, but I believe that Fordham (soccer) and UMass (ditto) were both ranked during the last season; both were hot out of the gate. URI has made the tournament in each of the last two years via the conference tourney in the same sport. I'm not sure about the valley, and I don't remember our results against MoSt. over the last few years...They did have a pretty good team, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 >It proves my point. If it was all about academics they'd be >the Big 10 but it's not. The Big Ten conference is mainly >about sports. That proves my point. > >What "academic" value is there in playing Fordham in >basketball because they have good business school? > >I really don't get the "academic value" of traveling to East >Coast and playing some team nobody gives a crap about in >basketball. I'll start with your last comment first. You make the large and wrong assumption that fans attending SLU games care about the MVC. If this were the case, why wouldn't more people go when the MVC teams are scheduled? And I am talking about years and years and now. Why is that? And surely those "neighboring" schools would come to STL to see their team play SLU in big numbers. Right? Surely the local tv ratings would be through the roof? The term academic value was used with many other listed reasons as to why SLU didn't choose to play in the MVC. It's meaning in the list was used to point out yet another thing that SLU and the MVC schools do not have in common. Collectively adding up all of the pro's and cons etc...is how one comes to a decision. And last on a seperate note...last time I checked, Michigan Wisconsin, Northwestern, etc...were monster academic schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Very well summarized. As you mention, and is often overlooked, possibly the best aspect of the A-10 is that SLU can rekindle its ties with XU and UD while developing new ties with St. Joe in the event the "Catholic Conference" ever materializes. Not that far-fetched to think that the Big East could shift more toward football leaving DePaul, Marquette, St. John, Villanova and Georgetown looking elsewhere. I truly believe, and hope, that these 12, 14 and 16 member conferences break apart and conferences go back to 8 and 10 members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 >Very well summarized. As you mention, and is often >overlooked, possibly the best aspect of the A-10 is that SLU >can rekindle its ties with XU and UD while developing new >ties with St. Joe in the event the "Catholic Conference" >ever materializes. Not that far-fetched to think that the >Big East could shift more toward football leaving DePaul, >Marquette, St. John, Villanova and Georgetown looking >elsewhere. >I truly believe, and hope, that these 12, 14 and 16 member >conferences break apart and conferences go back to 8 and 10 >members. I think an ideal number is 12 for a conference. With that said, the B.E. is thriving. It is going from 16 game conference schedule to 18 game conference schedule. I wouldn't be waiting for a "Catholic Conference" any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgfan Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 In summary: We are an elite class, in terms of intellect, culture, and of course, moral values. We are sophisticated, inner-city dwelling urbanites, insulated by our wealth, dignity, intelligence, and general aura from the drab and dreary plight of other, less fortunate, rural midwesterners. We do not wish to mingle with the common rabble, even if only at an athletic event, in such abyss-like settings as Omaha, Wichita, Des Moines, and God forbid.....Carbondale. We have chosen a path that aligns us with other openminded "correct" people. We are SLU, and we belong in the A10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 1. MVC supporters and their friends in the media still want to beat that dead horse. MVC supporters and the media keep raising the subject and don't like the answers they receive. 2. Why do the Valley supporters have such an obsession with SLU? Could it be that the Valley supporters would like the increased visibility of having a member from the 18th biggest media market and a member that is nationally ranked academically? Interesting. Insults have been directed at Fordham in this thread. None of those points mentioned that SLU is playing in the #1 media market today. Articles will be written on today's game in Sunday's New York papers. 3. The current MVC has only 3 members that were members when SLU was last a member of the MVC in the mid-1970's: Bradley, Drake, and Wichita State. 4. As for SIU itself, what is the reason for any complaint? SLU has played and continues to play SIU every year. And SLU plays every other year in Carbondale. It has been and still is a good rivalry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenexpress Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 > >second, try to look at the a-10 decision outside of >basketball. how many prospective students do you think come >to slu from murphysboro, illinois (town close to carbondale) >or from shoals, indiana (town close to evansville)? now >think about prospective students from Philly, New York, >Boston, Washington DC, Charlotte, Cincy, etc. there is no >doubt that our school will be become more visible in those >cities now that we are in the Atlantic 10 than if we hadnt. >Who do you think Father Biondi believes is the typical >future slu undergrads? the rural outer midwesterner, or the >urbanites? > >80% of the student body at SIU is from northern Illinois...that would be the Chicago area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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