Duff Man

Ooooh, I'm very sorry Clock_Tower. I didn't get that message. Maybe you should've put it on the bulletin board.

I think Manning will benefit just from being a Starter when it comes to foul trouble. There's a certain amount of contact that defenders can get away with. White backup centers do not typically get much benefit of the doubt on borderline calls where this is some contact.

This is 2 weeks old (following Willie's big game vs the Celtics from the above clip), but here you have the Pacers SB Nation site (i.e. their equivalent of Viva El Birdos) focused on Willie Who is Willie Reed, Again? http://www.indycornrows.com/2014/7/8/5881753/indiana-pacers-summer-league-who-is-willie-reed-again Ultimately they conclude that the roster is too deep at power forward (David West and a bunch of guys better than Willie, including Lavoy Allen), but it's still kind of nuts that there is a thread on the Internet where actual NBA fans were clamoring for their team to retain the services of a former Billiken.

Willie didn't really get his sh1t together until he went undrafted, and toiled for a year in the D League. He was a talented but very flawed player in 2009-2010. His FT shooting cost us the Jordan Crawford game. His low post moves were very awkward and seemed to get by more on raw athleticism than basketball skill. That year off would have only made him worse. Kwamain never really got back to his vintage form, and he had a much better work ethic than Willie. Not to mention what would have WR's presence done to inhibit the development of first team all A10 Brian Conklin. You can play this what-if game all you want If Upchurch had been admitted... If Larry had stayed 2-3 years... If Jordair hadn't effed up his back on that garbage time alley oop... If Carter had stuck around... If Willie had gotten his act together and stayed in school... I'm sure we'd have 3 or 4 Sweet 16s and at least 2 Final Fours...Go ahead and try to prove otherwise...it's impossible!

I'd be very surprised if anyone can find a pre-season publication from 1997, period. You make a fair point that the 1997-98 team exceeded expectations. I doubt they'd have been in any pre-season Bracketology projections had they existed back then. That said, any team with a McDonalds All-American has to be considered (at worst) a dark horse contender for an NCAA bid. Baniak was pretty highly touted and was expected to step in and contribute right away. Jeff Harris was the only good* player who wasn't coming back, and he was not an efficient offensive player (12.9 PPG as a low post player on 41.9% shooting). There was certainly hope - if not expectation - that Hughes could get them back into the dance his freshman year. My main point is that 1 NCAA bid and 1 NCAA win was an underwhelming return for the Larry Hughes era. That season had some big wins early (Illinois at the Dome, Hughes going off @ Methdale), but it never really had the season defining statement game down the stretch...like the 1994 Cincy game, the 2012 Xavier game, or take your pick from about half a dozen games over the last 2 seasons. In fact, the 1998 team got blown out by 27 at home by 17th ranked Cincy in front of a national ESPN audience. The 1997-98 team beat the teams they were supposed to beat and lost to the teams they were supposed to lose to, and won enough of their coin flip games to have a bid worthy resume. They got an NCAA win vs UMass then get blown off the court against Kentucky. They were never ranked. It was a nice bounceback year, but not a high water mark. and that's really where the Hughes era fell short...he failed to lift the Billikens to new heights. It's not his fault Spoonhour failed to recruit better players in the years prior to his arrival, and he was smart to leave when he did. But the fact remains that when he committed to SLU, there was an expectation that this would be a game changer that would permanently alter the trajectory of the program. That didn't happen. It fell short our expectations. If Jayson Tatum comes to SLU and they don't reach a new high water mark (crack the top 5, make the Sweet 16) in his 1 and done year, it'll be the same bittersweet story. *Jeremy Biles and Rasheed Malik were the 3rd and 4th leading scorers on a bad team. Biles was mediocre. Malik was average. Nobody was particularly worried about how we would survive without them. I challenge you to produce the minutes from a Billiken club meeting that proves otherwise.

Willie Reed was number 1 on your list. "He didn't disappoint on the court. But he was a tease." How does that not apply to Larry? Just because Larry was a lottery pick while Willie went undrafted is beside the point. From the SLU perspective, they both left early and missed out on playing on teams that made the dance without them.

This is kind of a negative, self loathing topic but I guess that's appropriate given the history of the program. It pre-dates the 2000 cutoff, but Larry Hughes has to be on the list. This isn't a criticism of Larry, as it was the smart move on pretty much every level except perhaps basketball development (and even that is impossible to really know) - we all know the situation with his brother, and ultimately he was a lottery pick, and hit the free agency jackpot at 26. If he'd hit free agency at 27 or 28 after a year or two of diminishing returns, he'd have got nowhere near the money he got from Cleveland. Not to mention there's a chance he blows out his knee at SLU and misses the boat completely. There's a fantasy world (alternate reality) where he stays at SLU, develops a jumpshot in his sophomore and junior seasons and is still in the NBA at age 35, but more likely he'd have had basically the same career (minus the great playoff series against the Magic when he was a 20 year old rookie coming off the bench and playing alongside young Iverson), made a lot less money, and had 1 or 2 less NBA seasons where Justin was able to see him. all that said, when Larry Hughes committed to SLU, nobody was expecting 1 and done, ending with a blowout loss in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament (granted it to eventual National Champions). Hughes and Tatum never played together at SLU. Hughes and Love never played together at SLU. Just think of how awesome the Miracle in Memphis team would have been if Larry Hughes were playing as a Junior with those guys. I know it's easy to look back now - especially with the parallel of Jayson Tatum - to think oh yeah, obviously Larry was a 1 and done...but 1 and dones were not common yet at that time. KG had only recently re-broken the HS to NBA barrier, and while plenty of players left college early, you didn't see many freshman getting drafted. 1998 First Round (Lottery) Sr: 13 (5) Jr: 7 (5) So: 2 (1) Fr: 2 (1*) HS: 1 (0) Foreign: 4 (1) *Hughes was drafted 8th, just ahead of Dirk Nowitzki and Paul Pierce. Hughes was the youngest lottery pick player taken. 1997 First Round (Lottery) Sr: 18 (6) Jr: 5 (3) So: 2 (2) Fr: 1 (1) HS: 1 (1) Foreign: 1 (0) 1996 First Round (Lottery) Sr: 11 (2) Jr: 5 (4) So: 4 (4) Fr: 2 (2) HS: 2 (1) Foreign: 5 (0) 1995 First Round (Lottery) Sr: 19 (6) Jr: 5 (2) So: 4 (4) Fr: 0 (0) HS: 1 (1) Foreign: 0 (0) Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Stephon Marbury, and Tim Thomas were the only first round 1 and dones before Larry. Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Jermaine O'Neal, and Tracy McGrady were the only first round HS players drafted before Larry Hughes. Simply put, the expectation was that he'd play at least 2, maybe 3 years - possibly even 4. Tim Duncan and Keith Van Horne went 1-2 as seniors in the draft prior to Larry's freshman year - it's wasn't unfathomable for a great college player to stay 4 years. Shane Battier was in the same HS class as Larry and stuck around 4 years (and won a title). The fear of him leaving after 1 year didn't even enter my mind until Baron Davis blew out his ACL during the NCAA tournament at the same site (Georgia Done) where SLU was playing (i.e. right in front of Larry).

Bonner was a late first round (24th*?) pick by the Sacramento Kings. There were 27 teams in the NBA, and I'm pretty sure it was in the 20s. I believe he was the last of the Kings 4 first round picks in the 1990 draft. I had his basketball card back in the early 90s and this information was on the back. Bonner has multiple split second cameos in the June 17th 1994 30 for 30. Pre-game huddle, center of the frame initially screened by Pat Riley https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4A1ayt3Jwc&t=1874 Chest bumping Anthony Mason heading into a timeout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4A1ayt3Jwc&t=2514 *didn't look

If they go by most recent, shouldn't Coach K be behind Bob Hoffman?

Mason is an idiot for not reporting his license lost to the DMV and keeping a legit undoctored ID handy for police inquiries. That sort of thing really should be covered at freshman orientation.

Matta coaches at Ohio St, which MB73 will probably write off as being too much of a professional program.

Herb Sendek is hardly a "pro", and has a much more impressive coaching tree than Coach K Thad Matta (14 Years, 377-114, .768 W-L%, 23-12 NCAA, 2 Final Four) Sean Miller (10 Years, 249-95, .724 W-L%, 14-7 NCAA) John Groce (6 Years, 128-84, .604 W-L%, 4-3 NCAA) Charlie Coles (22 Years, 357-311, .534 W-L%, 2-4 NCAA) Jim Christian (12 Years, 242-154, .611 W-L%, 0-2 NCAA) Ron Hunter (16 Years, 283-216, .567 W-L%, 0-1 NCAA) Coach K Mike Brey (19 Years, 399-211, .654 W-L%, 6-11 NCAA) Tommy Amaker (17 Years, 315-210, .600 W-L%, 4-4 NCAA) Jeff Capel (9 Years, 175-110, .614 W-L%, 4-3 NCAA) Quin Snyder (7 Years, 128-96, .571 W-L%, 5-4 NCAA) Johnny Dawkins (6 Years, 117-87, .574 W-L%, 2-1 NCAA)

Coach K has the NCAA titles and the Final 4s, but his coaching tree is not all that impressive at this point in time. Rick Pitino has the most impressive coaching tree of any active NCAA coach, although there is a strong case for Larry Brown. Pitino has protégés who have protégés who have more impressive protégés than Coach K. Really, who is on Coach K's list? Mike Brey (career 6-11 NCAA tournament record), Johnny Dawkins (1 NCAA tournament in 6 years), Tommy Amaker (he's done well at Harvard, but mediocre before that), Jeff Capel (made 3 NCAA tournaments in 9 years at VCU and Oklahoma, has been a head coach since 2011), Quin Snyder (5-4 NCAA tournament record, hired by the Jazz), Wojo just got hired by Marquette, Chris Collins has coached a year at Northwestern That's not a very impressive list. Am I missing anyone? No Final Fours that I can think of. Now compare that with Pitino... Billy Donovan and Tubby Smith both won NCAA titles. Jeff van Gundy, Frank Vogel, Jim O'Brien, Stu Jackson, and Reggie Theus all coached in the NBA. Herb Sendek has taken 3 different programs to the NCAA tournament, and had Thad Matta, Sean Miller, and John Groce serve as assistants under him. Mick Cronin, Travis Ford, Marvin Menzies, and Steve Masiello have all been successful college coaches. Richard Pitino's career is off to a promising start. Larry Brown's coaching tree includes Gregg Popovich (who is officially in the GOAT discussion), Bill Self (16 regular season conference championships in 21 seasons including 10 straight Big 12, 7 conference tournaments, 36-15 NCAA tournament record, 2 Final Fours, 1 National Championship), and John Calipari (the best of the sleazy). Not exactly a lightweight. By those standards, I'm not sure you can even consider Coach K's protégés successful at all.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/jazz/2014/06/06/quin-snyder-utah-head-coach-missouri-duke-dleague/10099729/ "Quin Snyder combines a unique skill set with several intangibles that makes him the right fit for our team and approach to basketball," Lindsey said. "He is passionate about the game and has a 20-year track record of teaching and developing young talent. His personality, work ethic and communications skills are important traits that will benefit the Utah Jazz. We have taken a significant and exciting step forward in the evolution of this franchise." I don't know if he actually banged Linas Kleiza's girlfriend or not...I don't know if he's still a cokehead...but the above is a laughable statement

Coach K has been bounced from the dance 2 of the last 3 seasons, as a 2-seed and a 3-seed. No effing way he's #1. Donovan would be a good choice.

H Waldman and Bill Clinton met at a Fayetteville titty bar VIP room after this game, and remain friends to this day...

When the facts do not help MB73, he chooses to change the subject. The Heisman Trophy is irrelevant to this discussion. Heisman winners are disproportionately awarded to QBs of National Title contenders. Often times the QBs of the best teams do not project as NFL QBs. Fact: No SEC defensive player of the year has ever gone undrafted. They started giving separate offensive and defensive awards in 2003. Here are the players to have won the award. 2003: Chad Lavalais, Drafted 2004, 5th round, 142 overall 2004: David Pollack, Drafted 2005, 1st round, 17 overall 2005: DeMeco Ryans, Drafted 2006, 2nd round, 33 overall 2006: Patrick Willis, Drafted 2007, 1st round, 11 overall 2007: Glenn Dorsey, Drafted 2008, 1st round, 5 overall 2008: Eric Berry, Drafted 2010, 1st round, 5 overall 2009: Rolando McClain, Drafted 2010, 1st round, 8 overall 2010: Nick Fairley, Drafted 2011, 1st round, 13 overall 2011: Morris Claiborne, Drafted 2012, 1st round, 6 overall 2012 (Coaches): Jadeveon Clowney, Drafted 2014, 1st round, 1 overall 2012 (AP): Jarvis Jones, Drafted 2013, 1st round, 17 overall 2013 (Coaches): C. J. Mosley, Drafted 2014, 1st round, 17 overall 2013 (AP): Michael Sam, Drafted 2014, 7th round, 249 overall Prior to 2003, there was only 1 SEC player of the year award, and it almost always went to an offensive player. Here are the defensive players to win SEC player of the year, with their NFL draft position. 2002: David Pollack, Drafted 2005, 1st round, 17 overall 1988: Tracy Rocker, Drafted 1989, 3rd round, 66 overall 1983: Reggie White, Drafted 1984 supplemental draft (for USFL players), 1st round, 4 overall 1968: Jake Scott, Drafted 1970, 7th round, 159 overall 1957: Lou Michaels, Drafted 1958, 1st round, 4 overall

Deeply sorry for your loss. Hang in there, duder.

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/RadioShows/TheDriveHome/tabid/319/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/13052/The-Drive-Home-50714.aspx

TMZ - the sleazeball tabloid publication that misidentifies Hughes as a former "Knicks star" is hardly a reliable source Ex-Knick Larry Hughes questioned and released by NYPD after 22-year-old woman makes rape allegation: sources http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ex-knick-larry-hughes-released-woman-rape-allegation-sources-article-1.1761230 Former Knick Larry Hughes was briefly questioned Friday at the 1st Precinct stationhouse Friday after a 22-year-old woman accused him of raping her at the Trump SoHo Hotel, sources told the Daily News. Hughes met the woman at the club Greenhouse on Varick St. and they left together around 4 a.m. Friday, sources said. Video shows the two of them walking to the nearby hotel. Sources said he did not appear to be forcing her. After she left the hotel she went to New York-Presbyterian Hospital Weill Cornell with a friend and told doctors she had been raped, sources said. Police went to the hotel to talk to Hughes, 35, who was led away in handcuffs because he didn’t want to go with cops. Hughes was released a short time later and has not been charged. Ex-Knick Larry Hughes released without charge after cops cuffed him in SoHo http://nypost.com/2014/04/18/ex-knick-larry-hughes-busted-at-trump-soho-hotel/ Former Knicks player Larry Hughes was walked out of the Trump SoHo hotel in handcuffs Friday after a night of partying at notorious club Greenhouse, which he partly owns. Hughes, 35, was questioned at the 1st Precinct about an earlier incident at the luxury hotel and was then released without being charged, sources said.

okay, so he did take off from inside the line and even if it wasn't you can't score a 3 for the other team...fine, it's still a blooper rather than a highlight Reminds me of this (1:30 mark)