courtside

Like Speiss in that regard. Przybeck is no longer on St. John's team. He played in one game this year. No info as to why just the one game.

Okay...actually on topic....unbelievable.... The question isn't about past years. It was "What do you think about Vashon's CURRENT ranking?" Reputation should not come into play at all...isn't that the problem in college athletics? Haven't we all learned from those mistakes? I wanted to stay on topic though...I do think it should be noted WHO they play during their streak, and that the streak includes s playoff small school run, not large schools. Those FACTS can be added without losing sight of their good play. This isn't stick up for or bash Vashon hour.....it is objective, fact based, positive, negative, indifferent....if it wasn't I would have corrected the poster who referenced Irons taking his Skyhawks team off the floor, ...no I was refering to the times he has done it with his Vashon team, regular season and state tourney....You started a reply with "I'll note his faults." and then took a pass.....and ran wild with some sort of angst against me or DeSmet or whomever.... If you are going to throw out random things with no basis, in reference to me, I'll call you out every time.

AJ's comments: "It changed this year. By the way, DeSmet and other schools were in favor of the formula that dropped Vashon down to 4A. They got tired of Vashon kicking their butts. Fortunately, Vashon's enrollment increased enough to go back to 5A. Floyd Irons was consistent in his displeasure at having to drop in classification. He's on regularly on Sunday nights on 1600 am, if you want to know what he's thinking. I agree that Vashon's schedule is relatively weak, but I take issue with Courtside saying he's a very good coach. I've heard him discuss Vashon before, so I know his take. He thinks Floyd Irons wins more because of his talent and not coaching acumen. Now I won't dispute that Irons MIGHT be recruiting, but watch his teams. They are well-drilled and execute seamlessly. Therefore, I consider him a little better than just very good." Well....Actually no, DeSmet wasn't in favor of Vashon dropping down. This is the same DeSmet that used to schedule Vashon every year, and beat them most years at home and lost most years on road. Vashon ended the series. DeSmet is one of those schools that long had 600-700 plus students, but ALWAYS playing nothing less than the largest classification, and toughest opponents in all sports in the area. Their enrollment has risen in recent years to more of a large school size. It would help to have facts before just throwing things at a wall hoping something sticks. In the other quote....I am glad you "know" what you say I think about Iron's coaching. Amazingly enough I don't see any facts to support what you are saying. If you want to know, just ask as opposed to pathetically making up whatever you feel like saying and attributing it to me. How sad for you. AJ continued..."I have a problem with his antics and childish behavior at times, but his teams are the most fundamentally sound teams I've seen in St. Louis the last few years. No other St. Louis team comes close to them in terms of FUNDAMENTALS, and that includes your favorite team of DeSmet." ....again sadly AJ looking for an argument with me, really no other reason than to throw out anything and hope it sticks...but let's actually look at your comments specifically using DeSmet as the example....Well actually I noticed your post said last couple of years....as opposed to over Irons' coaching career at Vashon. The reason DeSmet and a few other schools have had success vs Vashon and other area teams is their fundamentals. Let's actually be objective. DeSmet lacks TALENT this year, which is their first losing season I believe EVER in the history of their school. It doesn't have a lot to do with fundamentals. They are starting Sophomores and younger because they have to....The sad part here, is no one disputed the fundamentals of Vashon players...and let's not even bother with the recruitng aspect of players. Be careful of also throwing out recruiting comments of high school players. In actuality over the years I have heard more of the comments, too bad DeSmet doesn't recruit. sigh.....after a relatively normal post of mine that din't knock anyone...we could have jsut accepted the one line AJ actually slipped in there, and could have had a one line post...."I agree Vashon's schedule is relatively weak." Nobody is bashing them for it, that is all that needed to be said...hey good team, weak schedule...the end.

Amazing that someone(AJ) in a thread about schedules and rankings, could find issue with the comment that Vashon has a strong team with a very good coach. Absolutely amazing. If you have to look that deep jsut to disagree or argue...WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1) The thread is about Vashon's national ranking in the 2004-05 school year. Amazing how the rest of the threads had nothing to do with the post. So...let's break it down with actual facts and stick to the point. Now, the question was what do people think of Vashon's national ranking? Well, I think I answered that above. This particular season their schedule hasn't warranted enough national success imo, but others can form their own opinions wither way.I was asked for and gave mine....the chicago teams played are not ranked in top 20 Chicago area poll, Charleston and Louisville Male have losing records so far this season. Fri, 11/26/04 7 p.m. T vs Bylalia at New Madrid W 61-50 . Sat, 11/27/04 7 p.m. T vs Westminster, AR W 41-38 . Thu, 12/2/04 6:15 p.m. L vs Roosevelt (1-4, 1-14) at Cleveland W 81-23 . Sat, 12/4/04 5 p.m. N vs Chicago Austin at Family Arena W 57-31 . Sun, 12/5/04 4 p.m. N vs Niles West at Family Arena W 48-45 . Thu, 12/9/04 6:15 p.m. L at Gateway Tech (4-1, 6-7) W 90-27 . Sat, 12/11/04 7 p.m. N vs Paseo W 95-54 . Thu, 12/16/04 6:15 p.m. L vs Career Academy (3-1, 13-4) W 71-53 . Sat, 12/18/04 noon N vs Charleston at Perryville W 71-51 Mon, 12/27/04 5 p.m. T vs Gateway Tech (4-1, 6-7) at Normandy W 84-44 . Tue, 12/28/04 5 p.m. T vs Hazelwood East (3-0, 11-6) at Normandy W 57-46 . Wed, 12/29/04 7 p.m. T vs Cardinal Ritter (3-0, 12-2) at Normandy W 59-27 . Mon, 1/10/05 6 p.m. T vs Raymore Peculiar at Smith-Cotton W 57-41 . Fri, 1/14/05 7:30 p.m. T vs Warrensburg at Smith-Cotton W 75-31 . Sat, 1/15/05 7 p.m. T vs Rock Bridge at Smith-Cotton W 59-49 Mon, 1/17/05 7:30 p.m. T vs East St. Louis (4-4, 10-9) at Savvis Center W 72-50 . Thu, 1/20/05 6:15 p.m. L vs Soldan (2-3, 8-9) W 84-51 . Sat, 1/22/05 6:15 p.m. L vs Beaumont (4-0, 13-4) at Gateway Tech 0-0 . Fri, 1/28/05 6:15 p.m. L vs V&P Arts (0-4, 2-7) 0-0 . Sat, 1/29/05 7:30 p.m. N at East St. Louis (4-4, 10-9) 0-0 . Fri, 2/4/05 6:15 p.m. L vs Cleveland (3-2, 6-10) 0-0 . Sat, 2/5/05 7 p.m. N vs Louisville Male 0-0 . Thu, 2/10/05 6:15 p.m. L vs Sumner (2-2, 4-15) 0-0 . Sat, 2/12/05 6 p.m. N vs Niagara of NYC at Trenton, NJ 0-0 . Sat, 2/19/05 6:30 p.m. N vs Chicago Male 0-0

Thanks...the following isn't SLU related but....looks like 3 area soccer players heading to final WC qualifying training, Ralston,(Oakville/FIU) Twellman,(SLUH, 2 years at MD) and Noonan(DeSmet/IU)...this list should include Brain McBride(SLU) when European based players are added. Chris Klein(DeSmet/IU) is injured. Would like to see Brad Davis get a look some time. Interested to see if Bruce Arena fianlly comes around to Taylor Twellman or not. U.S. Men's National Team Training Camp Roster Jan. 24-Feb. 7, 2005 - Carson, California Goalkeepers (4) - Jon Busch (Columbus Crew), Joe Cannon (Colorado Rapids), Kevin Hartman (Los Angeles Galaxy), Nick Rimando (D.C. United) Defenders (8) - Chris Albright (Los Angeles Galaxy), Jimmy Conrad (Kansas City Wizards), Nick Garcia (Kansas City Wizards), Frankie Hejduk (Columbus Crew), Ritchie Kotschau (Colorado Rapids), Chad Marshall (Columbus Crew), Eddie Pope (MetroStars), Tony Sanneh (Columbus Crew) Midfielders (9) - Clint Dempsey (New England Revolution), Diego Gutierrez (Kansas City Wizards), Justin Mapp (Chicago Fire), Pablo Mastroeni (Colorado Rapids), Clint Mathis (Real Salt Lake), Brian Mullan (San Jose Earthquakes), Ben Olsen (D.C. United), Steve Ralston (New England Revolution), Clyde Simms (Richmond Kickers) Forwards (7) - Brian Ching (San Jose Earthquakes), Alecko Eskandarian (D.C. United), Ed Johnson (FC Dallas), Mike Magee (MetroStars), Pat Noonan (New England Revolution), Taylor Twellman (New England Revolution), Josh Wolff (Kansas City Wizards)

Any positive publicity for STL area HS hoops is good.(At least it wasn't a story about Floyd taking his kids off of the floor somewhere) With that said, I can't take the mythical ranking seriously, especially USA Today. Teams are rewarded for record regardless of competition. Take a good look at their schedule. One would think in order to be highly nationally ranked, one would play highly nationally ranked competition. It isn't the case with this year's Vashon team. I only look at this year's team, obviously a good one, and this year's schedule. now, USA Today also looks at last year's record when the played small schools to help their ranking. There actually are several other HS rankings where Vashon isn't ranked at all, and others where they are ranked, but much lower. Vashon did have a nice showing at a pre-season summer/fall tourney at Chicago back to school jam, finishing second. But this was teams mixed with HS players and not. That could have helped them too. Unfortuantely their regular season schedule consists of a lot of weak area opponents, combined with some mediocre out of area opponents, with a few decent games sprinkled in.....Niagra NYC will be their ONLY test this season. I think they will be state favorites, as the area is down in general of strong teams this year. I am not all that impressed with Webster, Lafayette, etc...decent area teams not much more than that, ...and the usually solid Parkways or MCC schools are not having decent teams at all. I have actually seen it in other cities where a school dominates local competition gets zero losses or close to it, and has achieved a USA Today national ranking. A lot of other areas have more dpeth of elite teams that play each other often and makes the likelihood of a near perfect record not as good. Take STL area soccer for example...tough for any team to go unbeaten as national pre-season number one CBC found out both losing some games, but still having overall success. So, I think it is nice for the average Joe reading the paper because it mentions STL. Vashon has a strong team with a a very good coach. A lot of people dislike the long list of poor behavior exhibited by their coach and extending to the V nation, and city kids going there as opposed to other city schools, etc... I think it would be more interesting for some of those kids or other kids to go on to post high school success and beyond.

over .500 record, overall, and some wins agaisnt decent teams, Uc, or U of L etc....sure. Realistic, no, but mathematically possible, yes.

wow...jg99, I am guessing you are a young kid..why waste your time to post so poorly and uninformed?

Well...DePaul and Marquette didn't really have a lot of options. Can't blame them for goig to the Big East. Where would you have liked them to go? Can't be bitter to them because SLU wasn't in the mix. I am sure that announcer also had in his mind when making the comment that DePaul and Marquette have had decades of a rivalry in the past too. I think the U of L, UC, Memphis, or Metro schools if you will, added some fun to the mix. Obviously from a competitve standpoint, UC and U of L were always in the mix, and always had some drama too. Certainly more fun than an evening in Hattiesburg MS.

I would agree about second round pick. I actually have yet to see anyone who predicted first round for him. I would disagree about the not showing everyone about being a scorer...he is way up there in stats, had 32 vs Wisconsin, 15 I believe vs DePaul and AZ, and those were his worst showings. I will wait and see what he does vs UAB Charlotte, Cincy...etc...but as a point guard with the bullseye on his back, ...I would say his scoring is on par or perhaps more than I thought he would have this year. He can be a pass first point guard, as he was with Wade, etc...but this season has to score more for Marquette to compete. His assists per game is high, as is his scoring avg. As a team, Diener included Marquette has not protected the ball well in a few game skid of 2-2 ball. I'd be shocked if Diener if playing ealthy of course, didn't put on a few more shows in big games this season. I think he is that good. But for NBA, second round pick, will fight for roster spot and playing time. pro's, toughness, hustle, unselfish, shooting, ft shooting, getting to the line, court awareness, ......con's...feet quickness, perimeter defense, ...would like to see him use his left more... Right now, Marquette doesn't have anybody else on their team who can handle the ball, and fromwhat I have heard Diener is playing hurt too, not a good combination. Crean will have to make some adjustments...

I have been there. The current building is only a few years old, 17k. Frankly I am more impressed with their football atmosphere vs the Big Ten. I think they have the best student section in the Big Ten, hands down, and atmosphere for a game for football. Hoops has a good atmosphere too, Seen a couple of games there, different opponents. I believe they sell out most of their games if not all, not positive though. Their alums and town of Madison fans are perhaps rowdier than their students who have a solid section. Not that I care in the least, but in the very few games I have been to there, they sure did get a lot of calls and bounces their way. But that is part of the environment I suppose. U of I has gotten a much better atmosphere as well in Big Ten. Their team success hasn't hurt that obviously. I think they have just had some good teams as well in Madison in recent years...and the Big Ten has been down a bit as well. These two teams are head and shoulders better than anyone else in the Big Ten, including Mich St and Iowa who are solid.

Ahh road games in conference, Zags go down at USF too.

So far, Louisville is the ONLY C-USA team that I have seen win a good road conference game so far. It is my understanding from people that T Diener has been playing hurt for a while now. Marquette isn't playing good ball right now, and are really struggling to find ball handlers. Too many mistakes on the road. Sounds like Depaul and plenty of other Cusa teams...UAB, Charlotte, etc... If SLU plays well, there is no reason to think they can't beat Marquette at Savvis next weekend. But they need to play one of their better games. You have to hold serve at home and steal a couple on the road. As for barely winning a game etc...well it isn't horshoe's. And New England barely beat the Raiders a few years ago to play the Rams, and barely won the Super Bowl....I think you look at that two ways in hoops. If you have a young or struggling team, playing a team close can help you I suppose. But if you win a game barely you are supposed to win...it gets chalked up as another win. If Marquette doesn't hold serve at home,...like Sat vs Charlotte, then...they will have some issues for sure.

Thanks for the post...an interesting in depth article...but incomplete. The President's of those religious institutions don't get a check. If they were lay people, it would be a much different percentage. For example, they use Crean a lot in their article as an example...the salarys compared were Crean's and a VP, not a president, so how can it be compared to other lay presidents like Vandy's Gordon Gee's almost $900,000.(wow btw)? sure the VP makes 250 k, but a President would pull in more than 500k. Also why no asterisk reference at the other religious schools?

Obviously it all starts with students. Increasing regular student attendance in a dramatic way.

Actually no, that isn't what I said at all. What I said was..if you are going to Chicago you need to spend time in the city to distinguish its trip from something else, as opposed to just going to its suburbs and not seeing the city. You even said, you spent time in the city on your trip(s). You can have the chains if that is what you like, as mentioned. I enjoy Chicago, Milwaukee, and the other mentioned cities. Game and location atmospheres are two different things. Chicago is a pro sports town. The poor man's NBA arena is a rich man's college arena. Nothing wrong with Rosemont or the above mentioned places, or even the ones I mentioned. IMO Milwaukee and STL have a lot of simialrities. BTW try Gibson's or Chop House for those steaks in Chi town. Roy, if you go to NYC, go to "John's Pizzeria," either Village or Theater district location. Best pizza I've ever had.

Okay, I'll bite. IMO, Chicago is a lot more of a larger version of Milwaukee than say it is a big city like NYC. No question. Sure it offers more things than STL or Mil, but isn't too far removed from them either. I like Chicago a lot, have had many good times. So understand that up front. But what exactly is "happening" in the western burbs by Rosemont. Well, there is a Shoeless Joe's and Harry Caray's by the All-State Arena, and a lot of traffic moving toward Hoffman Estates there. That is the area I am discussing. But, you could even pick another area....if you wanted. Burbs are burbs...and other than some of the pretty but snotty North Shore burbs,(very cool neighborhoods, but you get the snotty part too) nothing distinct about the West, Northwest and South Chicago burbs. No bias here. I grew up in STL, but have spent a lot of time in other places too. I can gladly discuss its pro's and con's. But this is about Chicago, and the other cities mentioned. I would argue that Milwaukee is much more fun for going out/bar scene than Cincy area. Memphis obviously is a good weekend visit going out town. Ah Boston, the built in East Coast advantage of road trips due to proximity.

Freedom Hall for whiskey...;-)

Marquette would be good for a road trip to go to a game in that atmosphere as opposed to DePaul's lack of atmosphere. DePaul plays by the airport. When in Chicago, if you aren't in the city, why bother being there imo. Milwaukee has actually improved a lot in recent years, still a ways to go. I have find it very similar to STL in many ways. Weather there is similar to Chicago, FREAKIN cold. But nice summers. Memphis is fun, close to STL, like Nashville for a visit. Cincy is okay...I think what helps Milwaukee imo is that it is so close to Chicago. Those other cities STL included are pretty isolated from other major met areas, and if you get bored or need a change, of pace, you can take a quick spin to another city. ...It is one of the nice things about the East Coast, proximity. Been a while since I have been to UD.

Found this one interesting...Wake Forest and Marquette. http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellit...s=1037645509099

Dear Lord, NO more classes to Il high school hoops. Aren't they embarrassed enough at 8 football classes. I'm all for the little guy getting a chance to compete with little guys...though one big class and I wouldn't get too upset.... but give me a break small schools get one class, period. Like in MO, I really don't care size of school comparison of Burroughs vs Ritter, vs Country Day or Whitfield. The above should ALL be put in the small schools classification. One field. Any decent size high school should play in large schools. Two classes for ALL sports in MO and IL should be just fine. The system now is pathetic.

Former Billiken Brad Davis was traded from Dallas to San Jose for the 4th pick in the draft ...which included other players. Recent early SLU departures Tim Ward and Will John also were drafted. Ward 12th overall in first round by New York who traded up to get him. And Will John was drafted in 2nd round 18th overall by the Chicago Fire.

Roy attended SLU games with 5 people if I read the above thread correctly. The point is ...if you like something why didn't you do it. Came across as, hoops isn't big at UW so I didn't go. Fair enough explanation, wanted to make sure I had it correctly. Was surprised at the answer. Perhaps you should take another look SLU72 before making a foolish comment. I never said "rooted for," said followed. Two entirely different things. His post came across as he didn't follow it because no one else did. What does that have to do with yourself.

Vijay lives for practice. Nobody practices more in any sport. I would disagree. I know a LOT of people who hold that against him still. His great play has slowly won some people over. I would however agree that his personality is an acquired taste for many. Sadly I also never discount race in America, for some. Woods has helped that in golf. ...But Roy, I mentioned Thomas in reference to Rich saying basically that U of I didn't cheat...nothing to do with Missouri. Doesn't really matter, I just threw it out there, more to show a lot of schools even likeable ones have a lot in the closet. That was it. On a seperate note, I know that when I read something here, like the Mi$$ouri instead of Missouri, it usually is a turn off for me to even read the post. I just don't find it necessary, whether it is UC or whomever. I don't paint such a broad brush I suppose. Skip, yeah Vijay cheated a long time ago, got suspended a year on that tour. ...you could probably dig up some stuff on a vijay google search.