OT: Avis Meyer vs. SLU...again

[Majerus Magic]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stor...0D?OpenDocument

[NextYearBill]

The U News sucks anyway

[NashvilleBilliken]

This whole thing is ridiculous. I don't know Dr. Meyer from Dr. Dre, but this seems like a waste of time, money, and a good professor. This whole thing is supposedly due to the name "The University News"? This seems damn trivial and has obviously turned into a pissing match between Biondi and Meyer. Pretty pathetic. I take Biondi's side on a lot of things he is criticized about, but this makes him look like a two year old who didn't get his way.

[billiken_roy]

for all the great things that biondi has done at and for slu this takes it all away for me. Avis was the best teacher i ever had and without his guideance my slu degree would be worth a lot less to me imo.

avis doesnt have a greedy or alterior motive bone in his body and i have no doubt biondi is all wrong on this one.

depriving those students the advice and help of avis meyer should be a crime.

[brianstl]

for all the great things that biondi has done at and for slu this takes it all away for me. Avis was the best teacher i ever had and without his guideance my slu degree would be worth a lot less to me imo.

avis doesnt have a greedy or alterior motive bone in his body and i have no doubt biondi is all wrong on this one.

depriving those students the advice and help of avis meyer should be a crime.

Meyer shouldn't have tried to steal the name of the school newspaper. This situation, imo, is becoming an example of one person thinking he is more important than the univesity as a whole. This is a time I think Biondi is completely in the right.

[billiken_roy]

Meyer shouldn't have tried to steal the name of the school newspaper. This situation, imo, is becoming an example of one person thinking he is more important than the univesity as a whole. This is a time I think Biondi is completely in the right.

brian which came first? avis copywriting the name or biondi booting avis from his best and most effective educational advisor position? i think avis did what he did to try to stay involved in what he loves to do. helping journalism students create a newspaper. he was likely advised he needed some leaverage, and he wisely grabbed what he could. i would be shocked to hear from avis that he did it to extort money. if you find a quote from avis to that effect, let me know.

[billikendave]

Meyer shouldn't have tried to steal the name of the school newspaper. This situation, imo, is becoming an example of one person thinking he is more important than the univesity as a whole. This is a time I think Biondi is completely in the right.

he withdrew that over a year ago and then SLU filed suit even after he withdrew it.

[brianstl]

brian which came first? avis copywriting the name or biondi booting avis from his best and most effective educational advisor position? i think avis did what he did to try to stay involved in what he loves to do. helping journalism students create a newspaper. he was likely advised he needed some leaverage, and he wisely grabbed what he could. i would be shocked to hear from avis that he did it to extort money. if you find a quote from avis to that effect, let me know.

It was some pretty crappy advice. It is going to cost him a ton of money.

This shouldn't be about Avis and him staying involved in what he loves to do. This should be about what is best for SLU. The more I read about the story it seems to me that Avis is more worried about what is best for him. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't exactly make him a martyr for a cause.

[brianstl]

he withdrew that over a year ago and then SLU filed suit even after he withdrew it.

They can't allow someone to set a precedent for that kind of activity. SLU still has a vested intrest in seeing the suit through even with Meyer's withdrawl.

[billiken_roy]

brian, you have never met avis have you?

[brianstl]

brian, you have never met avis have you?

No I haven't. Which probably makes me much more objective about this case than you. I shouldn't need to remind you that I have blasted Biondi in the past on this board.

[billiken_roy]

No I haven't. Which probably makes me much more objective about this case than you. I shouldn't need to remind you that I have blasted Biondi in the past on this board.

that is a good point. i will step back on this one and plead conflict of interest. thanks.

[brianstl]

that is a good point. i will step back on this one and plead conflict of interest. thanks.

I will say this, Biondi would be extremely petty if he tried to collect any judgement SLU might recieve in their case against Meyer.

[Taj79]

I thnk we are looking at the "golden rule" here .... he who owns the gold, rules. In other words, if the University is applying some sort of finanacial assistance to the paper, then I would argue that the "paper" is not independent and will find itself under some sort of influence or control If the paper flies by the seat of its own pants, in other words it has an advertising sales staff and those sales pay for total production costs, then it is independent and should be able to do whatever it wants to do. When i wrote for the UNews, and Avis was my adviser, financial input came from the University. Being in the sports venue, I had little, if any, reason to write about the University or its policies. About the biggest controversy we had was the elimination of the hockey team from the Divison 1 rolls.

We were called the "ULose" so many times when I was there, it does not matter. It is a learning ground for honing one's craft. I think it would behoove the administration to let a few pot shots go and take the heat --- it would only improve the administration's credibility in my book. But that's me. Everybody has pet names for all sorts of businesses so "ULose" doesn't matter. I remember Agony Airlines (Alleghany Air), Useless Air (U.S. Air), Krazo Airlines (Ozark spelled backwards) and today I work for a group whose acronym is CMA which we all call "Cover My Ass." I wouldn't trade my allegiance to the University News in for anything. Biondi is saying all the right things. I give him a neutral vote at this point and understand covering the Unversity's namesake in the legal end. My question would be does "The University News" have meaning explicitly to SLU? I mean, I've heard of things like "University Liquors," and "The University Apartments," and "University Cleaners." Not all associated with SLU but you get the meaning. Can Washington University sue over the name "University City?"

I always found Dr. Meyer to be a stand-up guy as far as convictions are concerned. If he believed that the school was doing this to censor the students, I can see him doing exactly what is described in this article. I don't know that I would have advised going through with it but I believe he had enough sense to know that the copyright issue was wide open and doable. Still, somebody on the ship declared mutiny. What's the captain going to do? Sounds like a great case of "he said, she said" and this can't be won in the court of public opinion.

All things are open to compromise. I can't see Biondi dropping the ball on this one. Too much precedent-setting. Compromise might be, we'll drop the legal fees if you stay out of the newsroom. I don't like it as far as the good Doctor is concerned because I like him as much as memory serves, but the other route means continuing the fight --- which means, at a minimum, added legal fees. And added bad press. Who needs that?

RockAvisHardPlace.

[Pistol]

No I haven't. Which probably makes me much more objective about this case than you. I shouldn't need to remind you that I have blasted Biondi in the past on this board.

Biondi's overbearing censorship came before Meyer's suit. He had to do something to try to keep free speech alive at SLU. The universities and student papers that do the best are the ones with complete freedom of the press.

The U News sucks with the staff tiptoeing around challenging issues. Biondi says publicly that he wants SLU to be the top Jesuit school in the country. To do that, the school is going to have to improve in a lot of areas, and censoring students and faculty is not a good start. Another recent example of this is his banning of The ****** Monologues on campus in each of the past few years with weak reasons. These things don't happen at Georgetown.

Father Biondi: SLU student organizations

as

Vladimir Putin: Russian media

[brianstl]

Biondi's overbearing censorship came before Meyer's suit. He had to do something to keep free press alive at SLU. The universities and student papers that do the best are the ones with complete freedom of the press.

The U News sucks with the staff tiptoeing around challenging issues. Biondi says publicly that he wants SLU to be the top Jesuit school in the country. To do that, the school is going to have to improve in a lot of areas, and censoring students and faculty is not a good start. Another recent example of this is his banning of The ****** Monologues on campus in each of the past few years with weak reasons. These things don't happen at Georgetown.

Father Biondi: SLU student organizations

as

Vladimir Putin: Russian media

I must have missed all the dead bodies surrounding Biondi.

Biondi runs a private institution and that institution has the right to censor the school newspaper if it sees fit to do so. It might not be the smart thing to do, but it isn't Meyer's place or job to try steal the newspaper's name because he doesn't like what his bosses tell him.

[NashvilleBilliken]

I must have missed all the dead bodies surrounding Biondi.

Biondi runs a private institution and that institution has the right to censor the school newspaper if it sees fit to do so. It might not be the smart thing to do, but it isn't Meyer's place or job to try steal the newspaper's name because he doesn't like what his bosses tell him.

Is that all this law suit is about? If so, then I still think this is stupid and Biondi is wasting our money and running off a top notch professor. I just googled university news. SLU is not the only place that has a publication called University News. Was University News trademarked prior to this lawsuit? This whole thing seems very stupid. As far as I know this does not include past articles, any research, or any profits made by the University News...just a name. I'm failing to see where the "Intellectual Property" is being jeopardized. Why doesn't Biondi sue the University of Dallas.

It's one thing to protect the University's assets and interests. It's another to be petty and vindictive. This seems to be the latter.

[billikendave]

They can't allow someone to set a precedent for that kind of activity. SLU still has a vested intrest in seeing the suit through even with Meyer's withdrawl.

That is what "cease and desist letters" are for. It happens everyday in patent, trademark, trade secret cases. SLU sent one and Meyer withdrew.

What is the purpose of a lawsuit? To remedy a wrong and not to set precedents.... at least so sayeth countless professors from SLU Law. In this case, the wrong has been remedied. The PR hit is tremendous.

FWIW, I have never heard on Avis Meyer before this whole process. I got curious and read the lawsuit and court docs. If this isn't retaliatory, i don't know what is.

[billikendave]

Is that all this law suit is about? If so, then I still think this is stupid and Biondi is wasting our money and running off a top notch professor. I just googled university news. SLU is not the only place that has a publication called University News. Was University News trademarked prior to this lawsuit? This whole thing seems very stupid. As far as I know this does not include past articles, any research, or any profits made by the University News...just a name. I'm failing to see where the "Intellectual Property" is being jeopardized. Why doesn't Biondi sue the University of Dallas.

It's one thing to protect the University's assets and interests. It's another to be petty and vindictive. This seems to be the latter.

no it was not trademarked, service marked or otherwise. SLU claims Meyer was creating the illusion that he was treading on SLU's good name and reputation for his own personal gain.

[billikendave]

I must have missed all the dead bodies surrounding Biondi.

Then you must not be looking very closely. He has truly transformed SLU. He doubled the size of the campus and it hardly is reminiscent of the commuter school from the 80s. Don't kid yourself into thinking that there aren't as many "dead bodies" as fountains on campus. Many think he sold SLU's Catholic soul when he chose Tenat over SSM for the hospital and for TIF money for the new arena.

[brianstl]

Then you must not be looking very closely. He has truly transformed SLU. He doubled the size of the campus and it hardly is reminiscent of the commuter school from the 80s. Don't kid yourself into thinking that there aren't as many "dead bodies" as fountains on campus. Many think he sold SLU's Catholic soul when he chose Tenat over SSM for the hospital and for TIF money for the new arena.

He may be tough and ruthless in business, but that is not the same as killing political opponents. You may not like the guy, but he doesn't approach the level of a Putin. If students don't like what is being done at the paper they are free to start their own without the backing of the school. Too many people seem more than willing to always try to morally equate something they don't like to something that is really horrifying. It is pretty intellectually lazy.

Biondi always takes the shots in these situations and that is his job. This is one case that Biondi is not the boogeyman. One of the schools employees tried to openly defy him and steal the paper's name at the same time. By the way it wasn't just The University News he tried to steal, but also the use of SLU for a paper.

Meyer said he formed the nonprofit corporation using the name of The University News and SLU in case students wanted to take the newspaper off campus.

[Pistol]

He may be tough and ruthless in business, but that is not the same as killing political opponents. You may not like the guy, but he doesn't approach the level of a Putin. If students don't like what is being done at the paper they are free to start their own without the backing of the school. Too many people seem more than willing to always try to morally equate something they don't like to something that is really horrifying. It is pretty intellectually lazy.

Biondi always takes the shots in these situations and that is his job. This is one case that Biondi is not the boogeyman. One of the schools employees tried to openly defy him and steal the paper's name at the same time. By the way it wasn't just The University News he tried to steal, but also the use of SLU for a paper.

Intellectually lazy? I thought the Putin comparison was pretty accurate. Just as Putin claims Russia has a free press when his opponents in the press have turned up dead, Biondi claims his strong-arm tactics with the U News were to correct "grammatical errors." Riiiiight, Father. Biondi hasn't killed anyone, but the core of my analogy holds true: both leaders have lied to the people while silencing their voices. Please don't characterize a slight flair for the dramatic as intellectual laziness.

You also missed my other main point when you said that Biondi is in charge of a private institution and may censor the newspaper as he sees fit. While that on a fundamental level is true, you are first agreeing with me that he is censoring the student paper of his university and then validating his actions. The point is that Father Biondi is censoring the student newspaper. I would hope that this bothers people enough to do something.

Avis Meyer saw this for what it was: a leader exercising his power in the worst kind of way. Instead of putting his head down and taking it, he decided to use the legal system to take the newspaper back for the students. It isn't an ego grab on his part, just a response to Biondi's ego grab. I think it's an impressive move. The students need an ally to rally around against the president who took their paper, and Meyer is sticking his neck out for them.

I don't know if I would have even thought to challenge it legally in that way, but what I would have done is to rally the concerned members of the staff and other students to produce an independent paper to challenge and hopefully overtake a bland, amateurish, heavily-censored student newspaper.

[billikendave]

He may be tough and ruthless in business, but that is not the same as killing political opponents. You may not like the guy, but he doesn't approach the level of a Putin. If students don't like what is being done at the paper they are free to start their own without the backing of the school. Too many people seem more than willing to always try to morally equate something they don't like to something that is really horrifying. It is pretty intellectually lazy.

Biondi always takes the shots in these situations and that is his job. This is one case that Biondi is not the boogeyman. One of the schools employees tried to openly defy him and steal the paper's name at the same time. By the way it wasn't just The University News he tried to steal, but also the use of SLU for a paper.

You are correct. Biondi hasn't murdered people. Metaphors and similies are "intellectually lazy" literary devices.

Meyer registered for a nonprofit corporation entitled "The University News, a student voice servicing Saint Louis University since 1921." He dissolved it 3-4 months after creating it after getting a "cease and desist" letter. The problem was remedied. The rest at this point is ego. He can't do it directly because Meyer is tenured. The lawsuit is not about the U News. Its about putting opponents of Biondi on notice that he will use the power of SLU to destroy you if you take him on.

I would say that he is leaving the head of a traitor by the clock tower to keep faculty in line but I guess that is intellectually lazy.....

[brianstl]

Intellectually lazy? I thought the Putin comparison was pretty accurate. Just as Putin claims Russia has a free press when his opponents in the press have turned up dead, Biondi claims his strong-arm tactics with the U News were to correct "grammatical errors." Riiiiight, Father. Biondi hasn't killed anyone, but the core of my analogy holds true: both leaders have lied to the people while silencing their voices. Please don't characterize a slight flair for the dramatic as intellectual laziness.

It is intellectually lazy. The paper belongs to the Jesuits and it is their right to control (through Biondi) the content as they see fit. Just as the Post is the property of Lee Enterprises and they control the content of their paper. Biondi would have to be trying to shut down the Post for your comparison to be close to being correct. Biondi is not using his power shut down all voices of dissent in the public square or even all dissent at the school newspaper.

Avis Meyer saw this for what it was: a leader exercising his power in the worst kind of way. Instead of putting his head down and taking it, he decided to use the legal system to take the newspaper back for the students. It isn't an ego grab on his part, just a response to Biondi's ego grab. I think it's an impressive move. The students need an ally to rally around against the president who took their paper, and Meyer is sticking his neck out for them.

That wasn't Avis's call to make. His is an employee of the university. He openly defied his boss, tried to steal the paper's name and steal the use of the initials SLU. He is lucky to still have a job, imo.

[bonwich]

It is intellectually lazy. The paper belongs to the Jesuits and it is their right to control (through Biondi) the content as they see fit.

Now who's being "intellectually lazy"? (Or perhaps you missed that binding legal ruling about Saint Louis University not being controlled by a "religious creed.")