Polk at Harris Stowe open run yesterday

[slu72]

The whole key with Polk is can he shoot? He's got handles, quickness, and can harass on D. I do agree w/ Roy I'd rather beat the press with the pass than dribbling thru it, but it's still good to have a guy who won't turn it over when it's in his hands. I don't think DB or LM match Polk's ball handling skills. All that said, it still boils down to his shot making ability. If all that speed only gets him a chance at a layup, he doesn't pose much of a threat, ie they'll lay off and take that away. Let him stop pop and hit a couple of 3's in a row, then they can't do that. So when they come out he blows by them for an assist or a basket. The offense needs to run thru TL, Polk would be the off guard in there solely for transition. I too am mystified how a kid can score 40 in the Bonner league and single handedly shoot his team to a state title in the second half, but can't hit the lake from the dock in Billiken Blue.

[brianstl]

72, you hit it on the head. All this is worthless discussion if Polk can't shoot again this year.

[FromGreeceWithLove]

I think there is more to it than whether or not Polk can actually draw iron this year. Polk is a pure pg, he is 5'9 and 160 pounds when soaking wet. Danny Brown is 6'4 and Luke Meyer is 6'5 and both of these guys are strong kids. I would ask you, how many teams start a 5'9 off-guard. I realize his speed can become a mathcup problem, but I have not seen enough from him to feel like what he brings offsets what he lacks. His lack of a shot and size seem to outway what he brings on the court. As far as off the bench and providing a spark, I think that is role he can really shine in. Polk got after it defensively in the Xavier game, but I question if that is realistic to expect out of him for more than spot minutes.

[VTIME]

>I think Polk could start along with Tommie and Kevin at the

>guard positions, but it is not what I would personally like

>to see. I think Polk is a quality player who is most useful

>coming off the bench to provide a spark. He has not shown

>the ability to provide that spark for an extended period of

>time. I think we all agree that Tommie is best utilized

>when he runs the point and runs the show. This leaves Polk

>playing as an off-guard on offense and I think his inability

>to hit outside shots would allow teams to help off of him.

>I picture the defense many teams played against Pulley

>during his brief time at Mizzou, where they basically dared

>him to shoot it. Polk is fast as lightning, but hasn't

>shown that he can really use it productively. When he was

>playing the point he would sprint down the court as fast as

>he could and repeatedly pull back never really showing the

>ability to make a play or make things happen. I personally

>like him best coming off the bench to run a little and hound

>the other teams point guard for about 15 minutes a game. I

>think Danny Brown and Luke Meyer provide better options,

>with Danny having the most potential to provide a real

>impact at that position. I think Danny provides all of the

>things Polk could with better shooting ability and size.

>Luke gives a quality player who is going to get after it on

>both ends of the court and a guy who can hit open shots,

>although he has not proven that as of yet. I love having

>three quality juniors with experience competing for that

>spot.

I cant agree with you on the part about never really showing the ability to make a play or make things happen. Are you sure it wasnt designed for Polk to pull the back out? He never even tried to do anything with it. He never just did something crazy or erratic. He played under control and that's what I see them do in practice too. He pulls it back out. I never said Fox was killing Polk, he killed Polk's team. Fox and Mack Caldwell were the only rotation player for Harris-Stowe on the floor. Polk hits those shots in SLU's practices too. I dont know what happens to him in the games. I think if he could just catch the ball in rhythm he would shoot the ball better instead of catching with the shot clock running down and taking a shot he's not ready to take. Although he should be ready at all times. I really cant explain it. He kills the competition everywhere he goes. I'm wondering what's wrong with Luke too. He was a near 30ppg scorer in high school facing double teams every game. He could shoot, he was crafty and he played physical going to the basket.

[cheeseman]

I do agree that Polk is a better passer than Luke. Luke has not shown anything closely related to great ball handling skills. He is at best a stand and set shooter who has yet to even show he can hit his shot consistently. When Luke is out there - I dream of having Drew D. back - ouch that hurt but it is the truth. As far as breaking the press passing or dribbling - lets be honest the past two years has not shown that this team can break the press by passing - they seem to go brain dead when the press is put on. The only real success we have shown in breaking the press has been to give the ball to Polk and let him dribble it past everybody - not perfect but it works. As far as Polk's playing time - it is all up to him and his shot. Nobody to blame but himself if he gets limited pt. I am not at all sold on Luke as a 3 but I will withhold judgement until I see him this year.

[FromGreeceWithLove]

Luke is a guy who I wonder about as well. Everytime I have seen him in practice or playing pick-up, he has impressed me with his game. He shows the ability to score and that he is an underrated athlete as well, I saw him making some pretty impressive dunks one time in the rec center. I agree V, here is a kid who could score at will at Borgia and at SLU he has not shown the ability to consistently make open looks. I am a big fan of Luke and I expect a lot of good things from him in his final two seasons, but I think questions are waranted as they are with Polk.

[slu72]

Meyer, as I understand, scored most of his 30 ppg from the 10-15 ft range. In HS he was shooting this over smaller and slower kids. He ain't in Kansan anymore, Toto, those shots now have to be made against 6-7 pf's. As conservative as UB is, if either DP or DB doesn't separate significantly from LM in October practices, I can see him going with LM for the following reasons: system knowledge, hustles every minute, not going to make bonehead plays ala DB. LM is a steadying influence whereas DB, while providing more flash, still tends to be a loose cannon. Unless DB got religion over the summer, DP would be the best fit for the 3rd guard spot, but the man's got to find his shot...without it, he brings little to the party. Who knows though maybe Dustin McGuire steps up and shows he can hit those 3's against D1 competition.

[Quality Is Job 1]

FGWL wrote, "I tend to believe that having a successful transition game is more about securing defensive rebounds and making good outlet passes and then having guys who can push the pace than it is about forcing turnovers."

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. I've watched and followed basketball for years, and the trend has always been that, by far, the majority of a team's fast-break points come off of turnovers, rather than missed shots. And of the fast-break points off of missed shots, more of them are the result of three-point shots (which result in longer rebounds) than shots closer in (which tend to have more hotly-contested rebounds). A good blocked shot is also an effective way of starting a fast-break. Few teams can fast-break off of missed shots consistently -- most teams are schooled to get back. I know there are a few exceptions -- heck, some teams can fast-break off of made shots -- but the rule is that fast-break/transistion points come off of turnovers.

[FromGreeceWithLove]

Turnovers lead to easy baskets and the majority of a teams transition points will come way of turnovers. In my opinion the transition game is more than layups from steals though. When I hear Brad talk about the tranisition game this is what I foresee. I just don't see Brad allowing the defensive freedom where we are going to get a ton of turnovers that lead to fast breaks. I see us being successful in the transition game by allowing our guards to leak out a little bit and having Ian and whoever the pf is secure the rebound and throw them an outlet pass. The Suns have been successful in the transition game by doing it this way. You reference the majority of the fast-break points coming off shots from distance, that is what the pack defense is designed to force teams to do. The pack defense is designed to keep teams from getting in the lane and getting easy looks and thus forcing teams to make outside shots or contested shots. With good rebounders this is how we will find success in the transition game. I think Kevin will get his share of layups from steals and Tommie and Danny have shown the ability to shoot the gap, but I don't see us getting too many easy layups or dunks from straight steals or turnovers. This is what I invision when I hear Brad talk about the tranistion game and pushing the pace.

[cheeseman]

For some reason people think that Luke is a good outside shot - he has not shown any of that on a consistent basis at SLU. If Luke can not hit his shot then how is he better than Polk. He is slower, has less ball handling skills, and he is not a better passer. I see Polk and Luke in the same tough spot - neither will see pt if their shot does not fall. All the good Polk brings with his speed and ball handling is lost if he shoots poorly. All the hustle - I hate that because when you say Luke is a hustler it sounds like Polk and others are not and that is not true nobody puts out harder than Polk from what I have seen - and steady play is lost if Luke can not hit his shot. Like I said before, both are in the same pickle. Danny, who knows but he has the most upside - Brad gave him his chance last year but he fumbled it hopefully he will not this time around.

[VTIME]

>For some reason people think that Luke is a good outside

>shot - he has not shown any of that on a consistent basis at

>SLU. If Luke can not hit his shot then how is he better

>than Polk. He is slower, has less ball handling skills, and

>he is not a better passer. I see Polk and Luke in the same

>tough spot - neither will see pt if their shot does not

>fall. All the good Polk brings with his speed and ball

>handling is lost if he shoots poorly. All the hustle - I

>hate that because when you say Luke is a hustler it sounds

>like Polk and others are not and that is not true nobody

>puts out harder than Polk from what I have seen - and steady

>play is lost if Luke can not hit his shot. Like I said

>before, both are in the same pickle. Danny, who knows but

>he has the most upside - Brad gave him his chance last year

>but he fumbled it hopefully he will not this time around.

If Dustin struggles in the same way, missing OPEN 3 point shots, will you say he cant shoot, or will you attribute it to some other circumstance.

[thebillikensfriend]

ok HS open gym is a joke 1st of all because I've been there and seen the competition. 2nd, the 6'3" kid thats phil hunts cousin is slow as can be and will never get that jump shot off in a D1 game, yes is goes in but to slow for my taste. And finally, Polk is a good player that is scared to play like he did at the V, brad didn't do anything but encourage him to play like he always has but polk has to realize that he's no scorer at this level but when the opportunity presents itself he must be able to knock down open 3's... polk doesn't not have to be an offensive threat for the us, if he has 3 steals with 4 or 5 points and 8,9,10 assists then thats what we want not him shooting contested 3's or driving in the paint and just throwing up lay-ups.

[FromGreeceWithLove]

It is kind of hard to compare a 5'9 pg and a 6'5 guard/small forward. If Polk was not faster than Luke and could not handle the ball better than Luke he would not be playing D-1 basketball. Thats like saying Phil Hunt was faster and handles the ball better than Chris Sloan, why did Sloan play ahead of him. They bring very different things to the table and it is really hard to compare the two of them directly. Polk is going to give you speed and quickness where Luke is going to fight for rebounds and loose balls and in my opinion make open looks. Luke is a solid player and until one of the others proves they can be a consistent performer, I would have to go with Luke as the other starter going into the season.

[brianstl]

I agree with almost everything you said, TBF. But, I would like to see some driving in the lane from DP, when he gets the chance. This would create chances for kick outs to Kevin and Tommie, if they don't collapse on him he will have an easy lay-up.

[VTIME]

>ok HS open gym is a joke 1st of all because I've been there

>and seen the competition. 2nd, the 6'3" kid thats phil

>hunts cousin is slow as can be and will never get that jump

>shot off in a D1 game, yes is goes in but to slow for my

>taste. And finally, Polk is a good player that is scared to

>play like he did at the V, brad didn't do anything but

>encourage him to play like he always has but polk has to

>realize that he's no scorer at this level but when the

>opportunity presents itself he must be able to knock down

>open 3's... polk doesn't not have to be an offensive threat

>for the us, if he has 3 steals with 4 or 5 points and 8,9,10

>assists then thats what we want not him shooting contested

>3's or driving in the paint and just throwing up lay-ups.

The only part I agree with is the part about Polk being scared to play the way he did in high school. Harris-Stowe open gym is far from a joke. Last year we had Terry Evans, Dan Oppland, Mike Sutherland and many other former division 1 guys multiple times. Nick Kern also makes appearances, as well as a ton of other talented players. I doubt you have been over there, unless you're a student, because they're arent really any outsiders that come over much unless they played ball somewhere, but its possible. Did you play, because if you played while I was there you probably got embarrassed. We dont have too many white guys in the gym, so you must be a black guy. Who are you? Probably a nobody, who cant hoop, so he downs other hoopers.

[The Majority]

Vtime, come up to MOBAPS open gym, Johnny Parker, Marcus Allen, Justin Tatum, JOn Oden are up there all the time with other Mobap players even some local like Randy Holbrook(Kirkwood) That open gym is probably the best around, so come up next summer b/c that is the spot to be, the Oppland twins showed up one day, but only lasted one game, they got embarrassed, Tate DecKer even shows up once in awhile.

[slufanskip]

That is a good idea ... but don't you think Brad would be pissed if he found out someone was trying to correct what he did to Polk's shot.

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[slufanskip]

imo ... best passers on the team.

TL

DP

KL

I won't include Ian ... because it is a different type of passing, hard to compare with a guard and isn't relevent for this discussion.

As Dwayne's quickness can be an asset in beating a press with the dribble it can also be a hinderence when he does get trapped and of course once in a while he will. I would prefer to see Tommie at the point he is a good dribbler and has the height and vision to pass through it as neccessary.

imo ... unless Danny or Luke loses the 3 spot ... Dwayne is coming off the bench ... even if he does improve his shot. How much time he gets will depend on how much he improves.

V ... why is it neccessary to say stupid stuff like UB ruined DP's shot and Norm ruined Johnny Parkers.

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[VTIME]

>Vtime, come up to MOBAPS open gym, Johnny Parker, Marcus

>Allen, Justin Tatum, JOn Oden are up there all the time with

>other Mobap players even some local like Randy

>Holbrook(Kirkwood) That open gym is probably the best

>around, so come up next summer b/c that is the spot to be,

>the Oppland twins showed up one day, but only lasted one

>game, they got embarrassed, Tate DecKer even shows up once

>in awhile.

Come to Harris-Stowe during Spring Break. WOW! There are 2 open runs at Harris-Stowe right now. The streetball type with students from 12-2:30 and the team oriented from 6:00-whenever coach decides to stop it. Also, they 86'd the Tennis team, so I'll get to just concentrate on grades.