Hardball Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 The reason Romar was not successful recruiting at SLU was because he was trying to get the West Coast Blue Chip players to come 2000+ miles to play for a not very successful college basketball team. BS tried the same thing his first couple of years before he understood the value of recruiting regionally. Romar finally understood the importance of the regional athelete (Grimes) and then he took the Washington job. Had Romar concetrated on the regional recruit here like he is doing in Washington he would have been extremely successful. It would be hard to claim based on the current results that BS is a better recruiter than Romar but if anyone could try and say it you would be the one. As for as our coach "steadily improving the talent base by upping the talent gradually" he has failed this year. Unless you think our recruits this year of MQ and AK are better than last years recruits TL and KL. BS was a recruiter for a Big 10 University for many years yet he has never delivered any player of note outside of KL and TL who by the way are from St. Louis. Where is his contacts that he developed at Wisconsin? When will they start delivering players to SLU? Yes you could talk about RB but he was a transfer as was the Federicks from UAB. Coaches like Munson and Few do not miss a beat when one leaves. Xavier has gone from Gillen to Prosser to Matta and now Miller and still are getting better players than SLU. And you say it can't be done in a timely manner...nonsense. It can happen and it is what we should all expect. Roy, if consistency is what you want how about starting with your own thought process. If the Blue Chip Recruit Plan was a good thought process 5-6 years ago it should be now as well. That theory should not change based upon who the SLU coach is at the time. Set your standards and expect your coach to fulfill them. Every successful program does this and SLU supporters should be doing the same. SLU just needs a staff/Coach to execute it. Ultimately Roy, the major difference between the _ _ _ and you are you want consistency regardless of results and the _ _ _ want winning basketball (NCAA TOURNAMENT). Neither are wrong it is just how you want to spend you time getting to your final destination. If consistency is what you want let's give BS a ten year contract. Now that would be consistancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 i'm all for the 10 year contract. my consistency lies with putting my trust in the coach. i trusted romar to win his way, and i trust soderberg to win his way. my greatest fear is constant change. unless someone is in charge that is cheating or incompetent, i want to give the man in charge the time in their own way to make the program work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 FRERICKS was a juco transfer who did play a year for UAB. Also it's Monson not Munson. In any case we can speculate on Romar's possible recruiting success here till the cows come home. The fact is We got Varner Not Darius Miles. The fact is we got Edwin, McClain, Pulley, and, Nick Kern. Brad isn't perfect by any stretch but Romar wasn't any better here. At least AD and JJ graduated and didn't do the Pulley shuffle..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardball Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Are you saying the coach sets your standards for SLU? Roy, just so I am clear about your position. Knowing that no coach can gauntee a successful program your claim is if BS came to you as the SLU AD and said "I can put together a winning program at SLU but it will take ten years to do it".... you would hire BS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Speculation is the bread and butter of message boards, but that is all we are doing in regards to Romar. Woulda, shoulda, coulda. The fact is that Romar gave us nothing in regards to recruiting. I loved Reggie, Tom, Izik, Chris, etc. They helped the program and I'm proud they represented SLU. But the fact is that, so far, Brad's recruiting has far surpassed LoRo's. Maybe I'm forgetting something. But if you compare Lo Ro's top recruites vs. Brad's top recruits, Brad wins HANDS DOWN. Sombody prove me wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Out of those four names, Chris was the only one recruited by Romar. Brad got Tom from his Chipola connection (their coach used to play for him years ago), Reggie was his Villanova transfer (though the recruiting nod there goes to Gary Buchanan, who introduced Reggie to SLU), and Izik was Brad's first overseas recruit. Maybe I misunderstood your point, but those were Brad's guys, except Chris Sloan, who signed with Romar and played two years for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Wow...ok, my bad. My timeline is all messed up..can't believe I've been out of school that long. Anyway, my point still stands. I'd like to know LoRo's recruits at SLU that puts him above Brad on the recruiting circuit. And you can't say look at Washington. Vastly different programs on all accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardball Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Rich, Romar had his mistakes but so has BS but Romar was good at Peperdine before we hired him at SLU. I am not saying Romar was the greatest but are you saying you feel more comfortable with BS handling our recruiting than Romar? Remember Romar had a committment from the Hollins kid that went to UCLA and he would have locked up Grimes had he stayed. My educated guess, based on his successful regional recruiting at Washington, was he would have delivered TL and KL as well. Look what he is doing at Washington. Do you feel comfortable saying BS could do as good of a job as Romar has done at Washington had he been hired as head coach? How would you explain Romar's recent success? I am not saying BS can't do it at SLU but rather four years is a long enough time to make an educated guess whether he can do it. Some major changes need to take place in the way this staff recruits. Hopefully Walker will be a start of a new beginning. Only time will tell. And apparentantly we have all the time in the world to wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostatic Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 I believe BS had Devin Harris locked up for Wisconsin before he was let go. He is turning into a pretty nice player. In the next few years, BS could have 3 of his recruits playing in the NBA (Harris, IV, TL). Will that count for anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardball Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Yes it would matter. But my next question would be if he had the talent why did he maintain only a .500 record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Hollins alone wouldn't make that big a difference. Grimes has been less than stellar for Missouri and it is again speculation to say Romar would've got him. Again Kevin and Tommie is sheer speculation. Romar vs Brad at Washington is WILD speculation. I'd have to take romar over Brad giving Romar's west coast connections, even with the Cameron Dollar debacle. Here, Brad wins easily based on history, not wild speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 you are summarizing very short. i.e. i would expect him to outline why it would take that long and what that meant on the path there and thereafter. if that plan made sense with a real pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, the answer is yes. it took gonzaga that long. if the end result from such a hire is gonzaga, then what is wrong with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Frericks was not a transfer from UAB Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman and loyal subject of Billsboy and all ex D1 players and coaches everywhere. You da man Billsboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Romar did have a nice class of Nick Kern, Ryan Hollins, and Taj Gray right before he left, and that's when we scrambled to put together a class of Izik, Reggie, Drejaj, and JJ. Not a bad class considering the time frame in which Brad had to do it, but Drejaj was really the only one to live up to (and exceed) his potential. Izik was too inconsistent (also recruited by Miami and others, ESPN said we could have a sleeper with him), Reggie was great on offense when healthy, but never healthy, and JJ seems to be the only real wasted scholarship in this class. Romar was a great recruiter, but came in second on so many guys while at SLU. With a couple more years, I think we would have seen his recruiting potential played out more, but at SLU, you need more time to build than at Washington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Pistol, Taj never committed to SLU and Kern wasn't going to get in. We can all say Taj was coming ... but that bet was no more sure than LS was coming. If Taj had committed ... then he was coming ... he didn't commit, he wasn't coming That class was Hollins ... who wasn't much until the tourney this year. Check his stats ... If Bryce has those stats everyone will be dogging him Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman and loyal subject of Billsboy and all ex D1 players and coaches everywhere. You da man Billsboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardball Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Your right alot of this discussion is speculation. But speculation based on some kind of rational or use of trends. Rather than go back and forth and discuss who had better recruits I will say for the sake of speeding up the converstaion you are right. So here is my question.... If we have have better recruits under BS how come we had more success under Romar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Kern wouldn't have qulified, true. Gray hadn't officially committed to SLU yet, but had given his word to the program before Romar went to Washington. As soon as that happened, Gray backed off before anything was signed. It wasn't a Stemler-type situation where there were still visits to be made. The timing was just bad with the Washington job opening. Hollins was a nice role player at UCLA. His stats at SLU probably would have been better than they were there, maybe not a whole lot, but at least a little. He would have gotten more minutes and played an easier schedule. It's just speculation, but SLU isn't UCLA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardball Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I knew he was a JC transfer but I did not know the JC name so I just referenced his first school of choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Ig Taj was a done deal he would have committed, he didn't therefore it wasn't a done deal. For all you know he had told OU he was going there also. Until he makes a formal commitment it means nothing. You can't count a guy in a recruiting class that hadn't even committed. Yes Hollins numbers would have probably been better here than at UCLA. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman and loyal subject of Billsboy and all ex D1 players and coaches everywhere. You da man Billsboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Fair enough. But I never said it was a done deal, either. Plus, it was the late signing period and there isn't much point in giving a verbal commitment at that point anyway. All I'm saying is that he was literally within a day or two of signing when Romar got a call from Washington. Romar did the classy thing and told him what was happening, and Gray decided to go to Oklahoma rather than follow Romar out to Washington. I know he wasn't 'officially' part of that recruiting class, so we won't count him. But it's another example of how close Romar was to really building something here. That's what I wanted to get across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I agree with you, I was and still am a huge Romar fan. I think Romar would have had SLU ahead of where we are now. That is not a knock on UB ... I just really like Romar ... Hollins was a pretty decent recruit ... the results didn't exactly follow, but hell thats easy to knock in hindsight. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman and loyal subject of Billsboy and all ex D1 players and coaches everywhere. You da man Billsboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Must've missed that one. I think you may be exaggerating/speculating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 "That's what I wanted to get across" And the point that I wanted to get across is that Romar sucked at SLU. He had no recruiting wins and BARELY any success on the court. If it wasn't for the infamous K-Mart injury, he would have had nothing. Brad scambled to get a class together that was actually pretty solid. Whereas Romar's class his first year sucked. Did ANY player other than Chris actually make it in the program? I can think of three people who got kicked out of school...Pully, Edwin, and McClain. Yeah, hell of a recruiter. Brad gets no credit for leading a team to the final four, so I don't think Romar should be getting credit for Washington. I could care less about Washington. Romar did nothing at SLU, but Brad now has the most athletic roster in a long time and two post season appearances. Not NCAA, but still post season. Definitely not enough, but I'm confident we ARE moving in the right direction and Brad is leading the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I don't believe Mcclain was kicked out of school. He was a non productive recruit due to injury. Besides Sloan and Fisher Romar was a bust. He may have turned it around but he left. He left brad hip deep in poopie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 i would say that josh fisher was the most successful romar recruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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