mckinney vs. liddell

[Quality Is Job 1]

So, do you think that Doug Smith was just that bad (or, more likely, overhyped) or that Richie Audubato misused him and contributed to his ruin (much in the same way that Larry Brown misused Larry Hughes and set him back)?

One thing about success in the NBA isn't that it always has to do with raw talent, but that it has to do with being in the right situation at the right time. I think that if you get Anthony Bonner in the right situation, he's still playing in the NBA.

[billiken_roy]

thicks said,

"One thing about success in the NBA isn't that it always has to do with raw talent, but that it has to do with being in the right situation at the right time. I think that if you get Anthony Bonner in the right situation, he's still playing in the NBA."

i totally agree with that statement. the coaches can make or break the players with opportunities and sit downs. i think bonner could hammer the hell out of some of these kids pretending to be power forwards these days.

the same can be said about just about any pro sport. i guess it goes to show you better grab it while you can.

[Schasz]

Generally speaking I thought that Smith sucked as a pro and IMHO it had everything to do with him and no one else.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Now that I think about it, the season that Larry Hughes had as a freshman in 1997-98 was quite similar to the season that Anthony Peeler had as a senior in 1991-92. Their supporting casts were similar and the outcomes of their seasons were similar (second round of NCAA Tournament).

Still, I think that enhances my argument that Hughes is a better player than Peeler (or anyone else I've seen come through the two schools).

As far as guard play in college that I've seen, Hughes is up there with the likes of Jason Kidd, Mike Bibby, Chris Jackson (nka Mamoud Abdul-Rauf), and Kenny Anderson. If I can think of any others, I'll add them later. The point is that Hughes is among the cream of the crop, and I've yet to see Missouri have any such player. Furthermore (the real point), Jimmy McKinney isn't in the same universe as Hughes.

I like McKinney and believe he'll be a solid contributor and scorer for Missouri throughout his career, but I doubt he'll be a star in the NBA. Just think about it: what's the best a Vashon product (or, really, any PHL product) done in the NBA in the last 20 years. Anthony Bonner sets the standard among Vashon alumni, and he played five years in the NBA. Vashon sets the standard among PHL schools. And when you look at Vashon players, you see guys who work very hard, maximize their talent, and are champions in Missouri high school ball (no big feat, right?), generally solid contributors in college (usually not stars), and of little note in the NBA. Vashon players seem to tend to peak early. Such may also be the case with McKinney. I hope he proves me wrong and goes on to be a starter in the NBA for most of a 10-year career.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I tip my hat to any player (and team) who wins a Missouri state championship, but on a national scale, a championship in Missouri is not worth a championship in many other states (or, in some cases, cities).

[Mobile-iken]

I agree, Richie Audibato wasn't the greatest coach on the planet, but he wasn't bad enough to send Doug Smith down to whatever that league is called that plays in the St. Charles Family Arena.

[mws26]

>Now that I think about it, the season that Larry Hughes had

>as a freshman in 1997-98 was quite similar to the season

>that Anthony Peeler had as a senior in 1991-92. Their

>supporting casts were similar and the outcomes of their

>seasons were similar (second round of NCAA Tournament).

>

>Still, I think that enhances my argument that Hughes is a

>better player than Peeler (or anyone else I've seen come

>through the two schools).

Thicks, that does qualify it then. Since they had very similar seasons and pretty good results, the edge has to go to the guy that did it as a Freshman as opposed to the senior.

I still have this urge to wonder what Peeler could have done with a different coach. By the same token, it was the indoctrination in and emphasis on fundamentals and defense that has kept Peeler in the league as his athleticism has deteriorated with age. AP had some springs in college...no more!

My two cents on Hughes -- I'm shocked at how mediocre he's been so far in his career. I suppose he's still young, but I expected this guy to one day dominate in the NBA. Was this unrealistic? BRoy, was it you that said he's looking like a new player so far in preseason??

[Schasz]

mws26,

I'd agree that overall his career in the NBA has not met up with expectations that I had for a lottery pick. I saw him a couple times when I lived in Seattle and was disappointed.

Hopefully, for his own sake, he will get it together this year. We'll just have to see what a good preseason translates into. I'm still pulling for this Larry to lift his game.

[billiken_roy]

i check the washington post about every other day specifically to see if there is any hughes news. plus i read two wizards message boards. the talk all winter was he would be traded as there was no room in the backcourt for him. about two weeks ago an article was printed that said he really worked hard on the weights in the offseason and shot a lot.

today the follow up on his game last night vs the knicks was very positive. he started as the 2 guards (moved stackhouse to small forward) and led the team in points, minutes played, steals, and was only one off the team lead in rebounds as well.

the message boards are now changing their tune as well thinking a different larry.

i am the biggest hughes fan in the world, but i too would say he has not lived up to the potential. yet, that doesnt mean he has been a failure. especially considering he is still just 24 years old.

[mws26]

>i am the biggest hughes fan in the world, but i too would

>say he has not lived up to the potential. yet, that doesnt

>mean he has been a failure. especially considering he is

>still just 24 years old.

Wow!! I knew he was young but didn't realize he was still only 24. So if he played four years in college he'd be a third year player right now. Good for Hughes. Hopefully his career is on the up swing over the next several years!!

[p diddy]

billiken roy, what is the address of the wizards message board sites.

bad boyz for life

[SLUNATE]

if it comes down to who can eat the most whities...i vote McKinney

[billiken_roy]

http://basketballboards.net/forum/forumdis...p?s=&forumid=40

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewforum.php...484b0a6ae0461bc

[thetorch]

Smith was way overhyped. What was he picked 4th or 5th maybe 6th?

Smith in college was a pretty dominat post player, but even at college standards he was soft. He had no shot outside of 5 feet. That can get you to the NCAAs to lose to Northern Iowa, but it gets you nowhere in the pros.

Smith was a victim of many things. One he wasn't as good as Dallas or anyone else thought. Two like many other players he equated being able to bang inside in the NBA with just adding more weight, ie Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker et al. Smith would have been a decent player maybe if he had played at 250, but at 300, 325 he killed any chance of being a success. Three coaching was awful, Smith had no idea what he was doing inside and wasted most of his time playing out of his range. Four the Mavericks in those days were a trainwreck, Roy Tarpley is not who want to be your mentor. The Mavs had some of the worst personalities in the NBA, maybe as bad as the Jailblazers of today.

Smith eventually learned how to play. I watched him with the Swarm and he was dominant, a much better player than he was when he broke in the league. It took him ten years to figure out how to play and realize what he can do effectively.

[thetorch]

I wouldn't expect Hughes to beat that KU team by himself. Every one of their starters and a couple guys off the bench played professionally. That KU team was awesome in that it had so much talent but really no huge star or dominant top player.