billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 i was listening to kfns just moments ago and frank is on with tiger tim, charlie tuna and via phone, floyd irons. they were discussing what floyd was interviewed about when he was interogated by the ncaa in the missouri investigation. irons said in his opinion that it was nothing as there is nothing to find. when frank asked him why the ncaa interviewed him then, he responded with he guessed because jimmy mckinney went to missouri and he was the first vashon player to go there in 30 years. frank tried to go on to something else and floyd then barged in with a statement that maybe they should be looking into why the ncaa isnt looking into saint louis university recruiting dwayne polk. tuna chimes in with a sarcastic oh they would never investigate saint louis university. frank i guess properly ignored both statements and went on to the vashon basketball showdown this weekend. on one hand i wish frank would have pinned irons and tuna on the jerkoff statements, on the other, i guess to let it go is best. however based on the tone of irons statement, i would bet that irons is not happy that brad went around him to recruit polk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 at his antagonists. He's just frustrated with the innuendo that he was paid off to steer players to Mizzou. He feels it's unsubstantiated and without basis. Why can it be as simple as Norm leaving the program? It's been widely confirmed that neither guy liked the other. There are still very bitter feelings about how Norm handled a former Vashon player in the 70s. We'll find out soon who will be vindicated. Irons or his haters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2003 Author Share Posted December 5, 2003 aj said, "He's just frustrated with the innuendo that he was paid off to steer players to Mizzou. He feels it's unsubstantiated and without basis." if that is all it was about, then why the need to bring up slu? no there is more to it than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I agree that Floyd was probably only using the comparison and suggesting that the MU recruiting gets a great deal more scrutiny than the Billikens. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt in light of his nice comments earlier about Polk coming to SLU and Coach Brad. At the present time there is significant "smoke" surrounding the MU program so many see "fire". Unfortunately, anyone involved in the recruiting at MU, and the coaches who were involved on behalf of the kids, will be under the microscope for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzah Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 About a month ago the Columbia Tribune interviewed a law professor from Drake. He said the NCAA does not investigate unless something is going on. He thought Mizzou's best course was to self impose penalties, to lighten NCAA sanctions. My guess is Mizzou ends up on some type of probation, Snyder winds up out west, in approximately the same area as the DePaul coach, Pat Kennedy, and some of the commitments by recruits cancel out. Also keep in mind the FBI is investigating separate from the NCAA. Iron's shot will be muted by the shot the NCAA is going to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 but AJ's explanation makes sense to me. Floyd doesn't have any other D1 recruits to compare with besides Polk. I also doubt Brad "went around" Floyd in order to get Polk's committment. I doubt there will ever be a day that Floyd can be eliminated from the recruiting process and I hope that SLU keeps good relations with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2003 Author Share Posted December 5, 2003 huzzah, i am a big believer in "you reap what you sow", but i cant help but believe that "someone" is making sure the damage is slight. my gosh, to even think that academic pasts like clemmons and pulley could get in the door at a school is crazy. when it came out the other day that pulley was cleared, that was enough for me to lose faith in the system. walmart gift certificates for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2003 Author Share Posted December 5, 2003 the story i heard is that brad found out that polk was an academic all star and his parents were very concerned that dwayne went somewhere to maximize his academic potential. it was found that there was a particular teacher that was somewhat of a mentor to dwayne and the original contacts were started through that mentor and emphasis was on academic potential of dwayne via saint louis university. by the time floyd was in on it, it was all but a done deal already. that is third hand, but it flys with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFAN2000 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Word on the AP-wire is that meetings between the MU higher ups and the NCAA went well, and that it is likely that the only result of this investigation might be some self-imposed recruiting restrictions. This is all circumstantial evidence though, and nothing is guaranteed. A tiger fan can hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwd456 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 KC Star article this morning, says that academic fraud is no longer part of the NCAA probe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 If it is true, Brad should be congratulated on his ability to recognize the true power figures in Polk's life and use them to his advantage. However, if Floyd truly feels that he was stepped around that doesn't bode well for future Vashon recruits (and there will always be future Vashon players we want). I've got to wonder about the wisdom of that. I still think AJ's comment makes sense though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2003 Author Share Posted December 5, 2003 yes in fact missouri has used the occasion to show the world they are actually an academic powerhouse. the fact they have been able to catchup the likes of pulley and clemons academically speaks volumes about the school's prowess in the classroom. the true oxford of the midwest imo. seriously, letting this stuff go through makes the ncaa look either foolish or as crooked as can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwd456 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I knew you'd react that way. You're a strange dude Roy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2003 Author Share Posted December 5, 2003 how can you defend what the supposed academic claims of making both pulley and clemons eligible are? pulley didnt have a single credit from slu. yet we are to believe he not only passed all his classes at barton last year but also the needed credits to make up all the slu f's? same with clemons. the amount of course work he made up is staggering. imo, to even consider accepting any transcripts that would say that is true is academic fraud by itself. let alone the possibilities that odom had a hand in "fixing" any of the paperwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Roy, I am not a Mizzou defender by any stretch of the imagination, but it is very likely that Pulley qualified in accordance with the rules. He did pass one semester at SLU, and it is only a rumor (not a fact) that he didn't pass any classes during the second semester at SLU. He qualified out of high school, so he isn't dumb. Under the NCAA rules, his grades at SLU don't impact his eligibility at other D1 institutions so long at least one year has past. If Pulley successfully completed his course work during his two semesters and one summer in juco, he should be eligible. It is not fair or right to allege rules violations by Mizzou with respect to Pulley. If anything, SLU and Romar should be criticized for not taking steps to prevent Pulley from failing so miserably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big City Bob Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Roy, I assume Charlie "Tuna" Edwards was just being sarcastic when he said that the NCAA wouldn't investigate SLU. I didn't hear that part of Frank's show, but I caught a few minutes of it at the beginning, before they had Irons on the line. Charlie complained that years ago he was interrogated by the NCAA as a result of an accusation by Mizzou that he was involved in the recruitment of Monroe Douglass and Roland Gray. Apparently Tuna was associated with a shoe company which had a contract with SLU at the time. He disavowed any involvement in their recruitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I've tried to be open-minded, but that's impossible with you. It's amazing how much credence you give to area coaches, who despise Irons and Quin. I must admit with all of the negative media and smoke that Mizzou was in trouble. In fact, they still might be. However, it will not be because their academic support program is crooked. What more evidence do you need? Mizzou's president Elson Floyd named a faculty member to oversee Mizzou's investigation. I could be wrong, but I believe it was Kessler. This guy goes on KFNS and basically takes shots at the athletic department. Not exactly unbiased in my book... I'm sure he would be anxious to kick Quin to the curb. HOWEVER, President Elson Floyd meets with NCAA officials and leaves the meeting confident that no academic malfeasance took place. Can't you just accept that fact?? Now Mizzou is still in hot water with claims that money and clothes were given to Clemons. Trust me, there are faculty members on that investigation committee who are just as anxious as you to rid themselves of Quin. However, they still need to find the proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFAN2000 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 That's exactly it- And those allegations (at least for now) seem to be a "her word vs. his word" type thing. The fact of the matter is, they don't seem to hold up. If they do find something, then I will agree that something needs to be done- but Quin admitted to the minor clothes given to clemons, and to me (and my biased self) it sounds more like a coach trying to help a troubled young man. If they find anything more serious, then by all means- institute some sort of ban. And don't think that SLU is somehow far and away better than Mizzou academically. Private does not necessarily mean "better." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 "HOWEVER, President Elson Floyd meets with NCAA officials and leaves the meeting confident that no academic malfeasance took place." President Elson Floyd has already proven himself to be totally devoid of both ethics and common sense. The Clemons ATV debacle showed the common sense part; the fact that he hasn't publicly apologized for the ADMITTED academic malfeasance shows his sense of ethics. Once more, with feeling: Any student with a transcript showing 24 credit hours earned in a single summer has committed academic fraud. Any institution who accepts ANY of those hours is complicit in academic fraud. The fact that NO ONE at the University of Missouri has even apologized for this, let alone been fired for it, is clear indication of the total lack of standards, ethics or managerial control at the University. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFAN2000 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Why is that so hard to believe? I have a friend right now who's taking 22 credit hours. Yeah it's a load, but he's still doing it. How much longer is a semester than a summer? It may be fraud, but not just because 24 credits are at issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I see you've learned to type much more clearly. This form of your personality is a welcome addition to the board. A standard load for a semester is 15 hours. A standard load for a summer is 6 hours. I once took 21 hours in a regular semester, and it was, shall we say, pretty difficult. I'm just finishing up a semester teaching at Washington U., and a couple of my students had to drop because 18 hours was too much for them. Your friend is to be admired, but it's certainly an exception to the rule. 9 hours in a summer would have been remarkable. 12 hours would have been Herculean. 24 was fraud, pure and simple. The fact that the President of the University system chooses to ignore this casts him and the University in a most unfavorable light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFAN2000 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I don't know all the specifics of the Randy Pulley situation, nor do I care to (I honestly feel as though Jimmy McKinney is our best option at point right now), but I will say that I don't think it's fair to just assume that a program and an association are crooked just because their findings happened to hold up mizzou's academics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 All good points. I am more offended about the University of Missouri's, and particularly the MU athletic department's, failure to apologize to a former student who was ran out of town for being beaten up by a thug basketball player. The university, including the President, bent over backwards to support the admitted criminal woman beater, but has done everything short of publicly trashing the victim. Boy am I proud to pay thousands of tax dollars every year to the great State of Missouri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 We're talking about Clemons, for whom we do know the specifics, because he publicly released his transcripts. 24 hours in one summer. Academic fraud. No shades of gray whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFAN2000 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Clemons? Who's clemons? He's not in the media guide... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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