cheesycow Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 for as much as you call Tiger fans jerks, I've never heard one of them lash out at Kansas (a rivalry no doubt more intense than that of Mizzou/SLU) like this: "We hate the arrogant, pigheaded, egotistical, drunk, loudmouthed, unknowing, smug, superior, delusional, paranoid, and myopic Tigger fans." If you think that I'm arrogant, I point to posters here telling me "I can't afford to go to a real school." If you think I'm pigheaded, I point to Roy (who, for all is admirable qualities, is as pigheaded as they come). If you think I'm a drunk- I suggest you go back to SLU every once in a while on a saturday night. SLU and Mizzou aren't so different as you'd like to believe, and their fans are just further proof. Mizzou fans can be jerks, but so can SLU fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 If you asked any tiger fan their most hated player, they would name a Kansas Jayhawk (our biggest rival). It would seem to me that since most (probably not all, but most) consider Mizzou their biggest "rival," the same thing might happen. I wasn't saying it had to happen, just noting that it was kind of funny that while most people here harbor a hatred for mizzou the likes i've never seen, they don't seem to hate the people who actually play the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 i know i have told you a million times and i think a few others have as well, it is the typical mi$$ouri fan that causes most of us to hate the tiger$. not the players. however, i must say that $nyder has done plenty to fester the hatred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 but whatever you gotta do, i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 who here said you cant afford to go to slu? i think you did once, but i dont think any of us ever did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Alonzo hawk made a snide remark about me not being able to afford a "real" education about a month ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 "relatively low cost? can't afford a real education...i'm glad to see my money is being wasted on fools like you, chump." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Cheesycow, it is interesting that your replies generally involve the "look at you, you aren't perfect" routine. A few actual points of discussion about basketball FACTS, something in short supply for the obsession regarding Mizzou. I laughed at a few Mizzou fans last summer when they stated that Mizzou was a top five team. To wit- 1. Randy Pulley was the top PG in JUCOland, and would lead MOO to the promised land. Randy did not have the handle, could not penetrate and dish, and was a step or two slow to be a top PG. He had no outside shot, and was average on D. 2. Jimmy Mac is no PG, and not really a SG. He has no handle, is not a good passer, is a very streaky shooter, and also is a step slow for a WF, his best swing position. 3. Paulding is Paulding- uncoachable, prone to hoist, atheletic but without handle, passing, or the desire to be a good bee in a halfcourt offense. 4. Jman has poor hands and needs good passes to score well in the paint. Due to MOO's lack of a point guard, he did not get fed these good entry passes, and disappeared for most of the season. 5. MOO's best entry passer was Kroenke, who was a liability on the floor on D. Illinois abused him. 6. MOO had top five talent, but no top five glue. Poor coaching and limiting guard play doom them again next year. This is a post that has some substance. Try these, you'll like them and people will think you know more than you actually may. As far as MOO fans, I was at last year's MU/IL game. A drunk MOO fan was in our row with his fiance and her folks. The guy was a jerk most of the game, telling us how he was going to kick the sht out of me if I would put my nine month old down. With six minutes left in the game he poured a full beer on my baby boy. His fiance's Dad decked him, saving me the fun. Daughter ended up transferring to SLU, due to parents' worries. Previous to that, didn't Chief Illiniwek get taken out by an inebriated fan at halfcourt? When I hear it from Iowa, Illinois, Gonzaga, and Kansas(ok archrival, but still) fans that MOO fans are the worst, and witness it firsthand, I tend to judge well. I have walked into over 100 different arenas, and the only one that has come close to MOO level is Notre Dame. One final point...you seem to take these posts a little personally. I do make allowances for real MOO basketball fans, but you generally can distinguish them by their apologies at the start of their posts these days. The true basketball fans are in misery over this mess, and 99% of the SLU fans can empathize. The run of the mill MOO fans tend to only make contrary posts. If you want to post here, and generally make contrary posts, we will happily save you a place in the huddled masses of unwashed Boonites; but it is much nicer carrying on good conversations with good fans. And if you are the one who poured a beer on a nine month old last December, pray to God I don't see you again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Would you like a post of substance in the same manner that your posts have substance? One time I was at a Mizzou/SLU game, and a SLU fan in my row was fat, hairy, bald, overweight, and obviously drunk. He not only threw a beer at me, he peed on me and then told me I was a racist. Needless to say, everyone in the section proceeded to transfer to Mizzou if they didn't already go there. "I laughed at a few Mizzou fans last summer when they stated that Mizzou was a top five team. To wit-" It wasn't us that proclaimed ourselves a top 5 team. It was every national publication, and as Mizzou fans, many of us were skeptical of this team. NO ONE predicted this season, even Mizzou's biggest detractors predicted mizzou would make the tourney, and at least be a top 25 team by season's end. "Previous to that, didn't Chief Illiniwek get taken out by an inebriated fan at halfcourt? When I hear it from Iowa, Illinois, Gonzaga, and Kansas(ok archrival, but still) fans that MOO fans are the worst, and witness it firsthand, I tend to judge well. I have walked into over 100 different arenas, and the only one that has come close to MOO level is Notre Dame." What about Kansas fans slashing cars with Missouri and Nebraska tires after losses? what about kansas fans throwing "urine bombs" on Mizzou fans after beating us in football this year? Every team claims their fans are angels, when really every team has rowdy jerks. To quote Billiken Law: "Just as an FYI, I have witnessed my fellow SLU students also starting fights with opposing fans - many times instigating altercations with older fans. In fact, a jesuit friend of mine watched a SLU student punch out a 50-something Arizona fan who was trying to leave the game this past December. Let's not go down the holier than thou path here. " And calling me an "unwashed boonite" reveals you as being the immature name-caller that i'm unfortunately starting to associate with SLU fans. Are you proud of the image you are portraying to would-be supporters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 The opposing part means players we hated to see play the Billikens. This would mean players that we play on a regular basis. Considering we have played Missouri twice in the last 25 years and some other teams 25 times in the last 25 years like Depaul and Marquette I think Missouri players would not be most people's top choices. If I had to pick a missouri player it would be Wesley Stokes since he made the shot that beat us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 gut feeling hatred. I hate Gerry MacNamara, for instance, just because I don't like the cut of his jib. I hate every kansas player just because of who they are. I guess i did miss the point. I didn't realize it was "hate to play against." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 i think it is amusing you seem to be upset that none of us "hated" tiger player$. hate to disappoint you, but it would make sense that we hate players that actually play against the billikens. remember, $nyder wont play us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I just thought it funny. It's really no skin off my nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Troll, go home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 you should try it sometime. Grow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Troll, go home. Like many MOO fans, every post requires further footnotes and explanations. There are fans for opposing teams that are bitter court rivals, and yet have wonderful personal friendships. There are fans that don't know how to think, or choose not to do such. My previous post left it open for you to choose which of the two you might fall. You decided I had insulted you. It might be good for you to take a logic class at MOO, if it will fit your schedule, next fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 You haven't brought up any logical arguments for me to dissect, really. All you've done is repeatedly tried to call me stupid, unwashed, and uneducated, and you have assumed that any notion contrary to that is precluded by your baseless assumptions about my character due to some bizarre encounter with some jerk who spilled beer on your child. I say it again, grow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Sheltiedave, I enjoy your posts and appreciate how staunch of a defender of the Billikens you are, but I think you went overboard with this one. How can you rip most of the 2003-04 Tigers players and then say they had Top 5 talent? You said they had no point guard, you made Randy Pulley sound worse than Dibi Ray. You threw dirt on Rickey Paulding. You made Jimmy McKinney sound worse than Johnnie Parker (jr). You made Josh Kroenke sound worse than Danny Allouche. Nevertheless, they had the talent of one of the five best teams in the country? (Did I miss a note of sarcasm, perhaps?) As a Tigers fan, I can accept it if you say the Tigers were overrated. I can accept it if you say they were poorly coached. But for you to say that they were one of the five most talented teams in the country after bad-mouthing the players is just wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Thicks, the vast majority of college teams have major holes in their program - players are not fundamentally sound in all levels of their game. The Tigers this year had Johnson, Bryant, Kleiza, Paulding, Kroenke, Gardner, Jimmy Mac, Randy Pulley, and Conley in their significant rotation. Any of these would be a starter, or see > 15 min per game, on 90% of high level Division 1 programs. Young and Laurie would play > 5 minutes per game at 50 % of DI programs. MOO had so much talent that it created a big problem for Q. He could not adequately develop a coherent sub pattern. The talent overall was tremendous. I have yet to hear a significant basketball pundit state that MOO did not have top shelf talent. What MOO did not have was a killer in each of the big areas - defensive stopper, rebounder, scorer, zone buster, jets, coach on the floor with handles. The closest two in this regard were Jimmy Mac and Kleiza, yet Q never carved room out to develop these aspects. Jimmy Mac lost some confidence and had his playing time accordian during the season. He is still developing his handle, but I'm amazed that a PG of Q's college caliber can not develop Mac's ability faster. It is not from lack of heart or trying on Mac's side. Kleiza is a barrel of pluses, including his temper and agressive tendancy to foul. He should have been a starter from early in the season, even sacrificing a few more turnovers a game. MOO only averaged more than 15 a game anyway, the biggest tipoff that handles, passing, and catching were not part of the coaching plan. Paulding is a supreme atheletic specimen. He was the best athelete on the floor at the bragging rights game four years ago, but he never developed into the NBA star of Anthony Peeler's caliber. At worst, Q should have developed RP into the defensive stopper that Moon McCrary and Julian Winfield bought into. RP has world class talent and college sophomore gameset. I chalk this up as another Q failure. Gardner and Conley can fill the basket up every game, and yet they were not given the green light. As a result, Johnson looked like a strip of bacon in a BLT down low - everyone collapsed two bodies on him. Bryant is a good leaker to the 3 pt line. Randy P is good at pushing the ball, if he curtailed his forays all the way into the 8 ft zone around the basket. This team was a perfect transition team if they pushed the ball, with atheletes whose handles would not be exposed in a rebound and run scenario. Kroenke and Bryant were the leakers sliding out to the line to set up the initial offense, with Jimmy, Paulding, and Conley cutting to the lane. Johnson would have needed to give up position a third of the time, but the lost season showed his hard won position was ill used the majority of the time anyway. The majority of this post should have been on the defensive side of the team effort, but again it reflects on Q. Poorly. The amount of criticism is a reflection of the overwhelming talent that MOO had. It is harder to criticize a lesser player who has developed his skills set to the max, while you have an NBA talent that scores six points and four rebounds in a listless performance. A team that can crack OKState and race Kansas should breathe fire for 25 outta 30 games a year, not 5 outta 30. The Tigers did have top 5 talent, just not in the needed mix. Their season is a direct reflection on how they were coached, however, as they never should have been outside the top 25. And cheesyman, I see two types of people on the Bills forum. There are basketball junkies who hang out here as part of their basketball jones, and there are casual fans who kill some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 This is not the MIZZOU BOARD!!!! When you dredge up this kind of drivel you are a pest. We barely play Mizzou. The is no real rivalry. We might as well pick out the Savannah State player we hate the most. P.S. YOU really don't have to look far at all to see why many of us hate Mizzou....an ambassador you are NOT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Sheltiedave, I like the start that you are getting on our board as you are a very knowledgeable and astute fan of the college game. I'd agree with your takes on Mizzou. It is amazing to me that Q who was a pretty decent PG at Duke cannot develop one at Mizzou. Frankly, I think this guy is all fluff and no substance when it comes to the teaching aspects of the game. Over the long haul, I think SLU has a much better HC...but then again, only time will tell as he does still need to get us to the Big Dance. With a decent recruit at the 4 this spring, I would like our chances to get to that goal next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenButch Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Your need to respond and continue the thread suggests that this skin off your nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Do they have a correspondence course in logic that MooFan could fit into his already crowded academic schedule at SPUMAC???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 a very interesting thread about our feelings for past billikens etc has now been diverted into a missouri thing again. accomplished by you. you need to pick the times to start your missouri b.s. please because you again ruined a great topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 sheltie said, "Johnson looked like a strip of bacon in a BLT down low" sounds like sheltie had avis for writing class to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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