OT: It is NOT...

[courtside]

No, its called "reality".

Facts are facts, the truth is there is no interest in it...not a good product to watch, and not comperable competition. Good for the players and good for the parents to watch.

Have any of you even been to a women's NCAA Championship? Or just your daughters middle school games?

I support the men's tourney.

Among others, I was THERE in 1973:

UCLA pounded Memphis State at The Arena in St. Louis.

Walton with 21 of 22 FG's. Five of the UCLA cheerleaders came with us to Bogarts after the game to hang out; in their UCLA cheerleader outfits. It was remarkable, surreal.

It's quite possible for you to have a "remarkable," and "surreal," time, and, for you to "support the men's tourney," while also being able to understand and respect something different too.

No one is going to take away your memory. If you were secure, and if you didn't have fear, you'd already have known that. Just as no one is going to take away the memories of those who followed the women's streak.

[kevinfootes]

The highest rated golf event in the past four years without Tiger Woods is 3.75 a few years ago when Tom Watson was threatening late in a major. Dozens and dozens and dozens of events with ratings in the ones and twos...vs double and triple the ratings when Woods competes. Not even close. And, these ratings have been well after he rejuvenated ratings and interest to save golf from being a fading old man with plaid pants game.

MLS originally played its games in existing stadiums in its markets. Most of these were American Football Stadiums. They did this because they had to and not wanted to do so. The plan was to implement 20k soccer specific stadiums in all markets and it still is the plan.

What I said was the casual soccer fan wants to see the sport at its highest level, similar to other sports. The highest level in terms of league play is not in the U.S. Ratings are higher for the early morning European league games vs the better time of day, prime time MLS games. The people have spoken. Of course interest in the World Cup and Olympics will be higher, just as they are higher than a lot of other sports events too.

Tiger has only missed a few majors in the past 4 years. That's not a sufficient sample size anyway. Tiger (along with the Nike push supporting him) had obviously helped the ratings. You just can't claim that golf didn't get good ratings before he came along.

If the plan all along was to play in smaller venues, why was an expanded soccer park rejected? I may be "misremembering" but as I recall StL was told that a 50K stadium was needed.

[jbizzle09]

No, its called "reality".

Facts are facts, the truth is there is no interest in it...not a good product to watch, and not comperable competition. Good for the players and good for the parents to watch.

Have any of you even been to a women's NCAA Championship? Or just your daughters middle school games?

I support the men's tourney.

Among others, I was THERE in 1973:

UCLA pounded Memphis State at The Arena in St. Louis.

Walton with 21 of 22 FG's. Five of the UCLA cheerleaders came with us to Bogarts after the game to hang out; in their UCLA cheerleader outfits. It was remarkable, surreal.

So what does this have to do with Wooden laughing at women's basketball behind the scenes? We get it. You hate women's basketball. You saw some great games back in the day. Nothing that the UConn women recently did is going to take away from that. However, the more you project your anger the smaller you appear as a man. There is no need for you to make things up about great coaches of the past to make yourself feel better about your own opinion. Do I like to watch women's basketball? No, not really. But I don't feel a need to make a spectacle of myself pointing out how inferior I feel it is to men's basketball.

Extra points go to you for also making sure to do a little objectifying of women in your last sentence. I think we know where you think women belong when it comes to sports.

[moytoy12]

So what does this have to do with Wooden laughing at women's basketball behind the scenes? We get it. You hate women's basketball. You saw some great games back in the day. Nothing that the UConn women recently did is going to take away from that. However, the more you project your anger the smaller you appear as a man. There is no need for you to make things up about great coaches of the past to make yourself feel better about your own opinion. Do I like to watch women's basketball? No, not really. But I don't feel a need to make a spectacle of myself pointing out how inferior I feel it is to men's basketball.

Extra points go to you for also making sure to do a little objectifying of women in your last sentence. I think we know where you think women belong when it comes to sports.

MB is a pretty small-minded individual. Plenty of borderline racist and sexist comments on this board to support this notion.

[moytoy12]

I'm not discounting the different types of soccer fans in U.S. Suburban upper middle class, 1st or 2nd generation immigrants, etc...and so on....my point is still the same.

The average soccer fan in the U.S. Wants to see the best level of play. The very best Americans play in Europe, as do the very best South Americans, Africans, etc...and fans throughout the world follow these leagues the most.

If you go to...say...Central America, soccer fans there follow the European Leagues most. In particular, Real Madrid and FC Barcelona the most in terms of club teams...however you'll also see lots of fans of the non-Hispanic location based European teams as well. ...If you go to...say...Chicago Fire games in MLS...there is a large portion of Hispanic supporters. It's their local team. And as the level of play increases, so does their support. They want to go in person to support the local team and for their fandom of the sport. .......U.S. Immigrants from Europe will support their European leagues and teams, not just because that's what they know or came from...but also because those leagues are the best in the world. If that ever changed those fans would support the local American leagues more...I.e. MLS...etc...

I wouldn't also discount the intelligence of the average American soccer fan. They know the best leagues are in Europe and that's what they watch the most. MLS is a distant second. As is the case with many other start up leagues, lots more bandwagon fans out there than pioneers.

It's still a matter of following the best.

You said the casual fan in the US wants to watch the best leagues. i) that is an opinion mr. objective. ii) It's not necessarily true. The casual fan in the U.S. might watch MLS as much as the European league. The European leagues in the US might get more ratings support because both a portion of the casual fan plus the diehards transplanted from parts unknown love the European leagues.

[courtside]

You said the casual fan in the US wants to watch the best leagues. A) that is an opinion mr. objective. It's not necessarily true. The casual fan in the U.S. might watch MLS as much as the European league. The European leagues in the US might get more ratings support because both a portion of the casual fan plus the diehards transplanted from parts unknown love the European leagues.

I thought you only posted objective facts?

One thing that is consistent in America is that the most fan support is for the highest level of play or leagues in any sport at any level. Soccer is of course unique for America in that it hasn't had the best league(s) or players. As that changes so will the support. ....example... For many years the NHL was the best and most supported hockey league using mostly non-American players.

An average fan includes a mix of all types of soccer fans to get an average fan. There will always be different types of soccer fans within the category.

[courtside]

Tiger has only missed a few majors in the past 4 years. That's not a sufficient sample size anyway. Tiger (along with the Nike push supporting him) had obviously helped the ratings. You just can't claim that golf didn't get good ratings before he came along.

If the plan all along was to play in smaller venues, why was an expanded soccer park rejected? I may be "misremembering" but as I recall StL was told that a 50K stadium was needed.

5 out of the last 12 and 7 out of the last 20 majors Tiger Woods has missed the event or not been competitive late in the event causing big tv ratings slide. 40 percent and 35 percent. That sample size is big enough for me. Golf's ratings in the current day of competitive cable and satellite programming and sports programming etc...ratings, ticket sales, sponsorships, event cancellations, all affected in astronomical way by Tiger Woods. Double and triple differences in ratings for when he plays and competes well and when he doesn't. Golf has had good ratings, but the competitive landscape to get those ratings and revenue has changed dramatically since the times you are discussing.

You "misremembered" about the soccer venues. Soccer Park holds about 6k. It would definitely have to be expanded and upgraded massively in terms of quality for MLS levels. It's also of course on a flood plain. But 50k? Not sure where you heard that one? If you look around the league, slowly but surely teams are building the 20k venues. And, this began many years ago and is not a recent phenomenom.

[kevinfootes]

5 out of the last 12 and 7 out of the last 20 majors Tiger Woods has missed the event or not been competitive late in the event causing big tv ratings slide. 40 percent and 35 percent. That sample size is big enough for me. Golf's ratings in the current day of competitive cable and satellite programming and sports programming etc...ratings, ticket sales, sponsorships, event cancellations, all affected in astronomical way by Tiger Woods. Double and triple differences in ratings for when he plays and competes well and when he doesn't. Golf has had good ratings, but the competitive landscape to get those ratings and revenue has changed dramatically since the times you are discussing.

You "misremembered" about the soccer venues. Soccer Park holds about 6k. It would definitely have to be expanded and upgraded massively in terms of quality for MLS levels. It's also of course on a flood plain. But 50k? Not sure where you heard that one? If you look around the league, slowly but surely teams are building the 20k venues. And, this began many years ago and is not a recent phenomenom.

I see you don't work with statistics very much, and you changed the point to include "not being competitive". In any case, my point has been that men's golf was popular before Woods came along and will be popular after he's gone. You've done nothing to refute that. Also, I've never disputed Tiger's impact on ratings. He's obviously the big draw.

The plan was to expand soccer park to about 10-12K, and StL never got serious consideration because that was deemed too small by the league. Flood plain? When had that ever stopped anything in this town? Do you remember where Bidwill wanted to build his football stadium?

[courtside]

I see you don't work with statistics very much, and you changed the point to include "not being competitive". In any case, my point has been that men's golf was popular before Woods came along and will be popular after he's gone. You've done nothing to refute that. Also, I've never disputed Tiger's impact on ratings. He's obviously the big draw.

The plan was to expand soccer park to about 10-12K, and StL never got serious consideration because that was deemed too small by the league. Flood plain? When had that ever stopped anything in this town? Do you remember where Bidwill wanted to build his football stadium?

Nope. You didn't like the sample size, of which with I was fine. I didn't change anything. And, once again, the point is still the same. Tiger plays vs Tiger not playing. Tiger plays well vs Tiger not playing well. It affects golf ratings double and triple. Golf gie hards might care about the likes of Phil Mickelson, Fred Couples and insert player here, but the masses don't. Woods changes golf ratings astronomically up and down.

First you tell me that the plan was to expand soccer park to 50k which was too big. Now you tell me the plan was to expand to 10-12k which was too small. And you've also thrown in a ...you may have misremembered. The league has not changed its position. Build new soccer specific stadiums. Expanding soccer park wasn't going to ccomplish that. Tearing everything down and building from scratch was the only option at that site.

[MB73]

MB is a pretty small-minded individual. Plenty of borderline racist and sexist comments on this board to support this notion.

My observation is that whenever you do not get your way, you play the race card, pull it from out of nowhere. Some personal problems, I assume. Sexist? I just belive that the media hype on U Conn women and the Tennessee coach that surpassed Dean Smith & Adolph Rupp in wins was over hyped, pure blatant political correctness. How dare anyone argue the relevant points, or nuts like you will play the sexist card.

[Quality Is Job 1]

MB is a pretty small-minded individual. Plenty of borderline racist and sexist comments on this board to support this notion.

I agree. He seems to be very "old-school" — not in a good way. But just because a person is a bigot (not saying MB73 necessarily is one) doesn't mean everything he believes is incorrect.

[moytoy12]

I agree. He seems to be very "old-school" — not in a good way. But just because a person is a bigot (not saying MB73 necessarily is one) doesn't mean everything he believes is incorrect.

Great point and agree. I think i have actually agreed with him from time-to-time.

[slufanskip]

My observation is that whenever you do not get your way, you play the race card, pull it from out of nowhere. Some personal problems, I assume. Sexist? I just belive that the media hype on U Conn women and the Tennessee coach that surpassed Dean Smith & Adolph Rupp in wins was over hyped, pure blatant political correctness. How dare anyone argue the relevant points, or nuts like you will play the sexist card.

I would agree based upon the fact that people are less interested in womens basketball and womens sports in general. I wouldn't agree it's a lesser feat. Like I said before, I can't understand why women and families with girls in sports don't seem to care more.

[moytoy12]

My observation is that whenever you do not get your way, you play the race card, pull it from out of nowhere. Some personal problems, I assume. Sexist? I just belive that the media hype on U Conn women and the Tennessee coach that surpassed Dean Smith & Adolph Rupp in wins was over hyped, pure blatant political correctness. How dare anyone argue the relevant points, or nuts like you will play the sexist card.

You're exactly right. I have personal problems.

You follow sports. You know who the "black" guy on PTI is. You've had a number of borderline comments like this that support my beliefs about you.

I don't particularly like women's bball or the uconn coach, but the streak is impressive. It deserves to be hyped and even a little overhyped.

Further, I don't think overhyping the streak is a result of political correctness. It's what the media does with all these streaks and records (e.g. Brett Favre).

[MB73]

You're exactly right. I have personal problems.

You follow sports. You know who the "black" guy on PTI is. You've had a number of borderline comments like this that support my beliefs about you.

I don't particularly like women's bball or the uconn coach, but the streak is impressive. It deserves to be hyped and even a little overhyped.

Further, I don't think overhyping the streak is a result of political correctness. It's what the media does with all these streaks and records (e.g. Brett Favre).

So that is what set you off into a hissy-fit-rage? Should I have Googled his name? Or called him an African American? What are the rules this week? Calm down.

Several times I congratulated the U Conn women on their streak, just that it is not comperable to Wooden/UCLA.

Sexist? A lot of other posters wrote actual sexist remarks, you did not respond to them... what, did you all go to the same Metro Catholic Conference High School together? Gang up on MB73? You got a "club"? Courtside apparently is a licensed psychiatrist (he knows everything). moytoy12, you attack from the most pathetic, desperate perspective. Sad.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

You're exactly right. I have personal problems.

You follow sports. You know who the "black" guy on PTI is. You've had a number of borderline comments like this that support my beliefs about you.

I don't particularly like women's bball or the uconn coach, but the streak is impressive. It deserves to be hyped and even a little overhyped.

Further, I don't think overhyping the streak is a result of political correctness. It's what the media does with all these streaks and records (e.g. Brett Favre).

Boytoy-

Calm down. The streak deserves to be talked about and hyped up.....maybe on an ESPN Women's Channel.

[moytoy12]

So that is what set you off into a hissy-fit-rage? Should I have Googled his name? Or called him an African American? What are the rules this week? Calm down.

The rules this week are the same as every other week. Don't be a bigot. It's gonna be a tough week for you.

[moytoy12]

Boytoy-

Calm down. The streak deserves to be talked about and hyped up.....maybe on an ESPN Women's Channel.

Wouldn't be able tune in to ESPN Women today, too many good movies on Lifetime.

What are you doing on the board right now? Don't you have a 2-man luge practice to get to?

[courtside]

My observation is that whenever you do not get your way, you play the race card, pull it from out of nowhere. Some personal problems, I assume. Sexist? I just belive that the media hype on U Conn women and the Tennessee coach that surpassed Dean Smith & Adolph Rupp in wins was over hyped, pure blatant political correctness. How dare anyone argue the relevant points, or nuts like you will play the sexist card.

You are the poster who repeatedly posted the President of the United States' middle name here in the past as if it were supposed to have some sort of negative attachment to it. (Do a search for Hussein in the search part of the forum). This is a pattern of insecurity and fear of change. There are lots of people who have that name in America who aren't ruthless dictators, just as their are lots of people with the name Smith or Jones in America who are killers.

In your time, SLU played in the MVC briefly, so that is what you know and prefer. That was a brief period many decades ago.

The UCLA streak, again, "your time period" many decades ago.

For some reason, you stopped changing with the world in the 1970's, 80's, 90's, 00's, 10's. A lot has changed in that time and many things for the better.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

You are the poster who repeatedly posted the President of the United States' middle name here in the past as if it were supposed to have some sort of negative attachment to it. (Do a search for Hussein in the search part of the forum). This is a pattern of insecurity and fear of change. There are lots of people who have that name in America who aren't ruthless dictators, just as their are lots of people with the name Smith or Jones in America who are killers.

In your time, SLU played in the MVC briefly, so that is what you know and prefer. That was a brief period many decades ago.

The UCLA streak, again, "your time period" many decades ago.

For some reason, you stopped changing with the world in the 1970's, 80's, 90's, 00's, 10's. A lot has changed in that time and many things for the better.

Many things have changed for the better. Womens basketball still sucks.

[kevinfootes]

Nope. You didn't like the sample size, of which with I was fine. I didn't change anything. And, once again, the point is still the same. Tiger plays vs Tiger not playing. Tiger plays well vs Tiger not playing well. It affects golf ratings double and triple. Golf gie hards might care about the likes of Phil Mickelson, Fred Couples and insert player here, but the masses don't. Woods changes golf ratings astronomically up and down.

First you tell me that the plan was to expand soccer park to 50k which was too big. Now you tell me the plan was to expand to 10-12k which was too small. And you've also thrown in a ...you may have misremembered. The league has not changed its position. Build new soccer specific stadiums. Expanding soccer park wasn't going to ccomplish that. Tearing everything down and building from scratch was the only option at that site.

If you're fine with a sample of 16, then you don't understand statistics. That's really neither here nor there.

Kindly show me a sentence where I stated that there was a plan to expand the soccer park to 50K. You'll have trouble with this one because it never happened. I first posted that there was a plan to expand the soccer park but MLS was looking at venues like the Meadowlands. I later posted that there was a plan to expand soccer park to a capacity of 10-12K. That's it.

I'm clearly making posts based on memories of newspaper articles that I read almost 20 years ago. I could easily be off on my numbers a bit. You are making posts with a great deal of certainty but posted no links. If you can show me a link to some early '90s statement that MLS was looking to build soccer specific venues I'll buy it. I can't really find anything before about 2000.

[MB73]

You are the poster who repeatedly posted the President of the United States' middle name here in the past as if it were supposed to have some sort of negative attachment to it. (Do a search for Hussein in the search part of the forum). This is a pattern of insecurity and fear of change. There are lots of people who have that name in America who aren't ruthless dictators, just as their are lots of people with the name Smith or Jones in America who are killers.

In your time, SLU played in the MVC briefly, so that is what you know and prefer. That was a brief period many decades ago.

The UCLA streak, again, "your time period" many decades ago.

For some reason, you stopped changing with the world in the 1970's, 80's, 90's, 00's, 10's. A lot has changed in that time and many things for the better.

You are a spinmaster deluxe, I will give you that, but you think you are smarter than you are, and most of us can see that you are full of crap.

RE: BHO, a majority of voters now know that there are issues with BHO...in way over his head... has no clue, just cramming his dangerous social agenda down our throats... this will be stopped, now. I was a pioneer, knew he was a phony all along. So I was a visionary. I saw it coming. You were one of the sheep.

RE: MVC, yes, I was in the MVC, and I still say that is the best situation for SLU (please, lets not start that argument again). When Majerus leaves, we will taper off into our usual mediocrity. I gotta laugh at the loons that keep thinking we should and will get into the Big East.

You keep attempting to label me as insecure and fearful of change. Drive the propaganda, label someone, maybe it will stick... OK, Sol. Those who know me well would laugh their ass off at your assinine statements. U Conn women winning is change? I fear that?

You sure read a lot into a post... what, did you take psychology in high school? Think you know your stuff. Dangerous. Let me guess, SLUH, DeSmet, or Chaminade. It is apparent with your arrogant, smug attitude toward many others on this board. Am I right? I took psychology in college.

[MB73]

Many things have changed for the better. Womens basketball still sucks.

Yep. Nobody watches it.

Marketing 101, Professor Bonwich. I paid attention in class. End of story.

[courtside]

Many things have changed for the better. Womens basketball still sucks.

Thanks for continuing to illustrate one of the points in this thread. You of course are in the smaller extreme group of outspoken negativity and hate for womens sports out of your own personal insecurity. However, you still illustrate the point overall of the average male only being interested in a sport at its highest level in its category. Men will watch NBA over WNBA. Men will watch major D-1 teams over lesser D-1 teams or women's college teams or D-II or DIII men.

A small but angry faction of male viewers are in your outspoken extreme category about it. But even the less negatively outspoken average male observer isn't as interested because of the level of competition. There is an anger and resentment by the extreme group that only sees things in an order of level of competition overall, as opposed to accepting the differences of male and female athletes and abilities and deciding their viewership based on other factors as well. Of course this all gets amplified due to increased media availability in today"s world as well.

Women also are supporting the men's sports more than women's sports too.

[jbizzle09]

You are a spinmaster deluxe, I will give you that, but you think you are smarter than you are, and most of us can see that you are full of crap.

RE; BHO, a majority of voters now know that there are issues with BHO...in way over his head... has no clue, just pushing his social agenda... I was a pioneer, knew he was a phony all along. So I was a visionary. I saw it coming. You were one of the sheep.RE: MVC, yes, I was in the MVC, and I still say that is the best situation for SLU (please, lets not start that argument again). When Majerus leaves, we will taper off into our usual mediocrity. I gotta laugh at the loons that keep thinking we will get into the Big East.

You keep attempting to label me as insecure and fearful of change. Drive the propaganda, label someone, maybe it will stick... OK, Sol. Those who know me well would laugh their ass off at your assinine statements. U Conn winning is change? I fear that???

You sure read a lot into a post... what, did you take psychology in high school? Think you know your stuff. Dangerous. Let me guess, SLUH, DeSmet, or Chaminade. It is apparent with your arrogant, smug attitude to others on this board. Am I right? I took psycholgy in college.

Wow, just wow, to this statement. Did you really call yourself a 'visionary' and 'pioneer'? Yet, you have the balls to call someone arrogant and smug. You are certainly a piece of work, MB73. Also, congrats on your psychology class.