Concerns for 2010-'11 season

[slufanskip]

Yes, at the PF spot if CE plays the three.

If RL isn't ready to play the 4 pretty quick CE will and we'll go with more of a 3 guard lineup. CR will not be a normal starter at the 4.

[slufanskip]

Good point. It is unfair for me to project CR and not the team. But I guess recruiting is different and I am saying based on CR's skill set and the school's recruiting him, he was our biggest steal as a recruit.

huh? I'm confused by what you mean by a steal.

What is CR's skill set that makes you think he may start at the 4? Remember RM likes a 4 who can step out and shoot. He didn't recruit RL to play behind CR and we won't play CR at the 4 with CE playing the 3 while CS, and MM both sit. If RL isn't ready early CE slides over to the 4 and CS or MM start at 2/3 alongside KC.

[NH]

If RL isn't ready to play the 4 pretty quick CE will and we'll go with more of a 3 guard lineup. CR will not be a normal starter at the 4.

Why not? CR is the best post defender on the team. He can be a good rebounder. He is apparently getting much stronger this offseason and has shown a great work ethic. And he finished the season very strongly. Loe will play, but I tend to think Majerus cannot afford to have Loe and Ellis out there at the same time since neither would be a great defender.

I dont think Ellis will be able to play the three, especially not right away, but if is, I bet CR will see some starts.

[NH]

huh? I'm confused by what you mean by a steal.

What is CR's skill set that makes you think he may start at the 4? Remember RM likes a 4 who can step out and shoot. He didn't recruit RL to play behind CR and we won't play CR at the 4 with CE playing the 3 while CS, and MM both sit. If RL isn't ready early CE slides over to the 4 and CS or MM start at 2/3 alongside KC.

CR was not very recruited but has the ability to be a very good player. He was underrated coming out of high school and RM recognized his talent. So he is a steal IMO.

Skill set for CR:

Big with good frame, good hands and feet. Best post defender on the team. Good shooting touch. Also has shown good work ethic.

Raw Offensively and not strong which is why he struggled some, but I think the coaching staff will help with both.

From what I have seen (very limited) RL will be a very good player for the Bills. He has a lot of nice tools but I think RM will go with defense at the start of the season especially.

[slufanskip]

Why not? CR is the best post defender on the team. He can be a good rebounder. He is apparently getting much stronger this offseason and has shown a great work ethic. And he finished the season very strongly. Loe will play, but I tend to think Majerus cannot afford to have Loe and Ellis out there at the same time since neither would be a great defender.

I dont think Ellis will be able to play the three, especially not right away, but if is, I bet CR will see some starts.

we're too deep at the guard for that. If CE can't play the 3 against certain teams he'll start at the 4. These starters are certain. WR, CE, KC, and KM. If RL can play early he will, if he needs more time CS or MM will start. If you start CR at the 4 who backs up WR? You're trying to outsmart yourself.

[slufanskip]

CR was not very recruited but has the ability to be a very good player. He was underrated coming out of high school and RM recognized his talent. So he is a steal IMO.

Skill set for CR:

Big with good frame, good hands and feet. Best post defender on the team. Good shooting touch. Also has shown good work ethic.

Raw Offensively and not strong which is why he struggled some, but I think the coaching staff will help with both.

From what I have seen (very limited) RL will be a very good player for the Bills. He has a lot of nice tools but I think RM will go with defense at the start of the season especially.

Good shooting touch? from where?

[NH]

Good shooting touch? from where?

Im not saying he is Dirk Nowitzki but I bet CR hit above 50% of his mid range (ten to twelve feet) jumpers. He didn't shoot it all that often but when he did he showed nice touch. Part of the reason I am so high on him is because he had such a good last game. 13 pts. and 7 boards vs. a good VCU front-line.

[NH]

we're too deep at the guard for that. If CE can't play the 3 against certain teams he'll start at the 4. These starters are certain. WR, CE, KC, and KM. If RL can play early he will, if he needs more time CS or MM will start. If you start CR at the 4 who backs up WR? You're trying to outsmart yourself.

I agree with your guaranteed starters assuming nothing strange happens. I wouldn't bet CR would start, but I think he is the dark horse.

IF CE plays the 3. I think the 4 will come down to RL and CR and I think especially early in the season, it might be CR. Make sense?

[slufanskip]

Im not saying he is Dirk Nowitzki but I bet CR hit above 50% of his mid range (ten to twelve feet) jumpers. He didn't shoot it all that often but when he did he showed nice touch. Part of the reason I am so high on him is because he had such a good last game. 13 pts. and 7 boards vs. a good VCU front-line.

He had a very nice game against VCU. He shot 41% from the field, there isn't a chance in hell he hit over 50% from 10 -12 feet. How much cash you got, I'll give you 2-1 odds on every cent you have and I hope it's a lot. Hell he shot 45% from the line, worse than Willie.

BTW did you say he was big? He's not tall for a D1 4 or 5, and he isn't big for a D1 4 or 5. He has zero, zilch, no game away from the basket or facing up.

[slufanskip]

I agree with your guaranteed starters assuming nothing strange happens. I wouldn't bet CR would start, but I think he is the dark horse.

IF CE plays the 3. I think the 4 will come down to RL and CR and I think especially early in the season, it might be CR. Make sense?

No, it doesn't he doesn't have the skill set RM looks for. If RL isn't ready early CE WILL play the 4 and we'll play 3 guards. Again, who backs up WR if CR starts at the 4? Maybe CR gets a start against some peon team, but even that would shock me.

[NH]

He had a very nice game against VCU. He shot 41% from the field, there isn't a chance in hell he hit over 50% from 10 -12 feet. How much cash you got, I'll give you 2-1 odds on every cent you have and I hope it's a lot. Hell he shot 45% from the line, worse than Willie.

BTW did you say he was big? He's not tall for a D1 4 or 5, and he isn't big for a D1 4 or 5. He has zero, zilch, no game away from the basket or facing up.

He is a legitimate 6'8". He didn't shoot too many of those short to mid range jumpers but when he did I guarantee you that he shot around 50%.

Like I said, he is very raw offensively, he scored 9 ppg in high school, but he has good skills and you cant teach defense like his.

For example, according to SLU's website, Cory shot 5 jumpers in the CBI (all I was willing to look up) and made 3 of them. In conference play he shot about the same percentage from the free throw line that CE did.

Also, he is at least a year younger than all of our returning players.

[NH]

No, it doesn't he doesn't have the skill set RM looks for. If RL isn't ready early CE WILL play the 4 and we'll play 3 guards. Again, who backs up WR if CR starts at the 4? Maybe CR gets a start against some peon team, but even that would shock me.

BC and RL back up WR. I know you will say they are not 5s but they did multiple times this year (back up willie that is).

What is the skill set that RM looks for in a big then? Good shooter and thats all? I think RM likes defense as well, or am I mistaken.

[slufanskip]

He is a legitimate 6'8". He didn't shoot too many of those short to mid range jumpers but when he did I guarantee you that he shot around 50%.

Like I said, he is very raw offensively, he scored 9 ppg in high school, but he has good skills and you cant teach defense like his.

For example, according to SLU's website, Cory shot 5 jumpers in the CBI (all I was willing to look up) and made 3 of them. In conference play he shot about the same percentage from the free throw line that CE did.

Also, he is at least a year younger than all of our returning players.

He took 70 shots all year and made 29. If he shot say 15 from 10-12 feet and made over half it means he shot 65 shots from inside 10 feet and made just 21 for 32%. So what you're saying is he shot over 50% from outside 10 feet and 32% from inside. Hell, I say we play him at the 3 and don't allow him in the paint.

[NH]

He took 70 shots all year and made 29. If he shot say 15 from 10-12 feet and made over half it means he shot 65 shots from inside 10 feet and made just 21 for 32%. So what you're saying is he shot over 50% from outside 10 feet and 32% from inside. Hell, I say we play him at the 3 and don't allow him in the paint.

I looked up his stats for every game in conference play and he was listed as shooting 60% on "jumper". Again, I didn't say he was an outstanding shooter, but I said he showed nice shooting touch. Cody shot 37%, but he is still a better shooter than Cory by far.

You have to take a lot of those stats with a grain of salt considering he was a 17 year old kid. It would be nice if we could get some other people to way in on this discussion as well.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I looked up his stats for every game in conference play and he was listed as shooting 60% on "jumper". Again, I didn't say he was an outstanding shooter, but I said he showed nice shooting touch. Cody shot 37%, but he is still a better shooter than Cory by far.

You have to take a lot of those stats with a grain of salt considering he was a 17 year old kid. It would be nice if we could get some other people to weigh in on this discussion as well.

I think certain players get type-cast. "Everyone" believes Roe Loe is destined for immediate stardom, and "no one" believes Corey Remekun will ever be more than a spot role player. People pick their favorites for whatever personal reasons and biases they have and just appreciate the others because there needs to be enough players for practice and an 8- or 9-man rotation or to insure against injuries or foul trouble. I don't see why CR can't outgrow the limited role he had last season (and I can't see why we have to put so much pressure on RL to be great when he's getting his first taste of D-I ball). Consider how Maurice Jeffers went from being "merely" a defensive specialist in '00 to being a star in '01 and getting drafted by the NBA.

[MB73]

I think certain players get type-cast. "Everyone" believes Roe Loe is destined for immediate stardom, and "no one" believes Corey Remekun will ever be more than a spot role player. People pick their favorites for whatever personal reasons and biases they have and just appreciate the others because there needs to be enough players for practice and an 8- or 9-man rotation or to insure against injuries or foul trouble. I don't see why CR can't outgrow the limited role he had last season (and I can't see why we have to put so much pressure on RL to be great when he's getting his first taste of D-I ball). Consider how Maurice Jeffers went from being "merely" a defensive specialist in '00 to being a star in '01 and getting drafted by the NBA.

RE: CR you really never know how these kids will develop, or not, I see him as a big factor on "D" and rebounding. We shall see about "O".

BUT I'll bet $$$ that RL starts... possibly even game # 1 ... but at least after 5-7 games into the season... then will start the majority of the season, and get major minutes on the front line. Major minutes.

He is not coming from NZ to sit.

[NH]

He is not coming from NZ to sit.

I see what you are saying but this is a pretty silly line. So, if the coaching staff told him he might not start freshman year he would have stayed in NZ?

[MB73]

I see what you are saying but this is a pretty silly line. So, if the coaching staff told him he might not start freshman year he would have stayed in NZ?

I think you are ready for ESPN... watch out, Katz, Bilas, Vitale.

[kshoe]

I looked up his stats for every game in conference play and he was listed as shooting 60% on "jumper". Again, I didn't say he was an outstanding shooter, but I said he showed nice shooting touch. Cody shot 37%, but he is still a better shooter than Cory by far.

You have to take a lot of those stats with a grain of salt considering he was a 17 year old kid. It would be nice if we could get some other people to way in on this discussion as well.

This thread is a classic example of over-exagerating to make a point. You've said CR is probably RM's biggest steal recruit, will shoot over 50% from 10-12 feet and will start on a very good team next year. This is a guy that averaged 2 points and 2 rebounds last year and only shot 42% from the field and 45% from FT land. Skip has probably exagerated some of his faults to make a point.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Will he be better next year? Absolutely. Will he be good enough to start ahead of WR, RL, CE or even BC? Highly doubtful. Fans always tend to remember the last performance so his great game against VCU is obviously clouding your judgement on what he will be able to contribute next year. You've also had a tendency in the past to undervalue the expected impact of the international guys so I suspect you are doing that with Loe.

CR has the potential to be a very good center for us eventually and it sounds like he is working his ass off in the offseason, but as long as Willie is on this team, its going to be very hard for him to get more than 20 minutes a game.

[doowop]

It'll be interesting to see what happens here. First of all, if the coaching staff has the chance to sign a kid they believe will be a contributor, then they'll probably take it, as long as they don't have a rising senior that they think they need to sign in November. As far as I know, Majok Majok hasn't made a decision yet. Who knows where we really stand with him. If they don't sign anyone soon, you would think they would give it back to Eckerle, though if they did that it might prohibit them from signing a transfer during the Christmas break. That could be a reason to let it sit for the semester.

While all info seems to be that Femi is done, nothing official has been reported. I'm not sure if that's the kind of thing about which the department would issue a release.

Maybe Noreen will commit. Can't pass on him if he does.

[NH]

This thread is a classic example of over-exagerating to make a point. You've said CR is probably RM's biggest steal recruit, will shoot over 50% from 10-12 feet and will start on a very good team next year. This is a guy that averaged 2 points and 2 rebounds last year and only shot 42% from the field and 45% from FT land. Skip has probably exagerated some of his faults to make a point.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Will he be better next year? Absolutely. Will he be good enough to start ahead of WR, RL, CE or even BC? Highly doubtful. Fans always tend to remember the last performance so his great game against VCU is obviously clouding your judgement on what he will be able to contribute next year. You've also had a tendency in the past to undervalue the expected impact of the international guys so I suspect you are doing that with Loe.

CR has the potential to be a very good center for us eventually and it sounds like he is working his ass off in the offseason, but as long as Willie is on this team, its going to be very hard for him to get more than 20 minutes a game.

Or is it a classic example of people reading what they want to read and then making judgements without fully understanding the post.

Did I say Cory would start? No

Did I say he would shoot over 50% from 10-12 feet next year? No

Did I say he was the DARK HORSE to start? Yes

Did I say I thought he shot above 50% from 10-12 feet THIS YEAR? Yes

I also said "I wouldn't bet on him starting". My point is that I think it is a possibility. Obviously, Skip disagrees.

[NH]

Maybe Noreen will commit. Can't pass on him if he does.

Not considering the Bills.

[NH]

You've also had a tendency in the past to undervalue the expected impact of the international guys so I suspect you are doing that with Loe.

Wouldn't a "tendency" constitute more than one occurrence? Give me a break.

I said CE would start out slow and would not start for a while. I was definitely wrong on that one, I'll admit it. I thought he would start weak and get stronger, when it was actually kind of the opposite.

However, I have also said that I thought CS would be the most ready to contribute freshman and would probably start. On that one I was correct.

So I guess because I didn't think CE would be as good as he was I have a tendency of undervaluing foreign players. If I said McCall would not start right away and might struggle at first and he didn't would that prove I have a tendency of undervaluing players from Illinois?

[kshoe]

Or is it a classic example of people reading what they want to read and then making judgements without fully understanding the post.

Did I say Cory would start? No

Did I say he would shoot over 50% from 10-12 feet next year? No

Did I say he was the DARK HORSE to start? Yes

Did I say I thought he shot above 50% from 10-12 feet THIS YEAR? Yes

I also said "I wouldn't bet on him starting". My point is that I think it is a possibility. Obviously, Skip disagrees.

Skip said: A starting spot this year? Explain?

You said: Yes, at the PF spot if CE plays the three.

Seems like you think he will start to me, because the chances of Cody playing the 3 next year are very good.

As for your arguments about Corey's outside shooting prowess; if you feel the need to point out that he shot over 50% from 10-12 feet (a stat I find very hard to believe given his overall FG % and his FT % and my own eyes from the games) it implies you think he will continue it in the future. If not, are you saying that CR will REGRESS as a shooter? I sure don't hope a guy averaging 2 ppg regresses in his outside shooting...

[NH]

Skip said: A starting spot this year? Explain?

You said: Yes, at the PF spot if CE plays the three.

Seems like you think he will start to me, because the chances of Cody playing the 3 next year are very good.

As for your arguments about Corey's outside shooting prowess; if you feel the need to point out that he shot over 50% from 10-12 feet (a stat I find very hard to believe given his overall FG % and his FT % and my own eyes from the games) it implies you think he will continue it in the future. If not, are you saying that CR will REGRESS as a shooter? I sure don't hope a guy averaging 2 ppg regresses in his outside shooting...

I said: He is a dark horse for a starting spot in my opinion

Skip said: A starting spot this year? Explain?

You said: Yes, at the PF spot if CE plays the three.

So I think the Dark Horse part is implied in all of those.

I merely used the stat to say he has nice "shooting touch" not to say he was a good shooter. The sample size was 3-5 (conference play and CBI only) so obviously that stat doesnt prove much. With more attempts, I think the percentage would come down some. Jon Smith shot 58% from the field. If he took a lot more shots and shot 50% would that mean he regressed? Not necessarily.