Rotation

[Kahok]

Now that we have had a couple of days to Digest the Ole Miss win, and I am keeping in mind that Ole Miss will be a bottom feeder in the SEC. My thoughts on the line ups used by Brad run this way. If we are going to use TL at the point then the 3 should be Danny. However I still think that TL should be at the 3 spot and Polk should be running the point. Danny doesn't play enough minutes to really be consistent and get into the flow of the game. TL is still turnover prone at the point and his moves would allow his game to flourish at the 3. Polk is a good ball handler but makes a terrible 3 because of his size. I have no problem with KL at the 2 spot or with LM at the 4 spot, but I think that if we are to continue to use TL at the point then Brown needs to be in there. To me the best line up is still Polk at the point and TL at the 3 spot with Danny subbing at the 2 or 3.

[cheeseman]

From what I have seen at the games, there is no one who is technically designated as the PG - you see Polk and Kevin bringing the ball up often so basically those three are interchangeable. Look at the assist total for the 3 they are very similar. The only game of recent that I saw that Tommie had TO problems was the SMS game. He was fine against MS and for the most part he gets tagged with a TO if the guy who he passes it to can not handle it such as we saw with Bryce this past game. I do admit that he can be a little cavalier with the ball but that might simply be his style. He is our best passer and shot creator. At this point if Brad wants him to be the PG then I can live with it simply because Kevin and Polk handle the ball about as much.

[SLUDrew]

He is by the far the best creator and distributor on the team. Teams are going to continue to zone us until we can become consistent from the outside. Tommie is the best at forcing the zone to collapse on him and distributing out of it, although I wish he would do it more.

By the way, I think it is a little odd to say Danny Brown needs more minutes at the same time saying Tommie is turnover prone. Danny Brown is a turnover waiting to happen whenever he steps on the floor. I agree that there is ability there and maybe he just needs some more confidence, but he has to earn his minutes.

[Kahok]

No disagreement on Tommie being the best dribble, drive and kick, but if you are going to use him that way instead of coming off the wing then you have to have someone that can shoot the three's, Polk is not that person.

[billiken_roy]

kahok i agree that polk hasnt exactly tore up the three point line since coming to slu, however there is no denying that he is finally approaching respectability there now.

what polk does provide is a steady effort on defense, he is good at bringing it down the floor or filling a lane on the break, especially since we have turned up the tempo this year.

in a best case scenario we would have polk with dustin maguire shooting for him.

i too think liddell has to be the main point guard. he drives me nuts on occasion with his lackadasical play and bad turnovers, but then on that occasion where he beats him man on the dribble and drives the lane, you realize what he brings to the team from the point.

[Kahok]

Roy I agree with you about Liddell, but with Polk playing the off guard especially when you have a bigger quick guard on Tommie, you will also have more double teams coming because they can cheat off of Polk, he is not going to kill anyone from three point range. And he will not shoot you back into the game with dishes from Liddell.

[billiken_roy]

kahok your point really is that we are hurting that we dont have a second lischtype player for the wing. it is too bad that danny brown hasnt progressed this year as much as dwayne polk or that maguire isnt more as a rookie than what he is so far. in a couple of years maguire is going to be that player. too bad he isnt yet.

unfortunately we are dealt the hand we got. you dont like that polk cant hit the three, i say i'd rather have tommie be able to initiate the offense because he indeed can get to the rim from the head of the key in the half court game, and we all know that polk cant.

polk leading the break is fine. he has shown this year he is much much improved on the break. but if we get stopped, imo, i want the ball in tommie or kevin's hands first.

[pompeytir]

-I agree that Liddell is the best guard for dribble-drives and kick outs but he is NOT a point guard. However, he doesn't find the 'open' man in transition which is maybe one of the reasons why the transition offense has stalled. And his handle is not up to snuff at this point, he really struggles against pressure D (as does the whole team so far). He just is not an offensive facilitator like Spencer Laurie was/is for Mizzou St. That's what I'm looking for in a PG, someone who helps put his teammates in better position to score. Right now the only way Tommie does that is when he's driving to the basket. I just don't see the court vision at this point. He's definetly a SG in my book and a blue chip one at that.

-The offense looked much better in the 2nd half of the Ole Miss game becuase Tommy wasn't monopolizing the ball (I don't think he had more than 1 shot in the 2nd half before the dunk).

-At the next home game...Watch Tommy bring up the ball and dribble for 10-12 seconds before he makes a decision on what to do with the basketball. With him off the ball, teams have to be aware of his jumpshot and also any pass that allows him to drive to the basket. Can Tommy post up? I'd like to find out. It makes him a better scorer, something this team needs more of, and might indirectly free up Lisch for more open shots.

-I like Lisch running the transition show because he's fearless on the dribble drive and he has 'court vision'. I can't wait for the day that this team hits an 'slightly' open wing on a break and they score on a layup. How many times has Tommy or Polk brought the ball down and just dribbled up the court without hitting an open win. It drives me crazy.

-Polk seems like a rocket on the break with the ball in his hand, he facilitiates the basketball consistently well in the half court but occassionaly butchers an entry pass to the post. He has to stay on the court for his defense and continue to improve his shot.

[SLUDrew]

I am assuming you saw him play some in high school. In your assessment, can he be a starting 2/3 on this team in a couple years? I ask because from what we have seen he certainly doesn't seem to have a devastating outside shot. I know he is a freshmen and I could understand his shot being a little off from lack of playing, nerves, etc, but a shooter is a shooter. Its not that he has missed nearly all of his shots, but that his rotation and arc weren't exactly pretty. At the Shootout I talked to some people who were basketball fans on the Ill side of the river and they said that Maguire should not be at SLU. They said he was a nice high school player but would be better served at a D-II program.

What do you think?

[NashvilleBilliken]

I'm guessing that as conference play starts up, we are going to see a lot more of DM. Coach has made a few comments about his progress as well as some comments on his concern over our lack of depth. I'm guessing DM sees some quality minutes against the weaker teams in conference. I'm hopeful he'll be producing 5-7 mpg by the end of the year.

[pompeytir]

I saw Maguire in High School too. He's changed his shot from High school to get a quicker release. His shot looks more like a flick now vs. what it was in high school, a solid jump shot but a slow release. I think in the long run it is an improvement. His foot speed is a question and his handle is non existstent but UB has to develop the bench and find a cosistent shooter off the bench. Although I'm not a big fan of Maguire, I would like to Danny Brown's minutes given to him. I have no doubt his FG% would be over 40% and his defense can't be any worse. Maybe those 2-5 minute lulls where they can't find the basket would end if someone off the bench can shoot consistently.

[billiken_roy]

i was a very big doubter of maguire from watching him in high school. i didnt think he could play defense as a guard. however, that said, he is far better imo than i thought and yes i think he can be a wing for us.

i disagree with your assessment of his shot. i watch him shoot in warmups and that shot is nice. he probably just needs a little success and they will start dropping. i am betting he isnt playing more simply because he cant play defense as well as liddell, lisch, polk, and brown. but that doesnt mean he cant close that gap at some point.

when people make that d-2 reference that is ignorant. remind those folks that make that statement that there are about 340 teams in d-1 and to make that statement means that maguire couldnt sit at the end of the bench for sacramento state or northern colorado or denver university.

maguire was more than a nice high school player. he was at worst the second best player on a team that made it to the illinois large school state tourney last year and now looking back, it is playing out of position as well as he should have been a wing for them.

[billiken_roy]

i bet if we ever faced a team playing a straight zone on us that had a third guard playing or a small forward that werent overly physical or strong slashers that maguire will play and would be a difference maker.

imo, maguire needs to work on his footwork to enhance his defense and then work on more than shooting the ball offensively.

you all need to think back to luke meyer as a freshman offensively and then think of luke meyer today.

[cheeseman]

Polk is avg. about 9 pts a game so his scoring has really picked up. He is not a dead eye but he can hit a jumper or even a 3pt now and then - unlike last year when it would be games before he buried a perimeter shot. I agree with Roy about Dustin - I have watched him shoot and think he gets the ball of quick and it looks nice. He simply needs more minutes. Those who think that a shooter can score anytime are wrong - a shooter needs his minutes to get a flow and feel for the rim. Playing a couple of minutes at a time is a waste. Brad has to figure out how to get him extended minutes for his shot to fall. The problem Brad has is his bench is so weak that when he said he wants to increase his rotation all he can do is put in Bryce and that does nothing. Brad has to start using Dustin - he already knows what Bryce can/can not do, the same with JJ. He is still learning about Adam but he really does not know much about Dustin - I am referencing from game minutes for both - he knows what they can and can not do in practice.

[SLUDrew]

I was referring to the shots I have seen him take during the game. Like I said, I know he is a freshmen so he deserves some slack. I think when people say he isn't D-1, they are referring to high level D-I. When you think D-I you don't think of Savannah St or Grambling. I understand what you are saying about the fact that he could play at Denver, but my question was whether or not he could play at SLU and start at SLU. You seem to think definitely so. Thanks for your assessment.

[billiken_roy]

they should say high level d-1 then. d-2 is what it is and the very best of d-2 would have trouble competing at the lowest level of d-1. look at our last 2 games with umsl. and this year quincy is supposed to be a very top tier d-2 team.

as to dustin looking good in warmups vs games, unfortunately all we have to compare for the last month is warmups and i have to believe that the dustin maguire we saw a month and a half ago is not as good as the one that we have now.

[billiken_roy]

that our bench is "so weak". i think our bench is just leaps and bounds behind the likes of ian, tommie and kevin and thus it is hard to find the minutes.

i would take this bench over what we had in soderberg's first year as head coach.

what we need are a few blowouts to get the minutes unfortunately we cant put two halves together.

[cheeseman]

Roy, I understand your point but if your bench is not good enough to provide quality minutes when they are in then it is not very strong.

[slufanskip]

Everyone who saw him play the wing during AAU ball came away impressed, I don't remember one person saying he shouldn't be at SLU based upon hus AAU play. Get Guest's opinion.

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[moytoy12]

"i'm not so sure" that our bench is "so weak". i think our bench is just leaps and bounds behind the likes of ian, tommie and kevin and thus it is hard to find the minutes."

Puh-tay-toe

Puh-tah-toe

Don't you consider a bench that is "leaps and bounds" behind the likes of ian, tommie and kevin...um...weak? I enjoy watching ian, tommie and kevin, and they are good players, but we're not talking sure-fire NBA'ers here (at this point).

And i definitely don't think this bench has the depth that you proclaimed a couple of weeks ago.

[Billikan]

I think he is playing better in practice and he looks better on his shot. His confidence seems to be building and I would expect to see him get some minutes by the end of the year. I personally think the D2 comment is a slam that is totally undeserved. But, of course, you are not negative!

[SLUDrew]

A couple guys I was talking to at the Shootout said that of Maguire. My post was completely innocent. I was asking Roy for his opinion of Maguire since I knew he saw him play in high school.