StLouBlue Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I have read the article about SLU & Charlotte maybe being invited to the A-10 after the Big East makes it decision. Also Marquette and DePaul could be invited to the A-10 if the Big East doesn't invite. My question is have Xavier, Dayton, SLU, Charlotte, Marquette and DePaul talked about forming the base of a new conference? I understand that Marquette and DePaul(as well as Xavier and Dayton) will want to hear from the Big East before making any commitments. But if the Big East only adds two for FB/BB, I think it makes more sense to start a new league with all these schools that have been looking elsewhere. A new conference with these schools would have a solid mid-western base and wouldn't have any weak schools like Fordham or Duquesne to try and dump. To me the A-10 is a step above the MVC, but not a very big step. And when you consider the fact that traveling, as a fan, to any of the cities besides Dayton and Xavier is a plane trip--I am not excited about joining the A-10, there would be little chance of forming any kind of real rivalry with the east coast teams. If the choice to me was the A-10 or the MVC, I would have to really think about it. I see the MVC as a league that is improving as a whole with a very good core of coaches. I would hope SLU, Charlotte, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier, and Dayton have at least discussed the possibility of starting a new league, to me that would be the best option. I would think SLU would have to look at the MVC as well as the A-10, if joining an existing conference becomes the reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 here are the schools you are talking about. i have noted the rpi of each team from last season. as you can see the proposed a-10 only has two schools over a 100 rpi, the mvc only has two schools under 100. my gosh there is no comparison. the mvc sucks. st louis 59 marquette 7 depaul 63 dayton 16 xavier 20 charlotte 96 umass 212 temple 91 rhode island 87 george washington 165 richmond 95 st joseph's 34 creighton 25 siu 38 witchita state 125 illinois state 223 bradley 195 drake 264 evansville 153 northern iowa 245 sms 118 indiana state 261 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 A more midwestern league might be better than a revamped A-10. The lynchpin though of any midwest catholic conference would have to be Xavier, and they have made it clear that they want and need to have an east coast presence for their recruiting. I don't think they would go to a league where they would be most eastern team. Mo Valley is the best mid major conference but there really is no comparing the A-10 and Mo Valley, even without the CUSA 4 the A-10 is a superior conference. With the CUSA 4 the A-10 becomes a top 6 conference. I disagree on the rivalries as well. We can still have our traditional local rivalries with SMS, SIUC and hopefully Mizzou and sometimes Illinois, but I would love to see Temple, UMASS, St. Joes etc come to town. They have much greater appeal than USF, ECU, TCU, Houston, Tulane etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobile-iken Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Creighton and SIU are nice programs, yes, that's all nice and they are the best the MVC has to offer. In both national recognition and reputation Temple, Xavier, and Dayton blow away Creighton and SIU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 UMass may have fallen on tough times the last few years, but they were one of the best programs in the country during the early and mid 90's. I will always remember the sold out game the first season at the Kiel when they had Camby and Roe (Camby didn't play because he was sick). UMass could be a real good program again in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 I think you missed my main point, which was are these teams talking about forming a conference? A conference of SLU, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier, Dayton and Charlotte would be a very good conference plus whatever other 2 teams are invited. This is what I would like to see. As far as comparing the MVC and the A-10, I know the A-10 right now is the better conference. The question is by how much is the A-10 a better conference. The last 5 seasons the A-10 has sent 13 schools to the NCAAs, the MVC has sent 11. The A-10 is generally ranked around the 9th best conference. The MVC is around the 12th. The MVC had a down year as a league last year, but like I said I see the league improving in the near future. I don't follow the A-10 very much so I don't know what to expect in the future, other than Dayton being a power since Gregory is now their coach. An interesting thing I also found was attendence wise the A-10 and MVC are right next to each other for overall conference attendence but when you look into the numbers only 2 A-10 schools averaged over 6,000 last year--Xavier at 10,178 and Dayton at 12,266, next was St Bonn. at 5793. The MVC had 7 of its 10 teams average over 6,000. To me this just shows how Xavier and Dayton just don't fit in the A-10--they averaged almost twice as many fans per game than the other schools in the league. Just another reason those two schools should look to the CUSA schools and form a new league rather than the CUSA schools going to the A-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I agree a new conference would be best ... with the 2 A-10 schools and the four CUSA schools ... who else would you try to add ... if Xavier wants an east coast presence maybe UMASS and someone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 It is much easier just to join the A-10. If they drop 2 or 3 weak links which they have suggested they will do they will be just as good as any other conference we could make up. The A-10 is already established, has a tv contract, we would have to start all over with a new conference and how much better would we be? Who else would we add for this midwest conference? SLU Xavier DePaul Dayton Marquette Charlotte Who else Creighton, Butler, a couple East coast teams, maybe St. Joes, Temple. I don't see how that can be a better league than a revamped A-10 SLU Charlotte Xavier Dayton DePaul Marquette UMass Temple Richmond St. Joes St. Bonaventure Rhode Island George Washington Besides not so much travel a league like this with two divisions would be better than a midwest league. Who knows if some more teams fall off or don't make the cut, other schools could be added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 billiken law told us a few weeks ago that marquette craves that east coast connection. thus, maybe this move was the compromise to any kind of a midwest league. a two division a-10 with a midwest division. still allows that east coast connection but will help ease travel costs with the two divisions. i think it makes a hell of a lot of sense and i wouldnt mind it if it meant we got to stay with depaul and marquette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 You are right UMass will be better. They have some chemistry problems and budget problems (both from state budget cuts that led to athletic department slashes and the yearly losses from an on-campus arena). Last year UMass was rife with internal dissent (they have had 5 players leave in the last year and a half). Part of that is a new coach and philosophy (Lappas), part of that is unreal expectations on the players (Pugh left because he thought he could go big time--ended up at Sacramento State; Lasme left because he thinks he can go pro some day--he went to Colorado I think; others left and ended up at Delaware and D-2). The point it is the team had some chemistry problems and while Lappas is not the greatest game coach he does recruit pretty well so UMass keeps getting players. They could gel and be quite good. My problem in evaluating them is that they look good when I go--usually one game a year but last year I was at their only good win all year, beating an overated but then ranked 21st NC State Wolfpack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Let us remember two things about the A-10 interest: 1) Options are good. While it is debatable to what extent the A-10 interest is (and personally it would be a boon to go to see SLU on the road), let us not forget that having an option (that SLU may want to decline) is good for bargaining no matter what they decide. 2) Nothing has happened. The A-10 has not kicked anyone out and it may be difficult to do so. The quote from the Cincy Enquirer only said that some teams have hurt the A-10, it did not say they were going to kick anyone out (although there were other reports of this elsewhere). Rhode Island will be better over the next few years too (likely that St. Joes would fall back a bit as well as St. Bona but these things go in cycles). The A-10 is not a bad conference and may be the best of a less than ideal situation but the economics of conference entry and exit as well as the uncertainty of conference formation make some of the more "ideal" situations economically doable but unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 If you could get: SLU Xavier DePaul Dayton Marquette Charlotte the who else doesn't really matter. I would guess most private basketball first schools would consider joining this league. You would not have the baggage of the A-10 schools like Richmond, St Bonny, Rhode Island, GW(sorry SLUSignGuy), Fordham, Duquense & LaSalle. Maybe baggage is too harsh, but none of these schools have a real history with SLU and I don't think we belong in a small school east coast league. From the article above, it also sounds like they will only drop teams if they end up adding 4 teams. If two are added, SLU & Charlotte, then dropping teams didn't sound like it would happen. Again this is all pure speculation, I only want to know if forming a new league is at least being considered. Since all four schools have hired Dempsey to consult them on all of the conference goings on, I would hope at some point this has been brought up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 I agree with your points, I would much rather have a invite on the table from the A-10, than be left out in the cold searching for a conference or looking at going independent. My point is there are 6 similar schools that are waiting to see who the Big East will invite. These 6 schools would form a great base for a new league, especially if the Big East doesn't take any of them. The other leagues they may join or already a member of have some problems, the MVC, A-10, CUSA and Horizon. I think looking at this the best solution is to start your own league with these 6 as your base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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