Sheltiedave Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Having followed Illinois basketball for longer than the Billikens by a couple years, I would politely say that Pearl is the lowest piece of sheet I would ever have the displeasure to meet. When you look at the violations, Illinois was nailed to the cross for the appearence of impropriety, and because their football coach was quite the sleazebag. Lou Hensen to this day remains a gentleman of honor, and I will agree to disagree with anyone who feels different. He recruited five Richwoods players(and a few Manual, Central, and other Mid State 9 players) while I attended Richwoods and Saint Louis U., and the coaches who cried foul were the very coaches stealing players from under Illinois at Chicago, Quad Cities, and Peoria - namely, Indiana, Notre Dame, Iowa, and DePaul. Coach Meyer at DePaul always said Lou was a gentleman, and that it was a ***** to recruit against Jimmy Collins, but he was a great recruiter. The scandal that Pearl created killed Illinois directly after their Flying Illini season, and shuttered their program out of the top 20 when they would have been a top 5 program for the next five years. Illinois fans are rightfully bitter, and Pearl deservedly was blackballed to low level coaching hell for a good portion of his professional career. That being said, he is a good coach, and I hope Illinois beats UWM by fifty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 ....I understand what you are saying...but on the other hand...if Pearl is the "lowest piece of ###### you have ever had the displeasure of meeting...then you indeed have been fortunate in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Courtside, out of curiousity, why do you have a negative position on Hensen/Collins/Illinois in the Deon Thomas fiasco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Not sure I understand your question Dave? I think all parties were at fault in different ways... ...lowest scum of the earth of anyone ever met....etc...to me I guess is a bit too strong. My comment was meant to mean...there are a lot Worse people out there. My thoughts...well...I understand all sides.... I think Pearl made a mistake in his late 20's....I think he has paid his dues and debt after all of this time. I think it is time to move on. I feel strongly also about the Don Denkinger umpire saga. What did Pearl actually do...well, he set up a kid, recruit and got him to say U of I gave him improper stuff...he broke a fraternity code in the business...and I am not defending him for it...I have also done my homework on Pearl a little bit...and he really answers the test in a lot of other aspects in life that are tough to ignore...sure I think he is in the slick salesman category of hoops coaches....but big deal... He gets introduced, U of I fans boo...and it should be over....anything more than that, I guess I just don't understand. Getting another chance is the lesson here. Pearl depending on who you are and what you think...made a mistake, perhaps big, intentionally, and was punished for it(9 long years in D II ball) just to get a UWM job...which is a DI version of UMSL for more years... I think what hurst Pearl is the chip on his shoulder which he readily admits...kind of like TLR. He could serve himself better by saying a few things different and it could go away more easily for him. But he doesn't. To me, that is just ego, stubborn....etc... Murderers, rapists, etc....don't get nor deserve second chances in life...by all acconts he has been squeaky clean and well liked on and off the floor for a long time.... time to just talk about the 1-2-1-1 and Ed McCants and Joah Tucker....and the team ball UWM plays, etc.... time to turn the page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 personally, i will never forgive denkinger. imo, he cost the greatest manager in the history of baseball his spot in the hall of fame as it seems you dont get in as a manager unless you win the world series at least twice. for that, i hate denkinger and will forever hate denkinger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Courtside, I wouldn't have a problem if Pearl said he made a mistake of judgement, and moved on. He presents himself as a wronged man, when his actions show malice and criminal intent. A little further investigation would find the $5,000 he paid Deon's best friend to act as an agent for Iowa's interests. His very cozy relationship and numerous phone calls with the two lead NCAA investigators also create some doubt on the NCAA impartiality in this case, as these phone calls occurred BEFORE the investigation started. The long and short of it is the NCAA made Illinois basketball program pay for the misdeeds done by the ILLinois football program. I get riled because Mizzou has conspired to recruit atheletes who are not students(Clemmons and Pulley,) and Michigan literally bought players from the same era, and yet Illinois was hung out to dry based on material lies by Pearl and others. Pearl was a liar 15 years ago, and he is still lieing about the past. A great coach for his players, but I would never allow him to be hired in any capacity at Saint Louis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Dave, do you think Lou Henson ran a clean program at Illinois? How do you think Bobby Knight would have rated Henson's program......clean or dirty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 I think Lou and Norm were cut from the same cloth - gentlemen. I suspect that a lot happens with street agents outside the purview of the top guy. I think perhaps Henson and Collins liked and respected each other, but there may have been gaps in their communication - Collins walked the walk and talked the talk in Chicago. Henson couldn't have done that. I've met Henson personally a few times - he took up bridge when he first retired from IL - and he didn't come across as a clever "I know more than I'm telling" guy to me - just a straight shooter. He gets a pass with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGB91 Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 Does anyone else remember "suitcase" Tony Yates"? He was Henson's bag man before Collins. Yates went to Cincinnati as their head coach and failed. The high priced talent he bought at Illinois was better than the mercenaries he bought at Cincinnati. Henson obviously was a better shopper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 I've been digging a little bit, and came up with the Bruce Pearl internal memo to Coach Tom Davis that was written BEFORE they "blew the whistle" and officially contacted the NCAA abouted reputed Illinois violations. Keep in mind that Renaldo Kyles was paid over $5000 to be an agent for Iowa via Bruce Pearl, and you may get a better feel for some of what went down in the case... Bruce Pearl December 8, 1988 It was during a one hour conversation to Simeon basketball recruit Deon Thomas that I first became aware of any NCAA rules violations being committed by the University of Illinois. Deon told me that Assistant Basketball Coach, Jimmy Collins, offered him and his grandmother, Bernice McGary, the opportunity to move to a nicer building or apartment. They would finance the move and take care of the additional expense of a more comfortable place. According to Deon, he told Jimmy Collins that his grandmother did not want to move. Jimmy then offered to have her place at 1837 W. Washburn fixed up so it would be nicer and most importantly, more secure. Deon would then be able to leave his grandmother in Chicago, attend the University of Illinois in Champaign and not worry about her well being. Taking care of his grandmother was very important to Deon. He loves his grandmother very much. She has taken care of him for the last several years when no one else would. I asked Deon how he felt about the offer and also why he was telling me. He said that at first he was insulted. He prides himself on being honest and religious. However, the idea of helping his grandmother very much appealed to him. I asked him if he would rather go to the University of Illinois and have his grandmother’s place fixed up by them or come to the University of Iowa and fix it up himself. He asked for some clarification. I told him that if he came to Iowa, we would make sure he had a good summer job, from both the financial, as well as the experience side of things. He would then little by little send her some money to make home improvements. He was talking about food, clothing, house paint and roof shingles. We both decided at the time it would be better if he earned the money himself rater than having it given to him. Deon was dead set against being bought. He indicated to me that he didn’t want to have a reputation like Marcus Liberty. I asked what that meant, and he answered $75,000 and a car. As far as why Deon confided in me, I think there are a couple of explanations. 1. Deon has been telling me over the phone since his sophomore year he wanted to be a Hawkeye. 2. I think Deon wanted to hear what I was willing to offer in the way of helping his grandmother that was his only financial concern. He seemed satisfied he could get the job done with good summer employment. 3. I had talked to Deon on a couple of occasions about illegal recruiting tactics. I instilled in his mind that he could get in as much trouble as the school who was cheating. As soon as I hung up the phone with Deon, I called Coach Davis at his home and informed him. He told me to write this down and keep a record of everything. This conversation was the first of a four month dialogue outlining and detailing recruiting violations by the University of Illinois. February 1, 1989 Without question the most serious of all NCAA violations committed by the University of Illinois took place on the weekend of January 28 in Champaign. To my knowledge, this was Deon’s third visit to the Illinois campus since the fall of his senior year. He attended the Illinois/Washington State football game on Saturday, September 3 and one other I’m not sure on. In both cases he spent the weekend with Illinois players and provided his own transportation through former high school teammates Ervin Small and Nick Anderson. His third weekend visit wa to the Illinois/Indiana basketball game. I believe this was his official visit, but I am not certain. He may have gone down again on his own. On Wednesday evening, February 1, Deon told me over the phone that a member of the University of Illinois coaching staff offered him $80,000 and a brand new Blazer if he would sign their letter of intent to attend the University of Illinois. He said the offer took place during this weekend visit. The only other details Deon offered was that it was the most Illinois had ever offered to pay for a recruit’s signature. Marcus Liberty had been offered only $75,000 and a new car when he decided to choose Illinois at the last minute over Syracuse. I didn’t understand Deon as to exactly where this offer took place but he did indicate it was a one on one conversation. I could tell he was not comfortable telling me exactly who made the offer so I asked him this question -- "You mean Coach Henson took you aside and offered you $80,000 to play for him?" Deon responded, "It wasn’t Lou, it was his boy." I asked who he was referring to and he said Jimmy. I asked Deon if he thought Coach Henson knew about it and he said he would have to know. Over a period of three months, February through April, many people became aware of the offer. Some of these people include: Everett and Joanna Johnson -- stepfather and mother Bernice McNary -- grandmother Latisha Scott (senior at Julian H.S.) -- girlfriend Avery Stallings, Antoine Johnson, Jackie Crawford and others -- teammates Renaldo Kyles -- best friend Deon told me and all these people about the illegal recruiting tactics of Illinois because up until one week before the signing period, he had no interest in attending Illinois. He was both amazed and turned off by the offer to buy his services. At the time this action by Illinois made him feel even stronger about coming to play for us at Iowa. With the exception of his girlfriend, Latisha Scott, I have personally had conversations with each and every one of these people regarding the $80,000 and a Blazer. At the conclusion of this February conversation, I again made Coach Davis aware of the situation. February 19, 1989 According to Deon, Jimmy Collins shook hands with him after the East St. Louis game and visited for a brief period of time. I was not present. February 28, 1989 According to Deon’s best friend, Renaldo Kyles, Jimmy Collins visited Deon at his grandmother’s house on February 28 some time after 8:00 p.m. This was during a non-contact period. According to Renaldo, Antoine Johnson, one of Deon’s teammates, was also at the house and should be able to verify this illegal contact. According to Renaldo, Deon told him that Jimmy gave Deon $300 on this date. March 9, 1989 After Simeon’s semi-final city championship victory over Dunbar at the UIC Pavilion, I witness Illinois Assistant Basketball Coach, Jimmy Collins, along with two of his players, Nick Anderson and Ervin Small, talking to Deon after the game outside the locker room door. Jimmy was present during the conversation for several minutes before leaving his players and Deon alone. Current Illinois basketball players, and former Simeon stars Nick Anderson and Ervin Small, were in attendance for at least five Simeon basketball games and made several school visits with the intent of recruiting Deon to Illinois. I realize this is not a violation of NCAA rules, but due to the number of contacts and the reasoning behind the visits, it does prompt one to ask the question "when exactly are these players in class?" On March 13, 1989, I had a serioes of conversation regarding Jimmy Collins’ illegal contact of March 9. Deon was upset with Jimmy because according to Deon, one March 6th or 7th he told Jimmy in a phone conversation that he was not interested in attending the University of Illinois. Deon said nothing about where he wanted to go, but Coach Collins must have assumed it was Iowa. On Wednesday morning, March 9, the day of the city semi-finals at the UIC Pavilion, Taylor Bell reported that Deon told Jimmy he was going to Iowa. According to Deon, Jimmy pressed the issue of where he was going hard and asked Deon not to give him the run-around. He asked Deon to tell him straight so he could start recruiting another Big Man. Deon, being a long time friend of Coach Collins, obliged. When the Sun Times reported the conversation, Deon was very unhappy with Illinois and Jimmy in particular, for violating his confidence. From that moment forward, however, the University of Iowa’s recruitment of Deon Thomas went down hill so to speak. Our good relationship with Deon’s high school coach, Bob Hambric, went completely sour to the point where Coach Hambric made me and the public immediately aware that he did not want Deon to go to the University of Iowa. He pulled me and Jimmy Collins aside at the UIC Pavilion on Thursday, March 9, and told us he was going to do everything he could to prevent Deon from going to either school because of the Sun Times article and what he perceived to be a complete circumvention of his authority. April 4, 1989 Despite the difficulties we were experiencing with Bob Hambric and the pressures Deon was receiving to play at Illinois from the people in the State, Deon was still verbally committed to us. On April 4 he arrived home from a two week trip to Amsterdam. His mother, Joanna Johnson, picked him up at the O’Hare Airport and asked what his collegiate plans were. He told her that he was visiting the University of Iowa campus on April 7, 8 and 9 and signing a National Letter of Intent with the University of Iowa on April 12. We made arrangements for Deon and his parents to visit campus that weekend. Deon’s commitment to Iowa at this moment in time could be confirmed by more than 20 people. What took place between April 4 and 7 changed all this. April 6, 1989 Jimmy Collins made a morning visit with Deon at Simeon High School. Just after noon, Nick Anderson came into school and visited with Deon, one on one, for over an hour. Deon told me, in person on April 7, that the gist of Nick’s conversation was that Illinois could take better care of him and his grandmother than Iowa could. April 7, 1989 Lou Henson made a morning visit with Deon at Simeon High School and went to lunch at noon with Coach Bob Hambric. This is two school contacts within the same week and a violation of NCAA rules. It was, however, worth the risk of being caught because Deon changed his mind about Illinois and never visited the University of Iowa campus. April 23, 1989 Deon returned home from the McDonald’s All-American game and notified me that he had signed with the University of Illinois on April 18. He said his grandmother was the reason he chose Illinois over Iowa. He also told me that his girlfriend, Latisha Scott, a senior at Julian High School, was going to be accepted at Illinois after earlier receiving word she was denied admission. This was something Jimmy Collins was going to be able to do, along with getting them an apartment to live in. April 24, 1989 According to Renaldo Kyles, Deon received $5,000 of the now promised $85,000 from Jimmy Collins either the evening of April 23 or the morning of April 24. Jimmy delivered the money personally. On April 24, Deon and his girlfriend, Latisha Scott, went to the Evergreen Plaza and went shopping. They made purchases at Carson Prairie[sic] Scott, Footlocker Shoes, with the most extravagant being a $400 gold rope bracelet at Reflections Jewelers. He put the bracelet on lay-away with the balance due on April 26. April 25, 1989 According to Renaldo, Deon gave him $50. He was also taking teammates out to lunch and sparing no expense with his girlfriend. May 5, 1989 Latisha Scott’s father rented a Budget car for Deon to take to the University of Illinois for the weekend. Deon paid for the car upon his return on May 8 with cash. On Friday, May 5, Deon rented a room at the Zanzibar Hotel, 81st and Stoney Island. On Saturday, May 6, Deon rented a room at the Days Inn in Champaign. It is possible the payment was taken care of by Jimmy Collins, but I am not sure. Deon was accompanied by teammates Antione Johnson and Avery Stallings, along with his girlfriend, Latisha Scott. May 12, 1989 Deon again rented a room at the Zanzibar Hotel. Conclusion Deon Thomas is human. He and his grandmother live on or below the poverty line. He comes from a broken home. He turned down Illinois’ offer of cash and a car on many occasions but could not hold out at the end. I personally do not blame him and a definitely do not hold any animosity toward him. The University of Illinois basketball program has committed several technical and philosophical violations in the recruitment of Deon Thomas. If found guilty of these charges, in the name of fairness, they must be punished. Strategy Notify the NCAA soon, prior to mid June, when Deon arrives at summer school in Champaign. Chances of having the truth come out are better if the investigation takes place in Chicago. Work with someone in Enforcement that we know personally. For example, I graduated from Boston College with Rich Hilliard and we have stayed in touch. Can we discuss "conditions" with the NCAA prior to turning over evidence: The University of Iowa must remain nameless or we’ll lose any chance of Deon coming to Iowa. Renaldo Kyles, Deon’s best friend who has worked with me, must also not be named in the investigation for exactly the same reason. Allow us the opportunity to advise them on the best way to get at the truth. That being simply this: There are several people who knew about the offers of cash prior to Deon’s commitment. Many of these same people have been with Don when he’s made some purchases that prior to signing with Illinois he would not have been able to. Those most likely to tell the truth are Deon’s teammates, Jackie Crawford, Antoine Johnson and Avery Stallings. These young men are going to junior college and might tell the truth about what they know if their eligibility at an NCAA school is put in question. Also Deon’s girlfriend, Latisha Scott, whom I’ve never met or talked to, might be willing to tell the truth if she could be convinced we’re not trying to hurt Deon. The object of this action is to punish the University of Illinois and prevent them from doing it again. We cannot be placed in an uncompetitive situation with anyone in our conference. Finally and most importantly, if this all can be done without destroying Deon Thomas, I’m in favor. But if the NCAA cannot adequately protect Deon and treat him as a victim also, then I would not feel the same way about this course of action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalensdad2002 Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 February 19, 1989 According to Deon, Jimmy Collins shook hands with him after the East St. Louis game and visited for a brief period of time. I was not present. It's funny how you find your place in time. We lost that game in Chicago. We felt we got jobbed by the officials. This was the game that got the players motivated to make state. We wanted another opportunity to face Simeon. At the time Counzo Martin was being heavily recruited by the Illini. These were the golden days of East St Louis hoops as Lute Olsen made a trip to watch Martin practice, Norm Stewart took in a game. Things were really going well and then Laphonso Ellis made the same accusations as Deon Thomas. Everyone wondered what prompted Ellis to make the statement. Immediately everyone began asking the question,"If he turned down all of this money from Illinois, "what did Notre Dame offer"? Things were never really the same as Ellis never really came back. Martin signed with Purdue which really angered the coaching staff as Purdue was perceived by Bennie Lewis as a football school. Illinois made the Final Four but lost to Michigan. I felt Ellis was the missing piece to that potential championship season. It's funny how seemingly innocuous choices have profound repercussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Jalensdad, it really is funny, and people may begin to realize how dirty some of the recruiting can get. While Ellis later withdrew his statements provided to the NCAA and admitted he lied, Digger Phelps to this day beats the drum against Illinois. Illinois was at the cusp of turning into a Duke, with a starting five that could have included Nick Anderson, Marcus Liberty, LaPhonso Ellis, Cuonzo Martin, and David Booth, if memory serves me right. Juwon Howard would have been coming off the bench! The list of Illinois players that filled the rosters of DePaul, Iowa, Notre Dame, Purdue, Michigan, Indiana, and other regional schools during this time period was staggering, and Illinois did not get a fair chance to recruit. It all came about from a recruiting coach at Iowa who tried to recruit Deon Thomas by using shortcuts and cheating, and then accusing Illinois of doing such in a vain effort to get Thomas by crook. People forget where Illinois was in the time between the football Slush fund scandal and the Lou Henson era. Norm Schmidt was a decent coach initially, but by the end of his run, Illinois did not have a single black player on their bball team, and no Illinois high school would push a black student to go to Illinois. Gene Bartow was stolen from Memphis, and he hired Tony Yates as his recruiter to beat the bushes in Chicago and Peoria. It worked - they got Audie Matthews - and Bartow fled after a year to replace John Wooden at UCLA. Henson arrived, and he eventually brought his former star New Mexico State PG and NBA player, Jimmie Collins, with him. Illinois has been tagged from Deongate as buying players for $80 grand and a Chevy Blazer, but it is funny how life really goes. No Illinois player evened owned a Chevy during this period(and most cars owned by the players were college hoopties, as expected,) and anyone who was paid that much surely could have paid a $3 grand apartment destruction bill(Marcus Liberty) or a mother's $40 grand hospital bill(Nick Anderson) without the need to turn pro. Bruce Pearl ultimately failed in his quest to rerecruit Deon Thomas or keep Iowa's name from being tied to the investigation, and he got fired from Iowa. Illinois almost got the death penalty in basketball, being found guilty for lack of institutional control( and were found COMPLETELY innocent of all charges of cash and car buyouts,)but they were killed on the recruiting side. Deon Thomas, his mother and grandmother were all cast as money grubbing leeches by Iowa/NCAA, and Thomas has never professionally played in the US. To this day, he calls Pearl a #&&( snake for starters. I'll write some more if there is interest, but I always find it interesting how the NCAA conducts bball investigations after living through this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalensdad2002 Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Illinois was at the cusp of turning into a Duke, with a starting five that could have included Nick Anderson, Marcus Liberty, LaPhonso Ellis, Cuonzo Martin, and David Booth, if memory serves me right. Juwon Howard would have been coming off the bench! That is a staggering amount of talent. I watched Liberty and Ellis do battle in 87 for the state championship. Liberty went off for 40 points, but the frontline of Ellis, Harris, & Rodgers were too much. I'll write some more if there is interest, but I always find it interesting how the NCAA conducts bball investigations after living through this one. Keep it coming, these were some of the best times of my life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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