slufanskip Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Cheezy ... I think you have some unresolved issues if my statement made you even think of that. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 whatever cheesy. i think it is important to view it from the other side. to say slu and pinkel run clean programs is one thing. to emphasize that $nyder flat out cheats and now has a certified renegade program ala the old vegas teams, is something entirely different. i wanted to throw the emphasis on the real reason i would rather have the likes of a pinkel or soderberg as compared to $nyder. somehow you want to play symantics to de-emphasize the absurbity of vanilla's thought process and somehow defend the mi$$ouri cheating basketball program. but the truth of the comparison should start right at the fact that pinkel and soderberg go beyond "clean" as compared to the cheating of $nyder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 but snyder wasn't even a part of vanilla's post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 he brings $nyder into the argument with "bottom line it is wins that count". my whole point is that we dont cheat. and he infers he is happy to cheat to win. so snyder becomes a focus of the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 no, you brought snyder into the argument. he was talking about pinkel. you got confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 but Cheesyball, Broy's got you. White Ape sure seems to be condoning whatever it takes to win at D1 level. Sometimes one must read between the lines to get the real meaning of things. Since you attend the state's agricultural school, I can see where that aspect of your education is sorely lacking. The statement "it's only wins that count" sure sounds Machievellian enough to me, i.e. the end justifies the means. It was this attitude that landed your bb program on probation. Oh, I know you Mizzery guys think you dodged a big bullet by not being banned from TV or post season. Wrongy dongy, Cheeseyball. The penalty fit the crime...you can't recruit for a whole year and you lost some open slots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 "hasn't won anything big." which is accurate for both pinkel and soderberg, and has nothing to do with quin. Roy brought quin up for no reason other than to fulfill his weekly quin-bashing needs. if you choose to read "wins matter" as "obviously quin snyder is the best coach in d-1," then i don't know what to tell you. you're just wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Yes Roy likes to bash Quinn ... but I think it was because he knows the Monkey man is a Mizzou fan ... and that post was only about attempting to knock UB. I still don't understand why people have so little to do they have to go to an opposing teams chat board and stir up trouble. If he is that bored he couldn't he just reskirt his trailer. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 i'm supposed to be bashing $nyder every week? i guess i have some making up to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 So ... what are you waiting for ... I think it deserves it's own thread. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 i dont think cheating $nyder deserves anything of his own unless it is a jail cell or at minimum his own place in the unemployment line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVanillaGorilla Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 I started the thread to compare Soderberger to Pinkel they seem very very similar in their approach and results. The bottom line everywhere is that winning is what counts. Most coaches won't last long if they don't win, clean or not. Just a fact. Pinkel by all account runs a clean program and locks up the in-state talent. If he can't start winning in a year or two he will be fired. They don't give out trophies for cleanest most upstanding program. Cleanest program doesn't fill any seats. Cleanest program does not get the fan base fired up. Sad but true. Melvin Watkin was great guy and had some previous success - now he is an assistant at Mizzou - why because he did not win. Good guys get fired all the time because they don't win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 and that's why basketball coaches are paid handsomely. They are expected to win and maintain a clean program. Neither are mutually exclusive. I have no problem with firing a coach, who graduates 100% of his players, follow all NCAA rules, and fields subpar teams. Quite frankly, that would be easy to do. Just focus on SAT scores, rather than basketball talent. I also have no problem firing a coach, who plays loose with the rules and smudges a university's reputation by choosing the short-cut route to winning success. That's why I'm glad Lane Odom and Tony Harvey are gone. Any more slipups from Quin and he should be out the door, too. Yes, the pressures, responsibilities, and demands are great on basketball coaches. However, I am not that sympathetic when you look at their paychecks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 big difference between what brad has done at saint louis university and what melvin watkins did at texas a&m. brad is 35-27 as the billiken coach. has gotten the team to post season both years and finished in the upper half of conference usa each year. watkins was a cellar dweller at texas a&m and never sniffed post season. it is my belief that even if brad never makes the ncaa final four, but wins more than he loses, turns out quality men to the real world and runs a clean program that doesnt embarrass the alumni, he will be there as long as he wants. imo, that is he worst case scenario of brad soderberg. he is building a program the right way without shortcuts and making marked improvement each year, each recruit. right now i see no reason the billikens wont be a top 25 team in future seasons. especially after getting out of the CUSA conference, where program and academic philosophies of the majority of competing schools put the billikens at a disadvantage to compete. once they join the a-10 which is made up of more schools with like attitudes, i believe it will only get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 aj, your staement infers that the billikens havent won under coach soderberg when in reality they have. as i said above, if he billikens win more than they lose, but do things right, i would take that over spumac activities that win anyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 even with $pumac's cheating, the best they could do is middle of the pack in their conference and they went out of the nit the round before the billikens. i.e. cheat all you want. but it is even more hollow when you dont reach the mountaintop then i assume. vanilla is ripping brad soderberg, but in reality the tiger$ had less of a season than the billikens did last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I agree with AJ ... I expect UB to win while maintining a clean program and graduating players. Now that doesn't mean final 4 or even sweet 16. I do expect to challenge for the A-10 title and make the NCAA torney 4 out of 5 years. I would also expect we will win games in the tourney. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 every year. I went into each season thinking they'd be .500 or less, but they've consistently exceeded my expectations. I agree they have won under Brad Soderberg. None of his teams have finished below .500. But to be fair, they haven't made the NCAA's either. However given the choice, I'd take Brad's winning teams that are on the cusp of postseason play every year than to take Mizzou's 4 out of 5 NCAA appearances that were tainted with scandals and malfeasance. As a Mizzou fan, I've turned the page. I'll give Quin one more chance and hope that he has reformed. I'm just thankful that the sanctions weren't worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I happen to like both Pinkel and Soderberg a lot. They both do things the right way IMHO. No question that this season seemed to be set up right for Mizzou to win their half of the Big 12. We rarely get a Mizzou game down here in Tampa, but we did get last weeks fiasco VS KSU. When I saw Brad Smith in previous seasons, Mizzou was running more of an option offense which to me seemed perfect for Smith's excellent running ability. What I saw Saturday was a different Brad Smith...with more drop back passing. I just don't think he looks very comfortable as a drop back passer. I was wondering watching that game...why the change. Mizzou lost two games where they had significant early leads to OSU and KSU. If they hold on to those leads then they probably could have won their division in the Big 12. I could understand the disappointment, but I don't think it warrants firing Pinkel. It is too early to tell where Coach Soderberg will take the SLU program, but the early returns are very promising. We will have at least two more highly recruited athletes tomorrow to add to a more talented Billiken squad. We are on the right track with a new confernce and building that should only enhance our chances with Coach Soderberg at the helm. I would not be shocked if we got a Big Dance bid this year. I see only good things in our future at SLU, and I am very pleased that Brad agreed to the contract extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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