ARon Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 On 4/7/2017 at 10:53 AM, Billiken Rich said: In mentioning better together I was thinking of sentiment rather than that organization. The point stands however. Race taxes crime and my own pet peeve nanny state control issues are all secondary concerns that will never be delt with once one party dominence in Saint Louis county is assured by adding the largest one party voting block in the state to the county voter rolls. Ironclad Dem party control of the county is going to happen regardless of any merger. Just look at where people are moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 minute ago, ARon said: Ironclad Dem party control of the county is going to happen regardless of any merger. Just look at where people are moving. Long term the county has far more significant problems than the city. The county has to deal with multiple teetering school districts, a rapidly aging population, large areas of unattractive for rehab aging housing stock, rising crime and what the state of MO is predicting to be the largest loss of population of any county in the state between now and 2030. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 9 minutes ago, brianstl said: Long term the county has far more significant problems than the city. The county has to deal with multiple teetering school districts, a rapidly aging population, large areas of unattractive for rehab aging housing stock, rising crime and what the state of MO is predicting to be the largest loss of population of any county in the state between now and 2030. The great thing about the unattractive aging housing stock in the county is that no one hugs it and it can be demolished without a nextstl cover story. Saying St. Louis County has far more significant problems than the city is patently ridiculous, unless you are assuming a city county merger..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARon Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 That is the attitude from Chesterfield and Kirkwood. Look at Florissant, Crestwood, Bridgeton, or Lemay and you see a very different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 15 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: The great thing about the unattractive aging housing stock in the county is that no one hugs it and it can be demolished without a nextstl cover story. Saying St. Louis County has far more significant problems than the city is patently ridiculous, unless you are assuming a city county merger..... The County has far more significant long term structural problems than the City. Who is going to demolish the housing, for what purpose and what is going to replace the property taxes generated by that abandon housing stock? The County is losing population, the state predicts that it will lose over 5% of it's population before 2030 and demographic trends point to over a third of the county population being over the age of 65. The county is basically facing all of the same trends the city faced over the last decades. The state is predicting an increase in population for the City between now and 2030. The City's demographics have rebounded over the last decade despite a slight population loss. With a growing population of people with bachelor or advance degrees replacing a lowered educated population that has moved out of the city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 58 minutes ago, ARon said: That is the attitude from Chesterfield and Kirkwood. Look at Florissant, Crestwood, Bridgeton, or Lemay and you see a very different story. I insure and inspect homes all over Saint Louis County. From the Riverview Circle to to Wildwood and from Berkeley to Ballwin. I'm just not seeing the carnage, at least not yet. I'm not seeing the crime, neglect, abandoned property, that I do in the City. The view from Cortex, and the shiney new Ikea might be clouding the views you get too. Again, I'm not say the County is in great shape. I'm saying that it is going down the rabbit-hole of one party rule that has made the city a tough place to live. The city county merger advocated by many can only make the problem exponentially worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 hour ago, brianstl said: The County has far more significant long term structural problems than the City. Who is going to demolish the housing, for what purpose and what is going to replace the property taxes generated by that abandon housing stock? The County is losing population, the state predicts that it will lose over 5% of it's population before 2030 and demographic trends point to over a third of the county population being over the age of 65. The county is basically facing all of the same trends the city faced over the last decades. The state is predicting an increase in population for the City between now and 2030. The City's demographics have rebounded over the last decade despite a slight population loss. With a growing population of people with bachelor or advance degrees replacing a lowered educated population that has moved out of the city. The City lost more than half or two thirds of it's of it's population since it's heights and will always suffer loss of families until the schools are taken care of. it's possible that upwardly mobile families will move to St. Charles County directly instead of stopping in St Louis County. This is especially true if the County government becomes as dysfunctional and cloying as the City government. The inner ring suburbs with exceptions like Clayton and University City, are a somewhat a mess but the housing stock there is largely identical to the city neighborhoods next to it. All of the housing stock in the city in not great. Most of it isn't. Neighborhoods Like Walnut Park and Baden look exactly like Lemay, and Riverview Gardens. Do you ever go to the north side? Inner-ring north or south county? It's all the same. The graying of the county population does mean less population growth but it also means a higher concentration of wealth which is not a bad thing. Increasing property values, highly ranked schools, less crime, less regulation are descriptors that most people/families still look for in a community. They do not yet apply to the city of Saint Louis unless you are moving from Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 One party rule has nothing to do with anything. If the party in power does the right things then there is no problem. A merger of the City into the County would not be a disaster. In fact everything points to it being a revival and a great growth opportunity as we have seen in other parts of the country such as Indy. What kills any area are small minded people who lack vision and only want to isolate themselves. Together we are all stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 27 minutes ago, cheeseman said: One party rule has nothing to do with anything. If the party in power does the right things then there is no problem. A merger of the City into the County would not be a disaster. In fact everything points to it being a revival and a great growth opportunity as we have seen in other parts of the country such as Indy. What kills any area are small minded people who lack vision and only want to isolate themselves. Together we are all stronger. Ok.....if the one party is YOUR party and believes what you believe is right then it seems like a win win. Or would you like a philosopher king to lead us as long as he does the right things? Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I'm just not seeing how a city county merger generates growth. The county government would have more control over our lives and regional planning would be more centralized, I just don't see that as a benefit. I'm not small minded and isolationist but I do see creeping government over-reach as a huge problem and have no confidence that a more muscular and less diverse (politically) government can help solve our problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Billiken Rich said: Ok.....if the one party is YOUR party and believes what you believe is right then it seems like a win win. Or would you like a philosopher king to lead us as long as he does the right things? Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I'm just not seeing how a city county merger generates growth. The county government would have more control over our lives and regional planning would be more centralized, I just don't see that as a benefit. I'm not small minded and isolationist but I do see creeping government over-reach as a huge problem and have no confidence that a more muscular and less diverse (politically) government can help solve our problems. For one thing, a centralized regional planning group would stop all the developers pitting one city against the other by trying to make each one up the ante on TIFs and other tax incentives. The county government would not have anymore control over our lives then they already do it is just that a broader approach to overall development would benefit everyone - no need for people saying what is in it for me, we all benefit equally. You provide the standard Republican type answer - small government is the best but just as when Reagan and Bush (W) were presidents the federal government grew at record setting rates. The answer is not one or the other but the best of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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