slufanskip Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 If you were Walt J. would you go after Randy Johnson and what would you be willing to give up. RJ is owed about 8 mil for the rest of this year and 18 mil next year ... so you have him for next year also. Arizona wants prospects ... mainly at the catcher, corners, and pitchers. I say we go after him ... I would give up any of our minor league pitchers ... but would try to push Haren or Thompson. I would also be willing to give up Yadi Molina and Gall ... or two pitchers and one of the above. With our offense and RJ. We would have an almost guaranteed 1st game playoff win ... we then have Carpenter, Marquis, Suppan, Matt and Woody to pick from for the 2nd and 3rd spots. I would think the owners would step up and not force us to get rid of Morris ... as the extra playoff games and maybe world series games would pay for RJ. If I had to though I would send Morris or Woody to a contender for whomever ... just to dump salary. We could probably send Matt and make a deal with him to come back next year for a little extra $$$'s. I would rather have him than Woody next year. They are both in the final years of their contracts. What do you guys think. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 If we had a healthy Wainwright, Blakesworth and a few of our other bright pitching prospects, I think we'd have enough to get Randy Johnson. Only problem is we don't, they're all hurt. Even if we did, management has implied that they aren't willing to add another $24 million in payroll. Meaning any deal would involve trading Matt Morris. While I'm not the greatest fan of Morris now with his diminishing velocity and straight fastball, I'm also not a big fan of messing with the team chemistry. I do believe Morris is emerging as a strong leader and is very close with many of the teammates. So I just wouldn't let him go. I also like looking at the big picture. I just don't believe in sacrificing the future for one big shot. We need payroll flexibility to resign Renteria and maybe Morris. Let's face it, St. Louis' TV market prevents us from fielding a veteran, expensive team in the long run. We're going to need a Haren, Blakesworth and Wainright to provide more payroll flexibility in the future. Let's be competitive for three or five more years, rather than roll the dice on one. Look at the Diamondbacks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 i keep chuckling when i hear folks belittling matt morris. i totally agree he is not the pitcher he once was, but the last time i looked, he was leading the team in wins, innings pitched, and possesses the only complete game on the staff. sure the homeruns allowed are alarming, and his era is higher that it has been in the past, but the guy is a proven winner and a work horse. i for one dont consider him the #5 starter and the worst pitcher on the team. i am betting he is a playoff starter if the playoffs were starting today. as for getting johnson, i am not that worried about the cardinal starters. i still say the achilles heel is no left fielder. if the cardinals want to rent a player, i would see where juan gonzalez is in the next couple of weeks and if healthy, see if we can steal him from kansas city for gall and whatever. might as well use gall for something. it is obvious that the genius isnt going to use the minor league player of the year to be other wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 I understand why the Cardinals (with AP at first and SR at 3B, plus their mix of healthy veteran backup outfielders) have not called up John Gall. I'm sure all 30 major league teams have been following Gall since he was a senior in high school (1996). Why doesn't any of the other 29 teams want to put Gall on their 25-man major league roster? I guess we will have to wait until September and the expanded roster to see him in St. Louis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 I used to see the Big Unit pitch regularly when I lived in Seattle. While it was not always his fault until the D-Backs WS year, he had a p!ss poor playoff won-loss record. He isn't getting any younger either, so I would probably do what the Cards are going to do...roll the dice with got them to the current best record in the Majors. I really don't expect a major deal by the Cards, as someone said it's hard to screw with the nice chemistry and adding a cancer like Juan Gone to the roster won't happen...NO WAY!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 I agree with no Juan Gone ... but I am very surprised that so far the sentiment seems to be to leave RJ alone. One thing is RJ only has 1 more year ... so it is not a long term committment ... Haren is not La Russa's favorite, and IMO is not going to be a star ... we all know the deal with Gall. Yadi would be the toughest to give up ... but with Barton in the system, I would gamble. I like Matt to ... I wear his # in softball ... and I agree with the team chemistry thing ... but RJ takes you over the top. I don't know his playoff record ... but he never had an offense like this in front of him ... Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 I think you are right on the money (no pun intended). RJ is very costly both in salary dollars and in talent. Clearly our pitching is better than expected AND we have the offense to get us out of close games. I personally want a team that is a contender every year. Bringing RJ in puts that on tenuous ground beyond this year. Now, if the guy was 32, maybe I would have a different opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 especially when you're trying to resign Renteria. Plus, RJ has had back problems and is 40. Too big of a risk to me. As for Daric Barton, he's purely a hitter. I can't see him catching under Dave Duncan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 To any Big Unit deal, and he said the same thing as someone else in this thread. The Cards cannot afford Randy's $16MM next year and have ANY hope of signing Edgar. That sounds like a no brainer to me too, as I want to see Edgar back with a long term deal...he's still very young and needs to be in the same conversation for best SS in MLB. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1842161 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 nothing that i am aware of has ever come out about juan gonzalez being a team "cancer". the worst that i see out of the guy is he has trouble staying healthy the last few years. however when he is right, he is as feared a hitter as there is in the game. maybe i have a soft spot for gonzalez because of a meeting i had with juan at a sports card show a few years back. while the likes of johnny bench and bob gibson wouldnt give me or my then 10 year old son the courtesy of even looking at us let alone say a kind word, juan through an interpretter spent a few minutes talking to theo and actually came around the table to shake his hand and personalize the ball he signed with "to theo. always try your best". i will never forget that. we then went over to bench's line where he not only ignored us as he signed but smeared his signature when he carelessly handed the ball back. the cardinals in their historic seasons have always seemed to find a reclamation project to help them make it to the end. who can forget ceasar cedeno, roger maris, will clark, etc. for just a few months and the sniff of a pennant in what is rapidly becoming the end of the line for juan, i'd roll the dice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyClyde Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Gonzalez is a huge head case. Potential huge clubhouse problem and he is a butcher in the field. There has to be a better prospect for left field out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 well there is, john gall. but larosa wont bring him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Isn't the word with Gall is that he cannot field a ball to save his life? Sounds like he's a perfect candidate to be a DH in the AL. Juan Gonzalas is as close to a "cancer" as you can get. Selfish, flaky, known for picking up women he sees in the stands during the game (married and divorced 5 times by age 25 too!). He was a major problem in his one year with the Tigers (turned down a $140 million contract!) and he cannot stay healthy. He also always disappeared in the playoffs with the Rangers. He sure has worked out in KC, hasn't he. I'm really leaning towards not making a move, this team has great chemistry and you hate to break that up. Just because our pictchers aren't the big names with media hype doesn't mean they can't pitch us to a win in a 5 game series. That said, one note on Randy Johnson. While his playoff record may not be great, if it is indeed the Cubs we end up facing during the playoffs, his career record against the Cubs in 15 starts is 12-0 with an ERA under 2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 billiken law said, "He also always disappeared in the playoffs with the Rangers." when were the rangers last in the playoffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 They went in 1996, 98 and 99, winning the AL west each time but losing each series (I think all 3 to the Yankees). The last time they went, 1999, they were outscored by the Yanks 14-1 and management sent Gonzalas packing to Detroit. Little blurb I found on Juan Gone's attitude: Unfortunately for Texas, a return to the playoffs included another matchup with the Yankees, who dispatched them in three straight first-round games en route to a World Championship. Part of a teamwide offensive collapse, Gonzalez managed just one hit in twelve at bats during the ALDS. Gonzalez hit .326 in 1999 while topping 30 homers and 100 RBIs for the fourth consecutive year. But preoccupied with marital difficulties and his daughter's recurrent ear infections, which were bad enough to require surgery after the season, Gonzalez was exceptionally moody. In July, he made headlines when he refused to participate in the All-Star Game unless he was voted in as a starter. (He wasn't, and AL skipper Joe Torre dropped him from the team.) Two weeks later, he dropped out of the exhibition Hall of Fame Game, complaining his uniform pants were too big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 I think its a little early to say that about Barton ... that is not the thoughts of the Cards. Yes he needs work ... but they beleive he can get it done ... Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 The cards don't think Barton is purely a hitter ... he is not Yadi defensively ... but they think the improvements can and are being made. That is why he is still catching for them now. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobile-iken Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 To give Gonzales a little bit of credit...One ALDS, I don't recall which, he had a very good series, possibly even breaking the home run record for an ALDS at that time. And let's not forget he is a 2 time AL MVP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 yes, I'll grant him that, but the past 3 seasons combined he's played less than 160 games total. I think that if the Cards are going to make a move there are better options out there (i.e. Benson, Randy Winn, a few Mariner players, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 no way i take benson. if i take a pitcher, give me someone dominating, not someone as good as what we got. benson is not better than any of the cards current starters, so why would we take him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 well, fleecing the Pirates worked for the Cubs last season! If we could get him for cheap why not? Plus, I worry about the health of Woody and Carpenter. My preferences are: 1. Don't make any moves 2. Rightfielder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 rightfielder? you mean left fielder? or do you have something you dont like about sanders? and if so, that would mean you agree with rotating musical chairs for left field but not use sanders? i personally wouldnt mess with the pitching. if randy johnson was 34, i would say send the whole freaking memphis roster to arizona. but not at 40. my guess is the pirates wont give benson away, plus, i dont think he is cheap salarywise anyway. he isnt johnson money, but he isnt cheap either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 I always played infield so I get the outfield positions reversed! Just go with "another outfielder" (which is why I think Winn would be a good pick-up.) As for Sanders, the last game I was at (Cubs on Sunday) Sanders' errors led to the 3rd inning run when the Cubs put the game away. Whatever they do, just make sure they can resign Renteria in the off-season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 i think we are actually on the same page. we just disagree with how to fill that last spot. i want bigtime experience that we just rent for the rest of the season. or else i say use gall. you want something that can there for awhile like a winn. i could live with winn. the thing about sanders is that he isnt a top guy, but if you think that the cardinals have the likes of puhols, rollin, edmunds, and renteria ahead of him in the responsibility standings, that is a pretty darn good 5th guy. not many teams can put a 5th guy out there like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Randy Winn would be an OK pickup for the Cards. He was the best ball player on a crappy D-Rays team a couple years ago. He has a decent bat, runs good, and is good defensively. If we could get him for a reasonable price from the M's then I say make a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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