Clock_Tower Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 clock said, "IMO, though, basketball privileges (practicing w/ team, sitting on the team bench during games...) should have been withdrawn but I would still allow tutors and weight training. The kid is an athelete first and a student a far distant second. If school tutors were, in fact, withdrawn, then I suggest -- why bother? WR had bad grades and study skills before SLU, academically he did not belong at SLU or any college, he failed miserably at school while playing for SLU for 2 years with the benefit of tutors, etc., he was then suspended from the team (presumably after many warnings)... How can a kid like this - who failed miserably and wasted all the chances given him - then succeed without tutors and academic assistance? I sure hope SLU would not have withheld tutors!! If so, SLU condemned him to failure. We talk about increasing budgets, not being cheap... suspension of tutoring based upon principle? I sure hope SLU didn't do this." commenting in reverse: 1. i do not believe for a second the no tutor thing was budget motivated. those tutors are out there and will get assigned regardless. i.e. money already spent. 2. i agree he failed miserably. my take is he had failed to the point, it was a matter slu had pretty much had it with him and it was at the point where it was indeed all on willie. sure that seems like an almost impossible success opportunity, but considering the number of opportunities and chances he had already been given, it was appropriate imo. 3. they (slu) probably bothered out of respect to the fans, to rickma, to the billikens, to willie. "ok, one last chance. but this time it is ALL on you willie." 4. i like to believe that saint louis university never becomes a school that allows, "athlete first and a student a far distant second". maybe that was the problem. willie reed should have never been a billiken. Roy. In response. 1. Agree. Not a money issue but I would simply take the stance that if a university takes any student - for any reason but not limited to athletics - who is below what SLU would normally accept, then SLU should never withdraw tutors. To me, the cost is so minimal and so basic to the philosophy of teaching that I would never withhold tutoring. Practices, team functions, games, other perks and benefits are one thing. When SLU made an exception to take him for basketball reasons, this obligation should continue - especially at a time when he is failing out. 2. See above. Isn't the benefit of trying to protect SLU's investment and the favorable impact WR (if allowed to play), both financially and otherwise, worth the marginal cost of a tutoring? 3. W/o tutoring, no way can a guy like WR turn things around. Still no confirmation that SLU withheld tutoring. Is free tutoring offered to ALL students on probation? What is SLU's policy? 4. Guess we can debate the degree and extent to which SLU and schools should make to create a double standard for athletes. SLU, though, does have a double standard and always will. No way many (not all) of our athletes would get into SLU if not for athletics. The question, though, is what is the extent of the double standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Roy. In response. 1. Agree. Not a money issue but I would simply take the stance that if a university takes any student - for any reason but not limited to athletics - who is below what SLU would normally accept, then SLU should never withdraw tutors. To me, the cost is so minimal and so basic to the philosophy of teaching that I would never withhold tutoring. Practices, team functions, games, other perks and benefits are one thing. When SLU made an exception to take him for basketball reasons, this obligation should continue - especially at a time when he is failing out. 2. See above. Isn't the benefit of trying to protect SLU's investment and the favorable impact WR (if allowed to play), both financially and otherwise, worth the marginal cost of a tutoring? 3. W/o tutoring, no way can a guy like WR turn things around. Still no confirmation that SLU withheld tutoring. Is free tutoring offered to ALL students on probation? What is SLU's policy? 4. Guess we can debate the degree and extent to which SLU and schools should make to create a double standard for athletes. SLU, though, does have a double standard and always will. No way many (not all) of our athletes would get into SLU if not for athletics. The question, though, is what is the extent of the double standard? clock to put it cold and short, maybe the "deal" reed got was a way for reed to allow reed to more or less "expel" himself. i.e. slu really didnt want him back, and this way it was all on reed. if for some ungodly reason reed found slu god and changed his life and habits and made it, good for him. if not, his problem. i dont know this. but i know i make loan offers like this all the time where all the burden is on the customer to "fix" issues or pay a price. if they do, good for our bank. if they dont, they basically turned me down on the face of the deal. however if it is a customer i really want to win, that isnt the way i would present the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 clock to put it cold and short, maybe the "deal" reed got was a way for reed to allow reed to more or less "expel" himself. i.e. slu really didnt want him back, and this way it was all on reed. if for some ungodly reason reed found slu god and changed his life and habits and made it, good for him. if not, his problem. i dont know this. but i know i make loan offers like this all the time where all the burden is on the customer to "fix" issues or pay a price. if they do, good for our bank. if they dont, they basically turned me down on the face of the deal. however if it is a customer i really want to win, that isnt the way i would present the deal. I understand. The difference is that your bank has really nothing to gain if they lend to that guy or a different guy. WR, though, could put alot of money and donations into SLU's coffers if he put the program on his back and carried us into/deep into the NCAA Tourney. Also, if SLU is going to have double standards for athletes and take a flier on a guy like WR, then see it through to the end with proper academic support. Again, not sure what SLU would offer other students v. athletes. If WR had to seek tutoring on his own and wait for an opening like the rest of the student population as opposed to having the basketball tutor come to WR on WR's schedule and time, then I wouldn't find this quite as bad. Still, just like a player/coach relationship, a tutor/student relationship is built over time. Tutors get to know how a student best learns. Just seems shortsided and against the interests of SLU, if nothing else, if SLU were to punish WR by withdrawing the same tutor he had been using. Roy. Would you generally support withdrawing the team tutor to help ensure a kid fails in the classroom with regard to a kid who underperforms on the basketball court? RM is to coach the kid up but it's OK to have tutors withdraw and academically doom marginal to poor student athletes? Why have tutors at all for the basketball team? Shouldn't we just let them sink or swim like we do other students? If they sink, then we just say that they shouldn't have been Billikens anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Plus, it's so nice to make old people feel important. As proven by the existence of this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 As proven by the existence of this board. touche', bonwich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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