Ritter's Biedscheid commits to Notre Dame

[STL Hoops Insider]

Local kids? Ellis and Loe?

If Brett Thompson was a 4*, I sure do not remember that... there are several entities that rank the kids, and there will be some discrepancies.

Lisch was a fine player for us, one of my favorites, but I recall he was a 3*; maybe he was 4* somewhere, do not remember seeing him as a 4*.

Certainly not 5*.

The "stars" are not the only criteria.

I am talking about big time prospects, at Jahidi White, David Lee, Beal levels, 5*, even strong 4*, that are definitley not 3*, the kind of local kids that get multiple offers to BCS conferences, contenders within those conferences.

We have never kept that kind of player in town.

Brett Thompson was a 4 star as a sophomore and junior when he was 6'11 190 and fleet footed and shooting 3's. The 250 pound version that arrived at SLU was a shell of his former self. I'm not sure if he was told to add 60lbs to his frame so he could be a center instead of a perimeter player or if he did it on his own, but it was a horrible move.

[TheChosenOne]

Kids don't pick schools because of the conference.

I disagree with this statement, kids wants to play for the big time schools and those are the BCS programs If a kid is choosing between SLU or Creighton and a school like Arkansas or Indiana you better believe the conference and exposure of a BCS conference is a factor.

[NH]

I disagree with this statement, kids wants to play for the big time schools and those are the BCS programs If a kid is choosing between SLU or Creighton and a school like Arkansas or Indiana you better believe the conference and exposure of a BCS conference is a factor.

It is a factor, I agree. But I dont think it is one of the most important factors. Exposure comes in a lot of ways, foremost is winning games. If you win, have a good fanbase, and are on TV, you will recruit well. Some of those things come with being in a good conference, but they can also be achieved in a smaller conference.

[MB73]

It is a factor, I agree. But I dont think it is one of the most important factors. Exposure comes in a lot of ways, foremost is winning games. If you win, have a good fanbase, and are on TV, you will recruit well. Some of those things come with being in a good conference, but they can also be achieved in a smaller conference.

MUCH more than a factor; conferences make a huge difference for 5* players.

Most think they have a chance at the NBA.

They want to play against the best, and that's the ACC, SEC, Big 12, Big East, and Big 10.

They want to play for the upper echelon teams in those conferences, too.

And television; BCS schools are on ESPN, ESPN2, CBS... the A-10 television situation is pathetic.

SLU gets on second rate Direct TV channels (613?) or whatever. Sometimes. If we are lucky.

Where would you send your 5* kid?

[bsheldon]

I think local talent's value is being overstated a bit. Sure there would be a slight increase in interest in the program just by getting the kid's family, friends and people and who went to school with him to a game or two, but the bottom line is--you still have to win games. Period. Duke didn't win the national championship last year with a bunch of homegrown talent--they went out and recruited a team--just like everyone else. When (within the next couple of years) SLU is an established winning program--we will garner the attention of more good players--no matter where they are from. Winning will do that. Now, if we continue to win for several years in a row, there might actually be some buzz about the program within the city and some younger, local guys may start to follow the program and truly want to go to SLU--just like any other program. Some kids want to go their local program and others want to get away. I don't see any higher relationship between locals and out-of town kids at most top programs. If there is--it isn't substantial. I don't see many kids from Lexington on KY's team. Again, when we were a fledgling program--getting any help with local exposure or talent was a bonus. However, once established as a winning program--it really won't matter. I also feel that just because a kid is local and some people actually get to see him play he is considered more of a prize. Say a 4* local vs a 4* kid from Timbuktu--the local kid is perceived to be a better get and is wanted more--I guess because of the personal attachment? RM knows what he wants in players and I don't think where the kid was born really plays into his decision much.

Would I have loved to see BEAL in Billiken white and blue? Of course, just as would a fan from any top program--talent like that is prized by everyone, not just schools local to the kid. I would also have loved to see Brandon Knight in St. Louis too, but again that didn't happen. Truly top tier talent like that is going to have his pick of schools and quite frankly, I don't know why a kid would pick SLU over any number of top programs that have better facilities, more exposure, a consistent record of winning, etc. Again establishing a winning tradition will change that and SLU will see its fair share of 4*'s and maybe a 5 here or there in the next 10 years. Will any of those be local? Who knows? How many 5*'s does St Louis produce a year--maybe 1 sometimes 2? 4 stars--5-10? Again in the scheme of things this is a very small poplutaion of players--many of whom may not be a fit for SLU for any number of reasons (team make up, acedemics, etc.) So, with literally hundreds of players to build your team with, focussing on this tiny bunch may not make the most sense. Yes, they are close and it would be much easier to stay in touch with the kid, but again, very few of these kids may even be a fit, and even fewer may even want to stay home.

[Clock_Tower]

I think local talent's value is being overstated a bit. Sure there would be a slight increase in interest in the program just by getting the kid's family, friends and people and who went to school with him to a game or two, but the bottom line is--you still have to win games. Period. Duke didn't win the national championship last year with a bunch of homegrown talent--they went out and recruited a team--just like everyone else. When (within the next couple of years) SLU is an established winning program--we will garner the attention of more good players--no matter where they are from. Winning will do that. Now, if we continue to win for several years in a row, there might actually be some buzz about the program within the city and some younger, local guys may start to follow the program and truly want to go to SLU--just like any other program. Some kids want to go their local program and others want to get away. I don't see any higher relationship between locals and out-of town kids at most top programs. If there is--it isn't substantial. I don't see many kids from Lexington on KY's team. Again, when we were a fledgling program--getting any help with local exposure or talent was a bonus. However, once established as a winning program--it really won't matter. I also feel that just because a kid is local and some people actually get to see him play he is considered more of a prize. Say a 4* local vs a 4* kid from Timbuktu--the local kid is perceived to be a better get and is wanted more--I guess because of the personal attachment? RM knows what he wants in players and I don't think where the kid was born really plays into his decision much.

Would I have loved to see BEAL in Billiken white and blue? Of course, just as would a fan from any top program--talent like that is prized by everyone, not just schools local to the kid. I would also have loved to see Brandon Knight in St. Louis too, but again that didn't happen. Truly top tier talent like that is going to have his pick of schools and quite frankly, I don't know why a kid would pick SLU over any number of top programs that have better facilities, more exposure, a consistent record of winning, etc. Again establishing a winning tradition will change that and SLU will see its fair share of 4*'s and maybe a 5 here or there in the next 10 years. Will any of those be local? Who knows? How many 5*'s does St Louis produce a year--maybe 1 sometimes 2? 4 stars--5-10? Again in the scheme of things this is a very small poplutaion of players--many of whom may not be a fit for SLU for any number of reasons (team make up, acedemics, etc.) So, with literally hundreds of players to build your team with, focussing on this tiny bunch may not make the most sense. Yes, they are close and it would be much easier to stay in touch with the kid, but again, very few of these kids may even be a fit, and even fewer may even want to stay home.

Local kids also have alot of baggage that non-locals don't have. For example, when RM got in TL's face and told him (probably for the first time in his life), that TL is not as good as he thinks he is, that he needs to play defense, etc. and that the team's offense will no longer be based upon him and his strengths, not only was TL and his family (Father) understandably upset, but so too was the "urban community", the "Illinois/East St. Louis community" or whoever they are. Reminded me of the partial benching of Dwayne Polk by Soderberg which not only was deserving and probably upset DP and his immediate family/friends but also it caused problems for Brad and the whole SLU program when guys like Demetrius Johnson and some of the local media types gave their opinions. Another example is when the AAU community gets offended when SLU doesn't offer one of their guys or suck-up to all their demands.

Under RM, Just imagine the negative reaction if guys like JJ or JS came from a prominent local high school. RC and BT were not really locals.

[Clock_Tower]

Sure, we've kept some damn good players, but never the 5* types.

The kids you mentioned were good signees but not 5*, recruited by multiple BCS conference contenders.

Like Beal: Florida, Duke, Kansas, Ohio State...

(& fyi your last sentence is ridiculous)

Re-read your own posts. You mention that SLU will not land local 4 AND 5 stars recruits. If you want to limit your own post to 5 stars, then you're probably more accurate. Then, again, how many schools which make the Tourney 3 times in 20 years are landing 5 star recruits. My guess is probably none. How many non-BCS schools are really landing 5 star recruits. My guess is probably not many. Therefore, can only conclude that your post states the obvious. If that is what you meant, then we agree.

Isn't it about time for scome Valley discussion and comparisons from you? Another email of the Valley v. the A10??

[Taj79]

Programs just don't wake up one day and become "special" ---- its a process, a marathon, and not a sprint. There are a number of factors, some of which are tradition, winning histories, the coach, the conference, the facilities, the administration's commitment, the talent pool, and so on. We are not there but are making progress on a number of fronts. Will we ever have all the planets line up? Not in my lifetime. But with Majerus and Chaifetz, we at least have some things in better shape than others moreso than we have ever had.

I see us losing more of these local battles in the closest years to come. It is why, in my book, these next two years are key and essential. The talent base is in place to legitimately compete this year. But these guys have to want it and produce --- they are NOT five- and four-star players, but they all know the coach and know the system. I bought Athlon's the other day --- not because I put any more stock in some hack writer telling me what's going to happen but because its a reference for the rest of the year. We were picked for fifth and to make the NIT behind Temple, Richmond, Xavier and Dayton. Do I care? Not really. But what most moved me were the quotes attributed to Majerus ....."we don't have a scheme .... (the players) have to understand your shooting percentage, defensive effort, and rebounding are correlated to conditioning .... (those that improve) will have spent the summer developing those tools and improving those skills." He has long talked about the five year plan --- living w/Soderbeg's remains, and recruiting from there. He has done well and i don't think anyone will argue that last year was a nice surprise. But that surprise might have moved the expectations up a year when he was thinking next year. If we continue to improve and we improve on last year that is only three possible conference rungs AND most certainly an NCAA berth. Right now, the future is so bright I have to wear shades. Screw Andy Strickland!

But .... this is only a plateau. As a somber reminder, three of Xavier's four recruits are Athlon's Top 100. We have none. Dayton has a Top 100 in Staten as does St. Joe's in some guy named Papa Samba Ndao (?). Of the next 200, St. Joe's has three more , Dayton has three, La Salle two and Richmond one. Athlon's actually listed one for us --- Dwayne Evans! Oh, and Xavier's fourth guy is also in there. None for Temple --- yet with Dunphy, I know that means nothing.

So here we are, arguably maybe one year ahead of the timeline in the original Majerus predicition. I have tempered hopes for this year bt am anxiously awaiting the start. I have high hopes right now so I'm concentrating on the current and letting the future come as it may. I'll react from there.

[MB73]

Re-read your own posts. You mention that SLU will not land local 4 AND 5 stars recruits. If you want to limit your own post to 5 stars, then you're probably more accurate. Then, again, how many schools which make the Tourney 3 times in 20 years are landing 5 star recruits. My guess is probably none. How many non-BCS schools are really landing 5 star recruits. My guess is probably not many. Therefore, can only conclude that your post states the obvious. If that is what you meant, then we agree.

Isn't it about time for scome Valley discussion and comparisons from you? Another email of the Valley v. the A10??

We are not that far apart, I said 5* the last post because some posters dispute who is a 4* vs 5*, according to the different ratings entities.

One guy said Brett Thompson was a 4* when he was a sophmore and / or junior. Another said Lisch had offer from Illinois.

So I went to 5* and added for clarification kids that are recruited by multiple BCS contenders, since a few kids might have been contacted by one BCS school or something and some posters split hairs on it.

I think that is a better definition, some 4* might be recruited by 3-4 BCS contenders, so then, he fits the definition.

As to the MVC, that is just you stirring up crap, I didn't say anything about the MVC.

If SLU was in The MVC, we wouldnt get the 5* type kids, that are recruited by multiple BCS contenders, either, same reasons.

So stop it.

[GMan Alum]

I bought Athlon's the other day --- not because I put any more stock in some hack writer telling me what's going to happen but because its a reference for the rest of the year. [/b] We were picked for fifth and to make the NIT behind Temple, Richmond, Xavier and Dayton. Do I care? Not really. But what most moved me were the quotes attributed to Majerus ....."we don't have a scheme .... (the players) have to understand your shooting percentage, defensive effort, and rebounding are correlated to conditioning .... (those that improve) will have spent the summer developing those tools and improving those skills." He has long talked about the five year plan --- living w/Soderbeg's remains, and recruiting from there. He has done well and i don't think anyone will argue that last year was a nice surprise.

I also bought Athlon's - I think that mag is better than most. I browsed through Lindy's and they commented that Darrin Young, who played a combined 15 minutes in the two VCU games would be a big contributor to the team this year. Gimme a break. Who does their research, Bonzo the Monkey?

[bsheldon]

GMan,

It sounds like you don't think DY will contribute much? Why?

Sure, he probably isn't going to go for 20 a night, but he could be a solid contributor at that level. I guess it depends on your definition of "big contributor."

[GMan Alum]

GMan,

It sounds like you don't think DY will contribute much? Why?

Sure, he probably isn't going to go for 20 a night, but he could be a solid contributor at that level. I guess it depends on your definition of "big contributor."

Uh, maybe because he's not even at SLU.

[bsheldon]

Gman,

I totally missed what you said. Sorry for the confusion--major brain fart on my part. I saw "lindy" and assumed you meant Lindenwood. I had thought that that was where DY went--I knew it was local and got it confused. I think he is actually at Maryville. I did not know that Lindy's was an online sports magazine/service. If that is what they said about SLU than I think Bonzo the monkey could have done better. It is safe to say you didn't join--for good reason.

[GMan Alum]

Gman,

I totally missed what you said. Sorry for the confusion--major brain fart on my part. I saw "lindy" and assumed you meant Lindenwood. I had thought that that was where DY went--I knew it was local and got it confused. I think he is actually at Maryville. I did not know that Lindy's was an online sports magazine/service. If that is what they said about SLU than I think Bonzo the monkey could have done better. It is safe to say you didn't join--for good reason.

Actually Lindy's is a nice, full-color, glossy paper magazine and they also publish the other sports, but they don't do a very thorough job researching In the college basketball edition they also kept spelling Willie's last name as Reid. And, you are correct that Darrin, who did perform well in a pinch against VCU, is at Maryville.