Question for the College Baseball guys here.

[billikenfan05]

I remember going to many SLU baseball games a few years ago and remember that the DH was only on occasional games or pitchers hit in certain games. Since I finally enrolled at SLU I started going to a few games this year and noticed that all games are Designated Hitter games. When did this change take place?

[thetorch]

I remember going to many SLU baseball games a few years ago and remember that the DH was only on occasional games or pitchers hit in certain games. Since I finally enrolled at SLU I started going to a few games this year and noticed that all games are Designated Hitter games. When did this change take place?

College baseball has a DH for as long as I can remember. A pitcher can be the DH though.

[billikenfan05]

I thought I remembered some games being strictly designated as Pitchers Hit games.

[bhayes520]

No game I've ever been to.

[ARbilliken]

no game I've ever been to either. I've always seen the DH in college ball. Some coaches will bat pitchers though---cause some can hit unlike the majority in the majors.

[GMan Alum]

I remember going to many SLU baseball games a few years ago and remember that the DH was only on occasional games or pitchers hit in certain games. Since I finally enrolled at SLU I started going to a few games this year and noticed that all games are Designated Hitter games. When did this change take place?

The DH came into being back in the early 70's, while I was playing there. Believe me, the pitchers were not happy about it, either. That first year we did let some of the pitchers hit, but by the 2nd year the lineup always had a DH. I guess two teams could agree to not use the DH (maybe a wood-bat game?), but I would have to believe that is a rarity unless a team has an Ankiel-like athlete.

While it does make some sense at the amateur level, I do wish Major League Baseball would get rid of it.

[billiken_roy]

While it does make some sense at the amateur level, I do wish Major League Baseball would get rid of it.

really? i love the dh. i have no interest in watching major league pitchers hit. it is actually embarrassing imo. and for those that think it will take away strategy, i say no. now instead of deciding if you are going to pinch hit or bunt with the .083 pitcher, you can instead do it with the 224 catcher or second basemen.

second you get to watch the likes of american league pitchers that still have it going on the mound max out their appearances instead of being pinch hit for in the 6th or 7th innings.

sorry, i think the national league is stupid for not adapting the dh.

and for those saying that just isnt baseball, the truth is the only leagues that dont use the dh in the world are pretty much the national league and little league where they are batting the entire roster of 8 year olds.

[GMan Alum]

really? i love the dh. i have no interest in watching major league pitchers hit. it is actually embarrassing imo. and for those that think it will take away strategy, i say no. now instead of deciding if you are going to pinch hit or bunt with the .083 pitcher, you can instead do it with the 224 catcher or second basemen.

second you get to watch the likes of american league pitchers that still have it going on the mound max out their appearances instead of being pinch hit for in the 6th or 7th innings.

sorry, i think the national league is stupid for not adapting the dh.

and for those saying that just isnt baseball, the truth is the only leagues that dont use the dh in the world are pretty much the national league and little league where they are batting the entire roster of 8 year olds.

But Roy, If the NL adopted the DH then we in Cardinal Nation wouldn't get to witness Mr. LaRussa's never ending double-switches.

[billiken_roy]

But Roy, If the NL adopted the DH then we in Cardinal Nation wouldn't get to witness Mr. LaRussa's never ending double-switches.

well that and the really genius move of batting that 083 pitcher 8th.

[DirtyRican]

I agree with you that both leagues should have the DH. Watching pitchers hit is a joke. Spending most of my college career as a DH I can tell you that it isnt much fun either. I would rather play the field as you are more into the game. I give major props to those few guys that excelled soley as a DH for most of their careers. If you look at numbers, most major leaguers dont hit as well when they are not in the field.

[billiken_roy]

if the national league had the dh, cardinal nation wouldnt be wringing their hands this morning wondering if chris carpenter is going on the 21 day dl again or not.

[kevinfootes]

if the national league had the dh, cardinal nation wouldnt be wringing their hands this morning wondering if chris carpenter is going on the 21 day dl again or not.

21-day DL?

roy, why not have 9 DHs? Doesn't that strengthen your argument?

[billiken_roy]

21-day DL?

roy, why not have 9 DHs? Doesn't that strengthen your argument?

footes, like i said in an above post, why is it that the national league is the only organized league/conference above 8 year old roster bat leagues that doesnt use the dh? your assertion is beyond ridiculous to even warrant a comment. if no other organization/level of baseball used the dh and i was making the dh proposal for the first time in the history of baseball your over the top statement would be humorous and on target. however it has been decades since that was the case.

[Pistol]

if the national league had the dh, cardinal nation wouldnt be wringing their hands this morning wondering if chris carpenter is going on the 21 day dl again or not.

I don't understand how this is relevant. It's not Carp's bat we're going to miss. We'll still have a pitcher hitting 9th, regardless of who it is.

Regarding you're earlier comment that you have no interest watching pitchers hit and find it embarrassing, that's how I feel about watching an aging, overweight, one-dimensional player step to the plate, collect way too large a paycheck to do that, and prolong his career at the expense of younger, more versatile players. I'm also not overly impressed with the batting averages of most of the guys who are only paid to hit.

As for your comment about 'taking away strategy,' that is not true at all. It changes strategy, but doesn't take it away. I agree about one thing, that I don't like seeing different rules between the AL and NL. The DH came about at a time when attendance was sagging and baseball was trying to emerge from the deadball era. It's truly pointless now. These guys are professionals, and supposedly the best few hundred baseball players in the world. A lot of pitchers had to hit during their whole careers and suddenly can't hit at all- pathetic.

[billiken_roy]

I don't understand how this is relevant. It's not Carp's bat we're going to miss. We'll still have a pitcher hitting 9th, regardless of who it is.

Regarding you're earlier comment that you have no interest watching pitchers hit and find it embarrassing, that's how I feel about watching an aging, overweight, one-dimensional player step to the plate, collect way too large a paycheck to do that, and prolong his career at the expense of younger, more versatile players. I'm also not overly impressed with the batting averages of most of the guys who are only paid to hit.

As for your comment about 'taking away strategy,' that is not true at all. It changes strategy, but doesn't take it away. I agree about one thing, that I don't like seeing different rules between the AL and NL. The DH came about at a time when attendance was sagging and baseball was trying to emerge from the deadball era. It's truly pointless now. These guys are professionals, and supposedly the best few hundred baseball players in the world. A lot of pitchers had to hit during their whole careers and suddenly can't hit at all- pathetic.

it is relavent because carpenter is forced to bat when he is clueless at the plate. and then due to the stupid rules, gets the dreaded rib cage pull from swinging if the national league wasnt the only league in the world to not use the dh, carpenter would never be in that situation to get hurt and be in position to miss about 6 starts if not more right now.

actually unless the "pticher" was the likes of ankiel, he was probably being dh'd for since 8th grade the majority of the time. remember, every league at every level has been using the dh for decades except the national league.

your view of the typical dh isnt necessarily true either. the days of henry aaron getting one more season is not necessarily the typical use of the dh. yes it might be the guy that isnt the best fielder but he is likely a guy that is still a dangerous hitter like jim thome or travis hafner. it could be a young guy that is up and coming like jason kubel that is just squeezed out of a position but still a pretty good bat.

the cardinals are a great example of a roster dying for a dh. being able to use all those outfielders in the lineup each day would be the exact medicine the team needs to go to another level imo. instead tony has to choose who amongst duncan, ludwick, ankiel and rasmus has to sit out each game so carpenter can bat? he has to make schmaker into a second basemen to get another of the outfielders into the game?

as to comparing averages, even the worst dh will likely out hit most of the best pitchers by at least 100 points. so maybe you didnt like the 240 average of the aging frank thomas last year (your picture of what you think a dh typically is). but i bet the oakland A's would rather have him hitting than any of their pitchers. and i bet tony would as well. and the truth of who the typical dh really is, probably is closer to a cardinal or a twins situation where they are trying to figure out how to get jason kubel in the game at the same time as their regular outfielders.

[kevinfootes]

footes, like i said in an above post, why is it that the national league is the only organized league/conference above 8 year old roster bat leagues that doesnt use the dh? your assertion is beyond ridiculous to even warrant a comment. if no other organization/level of baseball used the dh and i was making the dh proposal for the first time in the history of baseball your over the top statement would be humorous and on target. however it has been decades since that was the case.

maybe you could have a guy stand by home plate when molina is batting, then he could run when yadi hit the ball. Who wants to watch yadi run?

The DH has allowed aging players to hang on well past their prime, like Orlando Cepeda.

The DH is particulary stupid in little league play. The pitcher is typical one of the best players on the team.

[billiken_roy]

maybe you could have a guy stand by home plate when molina is batting, then he could run when yadi hit the ball. Who wants to watch yadi run?

The DH has allowed aging players to hang on well past their prime, like Orlando Cepeda.

The DH is particulary stupid in little league play. The pitcher is typical one of the best players on the team.

please read my reply to pistol above. it fits for your narrow thoughts as well.

again, why is it that every single league, organization, level of baseball EXCEPT the national league uses the dh? the national league is the only league that is right? yeah right.

[Postcard]

please read my reply to pistol above. it fits for your narrow thoughts as well.

again, why is it that every single league, organization, level of baseball EXCEPT the national league uses the dh? the national league is the only league that is right? yeah right.

Most every league uses aluminum bats. Are you advocating that? A lot of leagues play 7 innings instead of 9. Should MLB do that as well. Once a batter reaches base should we use designated runners?

[billiken_roy]

Most every league uses aluminum bats. Are you advocating that? A lot of leagues play 7 innings instead of 9. Should MLB do that as well. Once a batter reaches base should we use designated runners?

only because of safety issues i say no on aluminum bats in the major leagues at this time. i truly believe someone would get killed. but if they could prove and control that the bats would replicate a true wood bat performance then i would agree with it.

most high school and college leagues that use runners use them for time purposes for the catcher and pitchers which allows them to be ready to get the next inning going asap.

the major leagues have no reason to care about time constraints so no, i dont agree with pinch runners with no loss of eligibility for the rest of the game which i assume that is what you are talking about.

inning restrictions are about time constraints and limiting pitches for young arms and limited pitching staffs. so that makes no sense at the major league level where pitchers are physically capable of pitching more and they have much larger pitching staffs than the typical high school or college team.

basically not like arguments.

[Postcard]

only because of safety issues i say no on aluminum bats in the major leagues at this time. i truly believe someone would get killed. but if they could prove and control that the bats would replicate a true wood bat performance then i would agree with it.

most high school and college leagues that use runners use them for time purposes for the catcher and pitchers which allows them to be ready to get the next inning going asap.

the major leagues have no reason to care about time constraints so no, i dont agree with pinch runners with no loss of eligibility for the rest of the game which i assume that is what you are talking about.

inning restrictions are about time constraints and limiting pitches for young arms and limited pitching staffs. so that makes no sense at the major league level where pitchers are physically capable of pitching more and they have much larger pitching staffs than the typical high school or college team.

basically not like arguments.

Ah, see you're justifying all your arguments but failing to recognize the real reason the DH was started. We're in an era where 10-8 games are commonplace. There is no need to add a bat to jack up the scoring. So don't you think it's silly to continue with it? You're arguments that every other league have a DH are rubbish. Most major sports have rules at the big league level that differentiate them from their minor and little league counterparts. Pitchers are physically capable at hitting and should take their turn at bat just like every other position player does.

[billiken_roy]

Ah, see you're justifying all your arguments but failing to recognize the real reason the DH was started. We're in an era where 10-8 games are commonplace. There is no need to add a bat to jack up the scoring. So don't you think it's silly to continue with it? You're arguments that every other league have a DH are rubbish. Most major sports have rules at the big league level that differentiate them from their minor and little league counterparts. Pitchers are physically capable at hitting and should take their turn at bat just like every other position player does.

define physically capable? because performance says they arent capable in my book. they are pitchers, not hitters.

[Postcard]

define physically capable? because performance says they arent capable in my book. they are pitchers, not hitters.

They're professional athletes. They're grown men. To follow your logic, why not hit for a player that is great at defense but horrible at hitting. Why should a pitcher be treated differently than say a light hitting shortstop? There are lots of players that are excellent fielders but can't hit a lick.

[Pistol]

it is relavent because carpenter is forced to bat when he is clueless at the plate. and then due to the stupid rules, gets the dreaded rib cage pull from swinging if the national league wasnt the only league in the world to not use the dh, carpenter would never be in that situation to get hurt and be in position to miss about 6 starts if not more right now.

actually unless the "pticher" was the likes of ankiel, he was probably being dh'd for since 8th grade the majority of the time. remember, every league at every level has been using the dh for decades except the national league.

your view of the typical dh isnt necessarily true either. the days of henry aaron getting one more season is not necessarily the typical use of the dh. yes it might be the guy that isnt the best fielder but he is likely a guy that is still a dangerous hitter like jim thome or travis hafner. it could be a young guy that is up and coming like jason kubel that is just squeezed out of a position but still a pretty good bat.

the cardinals are a great example of a roster dying for a dh. being able to use all those outfielders in the lineup each day would be the exact medicine the team needs to go to another level imo. instead tony has to choose who amongst duncan, ludwick, ankiel and rasmus has to sit out each game so carpenter can bat? he has to make schmaker into a second basemen to get another of the outfielders into the game?

as to comparing averages, even the worst dh will likely out hit most of the best pitchers by at least 100 points. so maybe you didnt like the 240 average of the aging frank thomas last year (your picture of what you think a dh typically is). but i bet the oakland A's would rather have him hitting than any of their pitchers. and i bet tony would as well. and the truth of who the typical dh really is, probably is closer to a cardinal or a twins situation where they are trying to figure out how to get jason kubel in the game at the same time as their regular outfielders.

Remember playing the Red Sox in 2004, how bad Ortiz was in the field? How about the White Sox right now, with Thome and Konerko on their roster? Aubrey Huff can play 1B, 3B, OF, but the O's have him as the DH. Billy Butler took of the 1B mitt to hit full time. Pat Burrell switched leagues and was a capable outfielder for the Phils. Hafner has done nothing but become a worse hitter as a DH. Matsui gets to nurse his injuries while he hits full time. Former juicer Giambi is back with the A's as a DH, Thames is unspectacular at best for the Tigers, Rivera is one of the worst hitters on the Angels, Griffey is getting fatter and older as we speak in Seattle, and Blalock isn't what he used to be. I like Kubel and Lind and think their talent and youth is wasted at a one-dimensional position.

Roy, look at the stats. I just named every DH in the AL, and three of them are hitting over .300 (Kubel, Huff, Lind). 3 out of 14 guys who make millions, some tens of millions, to do nothing but hit are hitting .300 through the first week and a half of this year. And this isn't just chalked up to slow starts (though some of their numbers will normalize, both directions), as most are well under that mark for their careers and were last year. Most of them are on the downslides of their career, some are notoriously brittle, and others are just bad with a glove and get a free pass because of the league they're in.

Carpenter's injury is yet another reason pitchers should get in the cage and practice hitting every once in a while, not a reason they should be protected from ever hitting.

As a fan, as someone who spends money on Major League Baseball as entertainment, I ask- what does the DH do to improve the quality of what I'm watching on the field? Is it worth my time and money to watch 39-year-old Griffey reach the milestones he would have made years ago if he weren't so injury prone? Am I getting value in seeing David Ortiz's numbers decrease every year? Is it right for the White Sox to have two of the hardest-hitting first basemen in the league? Is it even worth bothering to clap when Thames or Rivera come up to bat? Is it enjoyable to watch Hafner or Blalock try (and fail) to salvage their reputations or Matsui play at 80%? Overall, I'd say the DH is not necessary, no longer relevant, and not worth it.

[DirtyRican]

They're professional athletes. They're grown men. To follow your logic, why not hit for a player that is great at defense but horrible at hitting. Why should a pitcher be treated differently than say a light hitting shortstop? There are lots of players that are excellent fielders but can't hit a lick.

Then does the same theory hold true for quaterbacks? Should they play linebacker as well?

[kevinfootes]

please read my reply to pistol above. it fits for your narrow thoughts as well.

again, why is it that every single league, organization, level of baseball EXCEPT the national league uses the dh? the national league is the only league that is right? yeah right.

You're saying EVERY baseball league besides the NL uses the DH? That's just not true, roy.

I like your way of thinking, though. In basketball, you could change lineups every time the defense gets the ball. 5 offensive players and 5 defensive players for each side! Who wants to watch basketball players play both offese and defense anyway? That's boring!

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