FLEET WOLF Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 DIVISION 1 CONFERENCE RANKING based on win-loss percentage for all non-conference games played in the last 3 years. I realize that there should be a handicapping to lower the ratings of the top 9 conferences who have a lopsided advantage because they play such a higher percentage of home games than the other conferences. However these are just based on the straight numbers for the 31 conferences. 01 SEC 02 Big 12 03 ACC 04 Big E 05 Pac 10 06 Big 10 07 Mountain West 08 WAC 09 Conf. USA 10 Horizon (Midwestern) 11 Atlantic 10 12 Sun Belt 13 Southern 14 Ohio Valley 15 Big West 16 WCC 17 Colonial 18 MAC 19 MVC 20 Big Sky 21 Metro Atlantic 22 Atlantic Sun (TransAmerican) 23 Ivy 24 Patriot 25 Mid-Continental 26 Atlantic East 27 Southland 28 Big South 29 Northeastern 30 MEAC 31 SWAC With the conference re-alignments going on, look for the WAC conference to have a power change with the loss of 3 teams, and possibly Conference USA, which is losing 4 of its top teams. The Horizon conference has had a better non-conference win-loss record, for every one of the last 3 years, than the Atlantic 10, the MAC, and the Missouri Valley conferences. In fact, both the MAC and the Missouri Valley each have a losing record for the 3 year period, and are ranked in the bottom half on Division 1 conferences. It is becoming a stretch to rank them as high as Mid-Majors. The Atlantic 10 finished 12th in 2002-3, 15th in 2001-2, and 12th in 2000-1. The Horizon finished at 11th in 2002-3, 11th in 2001-2, and 9th in 2000-1. Jesuit schools Detroit and Loyola are in the Horizon League. It is not a football league. Any thoughts or comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 i would think that using the cumlative non-conference won loss records wont be very fair once you get by the big boys simply because the rest of the conferences will all have bottom feeders that will participate in "buy games" that will skew the records with those guaranteed losses. go find us some cumlative rpi rankings instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 but the simple answer is the the Horizon is playing MUCH easier non-conference teams then the Atlantic 10. If that wasn't the case the A-10 and Horizon would have similar RPIs which is not the case. A-10 teams play other major conferences in home and homes. The Horizon does not. This case is closed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLEET WOLF Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 Roy and Kshoe, If you look at the non-conference schedules I think you will find that the Horizon teams played as tough or a tougher non-conference schedule than the Atlantic 10. Take a look at the comparative schedules. You will notice the the RPIs are skewed in favor of the football conferences who have the lopsided home schedules. Their strength of schedule is not held up by their non-conference neutral court or road wins, but rather their conference play against their fellow conference teams that don’t play many non-conference games on the road. The old Georgetown schedules were a classic example of this when they would line up a host of home patsies on their non-conference schedule, but they would never lose and would have a high RPI strength of schedule, because of their Big East opponents in conference play. The RPI is bogus in that it gives little or no weight to the difference between home and road games. Compare the home records against home records and road records vs. road records and you will find the RPI falls apart. But it does serve the purpose of the football conferences that created and perserve it. Put things on a neutral court, and you saw no Atlantic 10 teams in the Sweet 16 with the Horizon League’s private school, Butler, last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 There are Cinderella teams every year in the Big Dance, but you'll get no argument from me that RPI isn't a perfect measuring stick. However, it is a major influence on selection Sunday, and does favor the power conferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 whether we like it or not, the rpi is the governing body of the holy grail, the ncca tourney. nothing else really seems to matter. no one is going to argue the strength and class of the horizon member, butler. they are without a doubt a nice program. if the rest of the horizon was at the level of butler, i wouldnt mind being in that conference. but the fact remains, the horizon has some real anchors at the bottom as well. here is last year's horizon members rpi ratings: 28 butler 46 wisc milwaukee 73 illinois chicago 114 detroit 158 loyola chicago 237 wisc green bay 238 wright state 268 cleveland state 280 youngstown state now if you want to stack that againt the a-10 go to http://teamrankings.com/ncb/8confratings.php3 you will see that from top to bottom there really isnt a comparison. as to your strength of schedule assertion, go to http://teamrankings.com/ncb/9confratings.php3 you will see that the horizon overall played the 14th ranked strength of schedule last year. the a-10 was the 9th. only butler was in the top 101 schedules overall and that was just barely. the a-10 had 7 schedules in the top 101. do your research next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I'm not going to go find any links to prove this but rather I'll simply use logic to prove that you are wrong. You have already shown that the Horizon had a better winning percentage then the A-10. But we all know the A-10 had a higher RPI then the Horizon. Therefore, it stands to reason that the A-10 MUST of played stronger teams because we all know the major components in the RPI are your winning percentage and the strength of your schedule. For a conference in general, it is nearly impossible to move the RPI once you start the conference season. That is because for every winner there must also be a loser and while one team may go up another will have to go down. Its kind of like a team playing itself. Thus, a conference's strong RPI has virtually nothing to do with its games among eachother. You may have a point about A-10 teams scheduling home and homes with the top 6 conferences and how that helps the RPI. The Horizon league cannot schedule such games. Which is EXACTLY why we prefer the A-10 over the Horizon. You have made our point. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 While it appears that winning percentage out of conference puts the Horizon in a more favorable light than the A-10, even ignoring RPI SOS considerations, there are other criteria that make the A-10 much more preferable than the Horizon. Some of those criteria are at-large tournament bids, tournament seeds, national television appearances, home games against elite programs, and whether or not the preseason publications cover the conference in one page (or less). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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