Old guy

The only real and true fact coming out as of now is that 3 of the players are represented by a lawyer, and the other one by a different lawyer. They are both making statements, as expected, about the innocence of their clients and about how shocked they would be if their clients are charged with anything. I also assume the girls have attorneys by now, likely provided by their own families, even though we do not know who these attorneys may be, their statements are probably going to be the opposite of the players attorneys. Par for the course so far. At least the issue of representation is taken care of. These are just the preliminaries for the whole thing, I think it is safe to assume nothing has been solved so far. The players have not been set free with a no charges are necessary determination, not yet anyways. It is important, for the safety from civil legal action, that the girls be provided with equally adequate legal representation if they do not have it already, and this includes the un named one that did not go to the hospital. Brianstl the lawyers will not go to war with the University if the University was the one that retained them. If they retained their attorneys on their own then the attorneys will be free to go after the University. The more complex the mess gets the lower the likelihood of a happy ending.

Sulfan and NH, it is a lot better to add no or little value to the discussion than to add negative value as the trolls do. Please continue writing your views.

If they have any brains at all they have already recognized the immense amount of liability they might have to deal with if they screw up with their information releases. They have to deal with this issue very carefully and this means they will take their time doing it.

For those of you that cannot read correctly. Ford or his staff are not in any trouble unless they defy the University in the matter regarding certain players being allowed to play or practice.

I know Ford may be interested in the Louisville job now that it is available, and this availability may make him feel more entitled to follow his own way. But recommending that he takes any action without getting the approval of the administration first will be the best way to insure the total destruction of the program which will happen if Ford and his assistants are fired together with a pile of the players. This is an issue the University cannot afford to let slide. And by the way the reputations and careers of the players involved were placed in jeopardy by their own actions, not by the University or the coach. They were signed in to play basketball not produce porno. If they start practice with the rest of the team it will be with the approval of the University, not otherwise. The University has to consider the potential liabilities it will incur if the players are allowed to practice and play.

Sulfan, I do not think the Judicial or the University will be able to reach a decision as to how this case will be handled in time to give the players the options that were presented to Kwamin and Willie, not for this season anyways.

This thread has taken a very wrong turn propelled by raw speculation. This is totally and completely ridiculous, this board is conducting its own Kangaroo trial about what happened. The problem is basically that no one in this board is qualified to judge this case as far as the judicial system or the University system go. This is in so many words raw opinion passing as fact. The net effect of what is being done is adding complexity to the case by leaps and bounds, insuring a lengthier evaluation and decision process. And making the possible outcomes worse and more encompassing. So, OK let's say that there was a tape, and let's say the girls stick with their claim (they cannot back out at this time after getting the police involved), so now what, all that has been done is to make the case a lot more complex. Now, it is not only the players that are in trouble of disciplining or conviction of something or the other, the girls get to the firing line as well. Very nicely done, stupidity begets stupidity as is usually the case. So, the lawyers get into the scene interpreting the evidence gathered in ways that will benefit their clients the most and help their case the most. Let's add some obvious potential complications, let's say views of this tape may be had for pay via the net. Who put it there, who is making money out of it, how are the students or the girls involved in this? Now the problem becomes bigger for both the Judicial and the University. There are new charges that can be added to it, new legal issues arise. To make things worse, let's just pretend that one of the girls is not 18 years old yet, as may well be the case (I am sure nobody carded the girls other than the bar which may be in a world of trouble if one of them happens to have used a funny ID). OOOOHH, the case just got bigger and more complicated. The number of charges that can be used just grew even more. The bigger this case gets the absolutely less likelihood there is for a happy outcome for all involved. All involved can mean a lot of people other than the 4 players and 3 girls initially involved in this mess. This is true for both the judicial side and for the University side. And no the University side is not, like some idiot called it, a Kangaroo court. The University side is not a court of law at all: it is a process used to enforce University rules, rules that apply only to the University and not to everyone in this Country or State. And just look at the post by Aquinas just above: would University rules allow for distribution of porno in campus? Any University official would blanch reading this. This type of idea cannot be allowed to grow, if the University is to keep its reputation. Are you planning to be a producer or distributor Aquinas? Do you have the connections to sell the porno in the net? Then there is GloryDays, forever seeking attention, saying he expects the FBI come knocking at his door to find out what he knows. PLEASE, there is no indication anywhere that this event involves any kind of wrong doing that has to do with interstate commerce (unless the tape is being shown for pay in the net as it may well be), organized crime, espionage, or any kind of Federal offense. GloryDays will seat on his behind for a long time waiting for the notoriety of being interviewed by the FBI. And if it happens that the FBI interviews him for posting something or the other, he will promptly find out this is a form of notoriety he does not want to have. The more complex the issue gets the, the worse the threat upon the University's status and reputation becomes, the greater the financial threat, and less number of options to deal with this issue will be available to the University to handle this event with all its ramifications. There is a reason for the requirement of silence and the privacy of an investigation into an act of possible wrong doing. When you get a bunch of people giving their invalid opinions into this type of process, they are not helping the girls, or the players. Likewise they are not helping the Judicial, or the University to do their job. And most certainly, the added complications being piled up on this case is going to make it very difficult to show any clemency to those involved. What all of these complications are really doing is limiting the range of possible outcomes to simple expulsion from the University, that is assuming the DA decides not to proceed to trial for either the girls, or the players or both parties in a criminal court and involving any number of charges that now may not be limited to simple rape, but may involve any number of other angles. There is also an increased chance for civil action claiming damages against the University that a good lawyer may figure out. The University cannot afford this type of event, the best way to deal with all of this is to expel every one involved in this event and at least some of the people involved in the distribution of this tape. None of this is good for any of the parties involved in this mess. And no, there is no likely solution forthcoming in the immediate future. The exponential growth of this event's complexity and apparent widespread involvement makes it so.

A couple of trolls signed in to stir the pot.

All I can say is that there may be so much disarray within the NCAAB that they may just stop this year's competition, until order is restored

For those of you who cannot wait to know. The season starts in November, if the University decides they are not going to allow players involved in this incident to play they you will know who was involved by checking out who is not playing. The season start will come much sooner than any decisions from the Judicial or the University as to the fate of the involved players.

Agree RUBillsFan, has it been announced that the players involved in this event will not be allowed to play when the season starts?, or will they be allowed to play until the legal / judiciary wheels and the University grind their way towards a decision? Anyone knows if there has been any such announcement?

F**KED is a term that covers a lot of ground, WestCoastBilliken. Maybe we will get something that is milder than what many expect, no one knows until it is announced. Don't start making dire predictions, it is too early to do so. Goodwin, if involved in the event, or no one else involved in the event can be allowed to transfer or go elsewhere until the DA decides they are not going to prosecute this case. I doubt the DA will clear a transfer when they are still deciding whether or not to prosecute.Then the University disciplinary action will be announced, and that, I think, will be the point when the University may decide to allow some of the players involved in this incident to transfer, or not to allow their transfer. I really have no idea what will happen.

Bobby the University is not a court of law, its rules are a lot more strict than the laws are. The he said she said may be important issues in a court of law, not so in terms of the University rules. I see no way in which this event could be handled behind closed doors at this time, therefore the University is bound to apply its own rules. I see no way this thing will have a happy ending for the players or for the basketball program.

Particularly if there is criminal action coming out of this incident, I would think the transfer option would not be available to anyone involved in this mess. After all, this is a case that will attract public attention (which is currently deflected to some extent by the sports bribery scandal going on). If there is no criminal action coming out of this event, the facts of the matter will still be available to the public, and to school administrators. I do not think the likelihood of transferring right away and starting anew would be viable in this case either. As far as the NBA goes, I have no idea what kind of selection process they use but assume that the facts of the case would also be available to the selection boards. For the players involved in this event, this is a possible career killing disaster. Maybe they can go play in Poland or somewhere far away, other than that they may literally have screwed their way out of a possibly good career. Talking about stupid behavior! I mean, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the two girls went to the hospital for a rape work up, police is not called in for routine cases, it is called in as part of the protocol for rape work ups, as is counselling, etc... The fact that they went to the hospital and the police was called insures there will be abundant evidence to review while making a decision to either prosecute them or not. And by the way, really do hope, particularly if they got enthusiastic while doing the deed, no one had the terrible idea of making a video of the whole process. It would be really bad for them if a video was done. Sulfan the PD does not press criminal charges, I believe that is the business of the prosecutor called upon to review the case.

Congratulations Quality is Job 1, you are going through the process of living through disappointments and broken dreams that forms a significant part of what getting old is all about. I have a little understood secret for you: Everybody suffers the same kind of curse, the actual events are or may be different from one person to the other but everybody goes through this process. One way to cheer up about this is to call it "wisdom" and pretend to become "sadder but wiser now."

I may be naive in this regard but I have never heard of hookers going to the police because they are pissed off with their Johns. As I mentioned before, sexual assault as defined by law and defined by University rules may be two different things.

Moytoy, we know that two of the women were seen at a local hospital who called the police in. We must assume they went there for a rape check and the police were called because calling them is part of the protocol of dealing with a rape check. However, there is more done in these cases, a physical exam is done noting any king of roughness or abuse done and fluids are checked for semen, etc... By the time the rape check is done there is already testimonial evidence in the police files which is soon followed by lab test results and physical exam findings. Put it this way, there will be evidence that sex took place and of any kind of blows or violent action these women were or were not subject to. The women are most likely not going to go to a hospital for a rape check if nothing happened, there will be evidence substantiating whatever happened at the time. This evidence will not be available to us but it will be available to the police. You also have to consider that the rules of law dealing with cases like these may be different than the rules issued by the university for the conduct of their students. Someone mentioned that SLU has rules requiring some kind of adverse action in cases involving sex when there is alcohol or (I would assume) drugs involved. These two sets of rules, University and Judicial, are different from one another. The University is required by its own rules to discipline students involved in certain actions, whether or not the case is severe enough to require a criminal trial. The fact that the participants in this event were black or white or rich or poor makes no difference, and should make no difference, when it comes to following the University's own rules. Rules have to be applied regardless of race, color, or status, otherwise the University cannot provide the type of environment Pestello alluded to in his statement. I do think that regardless of what the judicial and criminal aspects of this case may be and whether or not the DA decides to prosecute, as long as there is proof that the event took place the University has to take action as defined by its own rules. From the University's point of view it is most important that such events NOT take place at all. I would expect a re enactment of the prior incident's disciplinary actions in this case.

There are so many angles and quirks in a situation like this that they are a major problem regardless of how they are handled or who handles it. We all know that the legal system is full of quirks and technicalities, and that even if the players are found to be completely innocent in a court of law the University HAS to take some kind of action. The University has to act to prevent any further such events from happening. It is true that we on this board are working on nothing but rumors and vague text messages, it is also true that none of us really knows what happened. That does not alter the fact that this is a major problem for the University with or without criminal charges, and with or without formal trials in court. The University has to act one way or the other to put a lid on events like these. I really do not see how the involved players can come out of this without major disciplinary action (to call it something). In other words they are not going to be put into a room and made to write the sentence "I will be careful and respect "no" for an answer." 100 times on a blackboard. We can certainly expect a lot worse than that.

While the strategy being followed by SLU may be correctly described, the impact upon the team and the season will depend entirely on who was involved and what will happen to those that were involved.

Whichever way it goes, getting pissed or laughing, and depending on how many players are involved, we may indeed see Hines playing this season.

OK then we just have to wait and see how much pain we will have to take because of this incident.

That is not always the case, 05 the University may decide to squash the issue by suspending players well before it gets to court. No need to name names, I agree. But just tell me, did you see the tweet naming names or the text message doing the same, or is this just something you heard?

Box you simply cannot be that insecure, or can you? SLU has thousands of male students, why assume any one of these particular team were involved, are they the only ones that you think are capable of doing this? Zink what names were named? Do you recall? Final question is: Do the basketball players live in off campus apartments?

Checked again, this time at "slu basketball" and found the post by someone called Zaddy Schultz @ madeline_lou. All she said is what was posted before. Checked Zaddy Schultz's page and this is a high school woman with multiple posts about primarily her social life, there was nothing at her page regarding this issue. As far as I am concerned there are no names named or direct implication of the basketball team, that is unless someone can come up with a source describing the event and naming names. This is not the time to want to die, not yet anyways.

I checked the hashtag #SLU200 and it refers to the celebration of the 200th anniversary of SLU with a mass and celebrations, big event. Found nothing about the alleged gang rape. Where is the tweet? It is not in #SLU 200