Hardball

Romar got in trouble by trying to recruit against the big boys for recruits on the west coast. Not for recruiting big time talent locally. He was just biding his time and keeping his foot in the door on all his west coast contacts in the event he got a west coast job again. This situation is totally different because Brandeberg is local. Did Romar recruit David Lee? Yes, did he have a chance probably not but HE DID OFFER and recruit him. I am not saying Brandenberg is Lee but you have to offer to stay in the game. This philosophy is ridiculous to not recruit BrandenBerg. Who wants a coach that doesn't think he can get a big time local recruit? Thank God Spoon didn't feel this way regarding Larry. Does anyone think if Pearl,Crean,Altman,Weber,Lowery..(I could go on) had an opportunity to recruit a local player that their philosopy would be "I am not going to recruit them because we probably won't get them" Not one of them would take the safe road. Why would any of the SLU faithful want a coach that adheres to this philospy? As a matter of fact all these coaches have gone into hostile territory and gotten players. When was the last time Brad when into a hostile territory and got a good player? I can't think of one in four years. Is this the SLU savior everyone wants? Good coaches do go into hostile territory and get players BS never does. If your savior can't recruit in other cites and is going to rely on only local talent to get the job done then he has no choice but to offer Bradenberg.

Sounds to me your not tired of.500 ball yet. IF BS is such a nice human being put him on the fundraisng committee and hire a Basketball coach. This can probably be settled very quickly, Orange Julius would the Bradenberg kid consider an offer from SLU? Yes or no?

Here is why you have to recruit and offer Bradenberg a scholarship. If I were a recruiter going against SLU I would say something like the following: "Why would you want to go to SLU where the local good players don't even want to go." or "If SLU was such a program on the rise why wouldn't a BRANDENBERG (local high level talent) not even get an offer from them." or "If BS is such a good coach why would he not recruit a kid this good in is own backyard. Whats wrong with Brad? Or better yet whats wrong with the school that a kid would not even entertain an offer from them." "If BS thought you were such a great player why did it take him so long to offer? We have been with you from the beginning!!!" SEE MATT SHAW. All this negative recruiting is null and void with a simple SCHOLARSHIP OFFER. Guys this is really not that difficult.

Matt would be a great pick-up and a nice recovery from the LS fiasco. He is extremely smart player and appears to have put on some good weight which should help in the long run. And not that it is that important but he can shoot the ball. If BS is interested in that kind of thing. The only drawback I could see would be the scholarship offerirg may contradict his promise to DM.

BS made a mistake on Ahern, Shaw and Stemler. As far as Ahern being a semi-star at MSU he was first team All Conference and lead the MVC in scoring which landed four teams in the NCAA tournament. The way I see it is that BS has made a major recruiting mistake in three out of the four years he has been a head coach. Where would SLU be today if they would have landed the three missed recruits from above? Not that all of them would have been big-time stars at SLU but our team and depth would be 100% better. Shaw at the four would have looked a lot better than LM or VN the last two years. Sure would be nice to have a shooter of Ahern's caliber coming off the bench when we saw the zone defenses the last two years. And if we could have plugged Stemler into next years starting line-up I think the conversation would be not making the tournament but how far could we advance. I think there is a hitch with BS that no one seems to talk about. You are who you are and BS is a direct disciple of Dick Bennett. The connection between the two has been mentioned many times. Dick Bennett would not run an up-tempo, push the ball offense under any circumstances. He could not stomach the turnovers or the ill-timed shots that come along with this style of play. He essentially is a control tempo coach. Where did BS get his coaching style? That's right Dick Bennett. BS is essentially the same style coach as DB. BS is a control tempo coach. BS emotionally can't handle the turnovers and ill-time shots that come along with the up-tempo, push the ball style of play. Consequently why would he recruit a player like DP, who is perfect for this style of play, and then play a control tempo game. That's a problem and a failure in judgment on what your team needs. BS says SLU will run at the beginning of every year and then we end up playing games in the 30's, 40’s, and 50’s the whole second half of the year. It is this constant pressure of playing mistake free basketball (which is unrealistic) that turns good players into struggling players.

We aspire to be a Top 50 program but what Top 50 program would put up with such lack of planning.

Why waste a scholarship on a kid that could play for a Big East team. Let's save our schollies for the transfer that never arrives.

Roy I do know what I am talking about and I am not twisting the Shaw recruitment. BS told Shaw that the reason they were not offering was specifically "we need to see you play more" (you know the old seven evaluation period ploy. Sound familiar). NOT we can't offer you until KG makes up his mind. This is where I get back to giving KG the ultimatum "KG we want you but you have to decide withinin 48 hours" or we are going in another direction. The if KG doesn't commit you offer and get Shaw. By following this process we would be sitting here today with Matt Shaw for the last two years and the next two as well. As it stands we have neither KG or Matt Shaw. Doesn't matter how you want to wash it BS made a major mistake here. In a way BS was even more reckless in his recruitment of Stemler. At least with the Grimes ordeal he had a backup in Matt Shaw. BS is currently claiming he had no second option after Stemler's decision. Question to BS...IF YOU HAVE NO SECOND OPTION WHY NOT OFFER THE ONLY OPTION YOU HAVE?

I know that he didn't get another shooter!!!! Therefore whatever he was doing he was doing it wrong.

Cheeseman, I agree 100% with your statement. How come Lance was not given an ultimatum? Surely BS can remember the Shaw bunggling by following the exact same process. Learn by your mistakes and make adjustments. A friend of mine lives in KC and he said Self identifies two players he really wants and offers both players. Then he says who ever takes the offer first gets the scholarship. Why can't BS do the same? And if you do not get a committment from either player move on and identify two more players who are acceptable. My gosh this is really not that hard.

If you are going to judge BS for his recruits only after you see them play what do you think of his choices DP,LM,Husak,DB,VN,JJ? As far as competing against the B10 and B12 as being the reason we lost LS I would say you can't have it both ways. You can't praise BS for the wins and not credit him for the loses. We have the same lousy facilities, same conference and same off-site game venue when we landed TL and KL. If you beleive what some on this board has said KL could have gone to Illinois and TL to UNLV. However, BS was still able to get them. Same negatives but different results. You are right about one thing we are not going to get everyone we target but a JC All American in your backyard should have been yours for the taking (and he was). Improvement has been lacking for a lot of players. Another key ingredient to an effective coaching staff. In the last two years our staff has had little or no effect on DP,DB or LM. Please do not point to IV as a developement success because for the last two summers he has gone back to Greece to play. If players can't make the improvement with our staffs expert advice then the staff chose the wrong recruit.

If BS would have offered LS early we could have made Indiana a non factor. Early offers is how Gonzaga recruits not taking seven evaluation periods. Someone has to be held accountable for not offering early, WHO? This same scenerio played out on the Shaw recruit from SIU. Same situation BS needed more time to evaluate but this time we lost to SIU not Indiana. Do you feel we should loose to SIU as well?

The LS fiasco causes me to wonder.... Does BS have a difficult time making recruiting decisions? Can he recognize talent? Why would you offer DM before LS? Why does a "good" D1 coach need seven evaluation periods to make a decision on a Juco All-American player that fills one of two critical pieces your team is missing? Why does SLU under this staff never have any second options? Why didn't we give LS an ultimatum and if he wouldn't commit then find a second option three months ago? What is the value of holding onto scholarships and never using them? The answers to these questions need to be answered by this coaching staff. No one would hire this staff today based upon the SAME rookie mistakes they have made over the last several years. To be clear, staffs are entitled to make mistakes but the SAME mistakes should not be tolerated.

Do we have resort to name calling. If so we are no better than they are. If we can't win on the merits that SLU has to offer than so be it. I for one do not need to rap Sampson in order for SLU to look favorable. I am for the kid doing what he wants to do. D1 basketball is hard enough that you can't afford to look back and say I wished I listened to my heart instead of others.

"get serious. crean is a salesman through and through. there is no doubt about that. brad is not as flamboyant, but i believe him and he wont tell a kid what he wants to hear just to get him to come and fill a spot." Roy you don't know the first thing about college basketball recruiting. All coaches bend the truth of a conversation to benefit their school. What do you think BS told JJ and Darren Clarke? "Come to SLU and I will bury you on the bench. Then every 3 or 4 games I will put you in and when you make a mistake I will take you out" or do you think he would say "if you work hard I will give you every opportunity to play major minutes for us". Who is the snake oil salesman now? If you think BS is above approach in this category you are really clueless.

VTIME I am not sure it matters where Roy posts since he is not very objective.

Sheltiedave this is the exact situation I am reffering to. Don't you think that Indiana, Kentucky and Florida will have a new player every year that could take Lance's job like MS. This why I can't see any reason why we should not get Lance especially after his history. If Lance wants to play minutes for the next two years SLU will not be the best program but should be his safest option. Do you want to play and maybe make the tournament or go to the tournament and have to fight for playing time?

This is my exact point. BS has to beat out these types of schools for a player of LS caliber. I don't expect BS to beat these type of schools for a Top 50 recruit but certainly for LS a local kid. All on this board has given the best arguments of playing time, close to home for family to watch home games, opportunity to play and be part of an NCAA Tournament team in your local town, first class education, great cities to travel to and play in...... Seriously I really do not know how BS looses LS especially since he received the short end of the stick at Bradley. What is sad is ther appears to be no legitimate second option to speak of.

Expectations. I hope we are not satisfied with the NIT in year 5. Doesn't everyone expect the NCAA Tournament this year. A couple years ago Bruce Pearl won the National Championship at S. Indiana. If we would have hired him at that time would we be struggling to make the NIT in year 5?

You choose to wait six years I do not. I want Top Recruits you want seven observation periods, you want double digit loss seasons I want single digit loss seasons, and I want early commitments, your fine with only one commitment in late April. We definitely have very different expectations for the Billikens. It is this attitude that lowers the expectations of our coach and causes some people to look at SLU as a step below other Major programs. I expect and want more for the money I spend on season tickets. I suspect your wait will be longer than six years. You see BS has been a Head Coach of a College Basketball team for 12 seasons. In eight of those twelve he has had double digit loss seasons. In addition, he has never won a league championship anywhere. I have included below BS final conference standings for his career. 1988-89 Loras College 17-7 11-5 (3rd) 1989-90 Loras College 14-11 11-5 (2nd) 1990-91 Loras College 17-8 11-5 (T3rd) 1991-92 Loras College 16-10 10-6 (3rd) 1992-93 Loras College 15-9 10-6 (3rd) 1993-94 South Dakota State 19-8 11-7 (3rd) 1994-95 South Dakota State 17-10 10-8 (6th) 2000-01 Wisconsin 16-10 9-7 (5th) 2002-03 Saint Louis 16-14 9-7 (4th) 2003-04 Saint Louis 19-13 9-7 (T6th) 2004-05 Saint Louis 9-21 6-10 (10th) 2005-06 Saint Louis 16-13 10-6 (3rd) Maybe the thirtieth season will be the charm. I hope so. Bartender give guest another one on me!

We COULD be headed in the right direction...not exactly a ringing endorsement. If you are calling for another two years to make a final determination on BS that is a 6 YEAR PLAN. Who gets 6 YEARS? BS has had double digit losses in every year since he has been here and one 20 lose season. He has averaged 15.25 losses per year. And this is your guy we should wait on for 2 more years? As far as the schedule I really don't care who we play but I do want to play in the NCAA Tournament. I guess you have forgotten the awful non conference the last couple of years. Have you forgotten Savannah State, North Carolina A & T, SEMO, Grambling State, University Tennessee-Martin? The problem with your Les and Altman comparisons are they were getting top recruits from years two on and their supporters were not asked to wait six years to be successful. As a matter of fact, I have a work colleague that told me Les could have been fired this year if he had another year like the previous three. I wonder if either of them were using their seven observation periods on a Juco All American to decide on a player’s value to the program in year four. They apparently figured it out way before BS has. Les secured Somerville and O'Bryant. Yes, I know MS was from Peoria but Alford got him the first time around, could BS have done the same? How come BS did not get O'Bryant or an O'Bryant clone? Oh he did ...Husak! Another miscalculation. Altman uses the red-shirt effectively something I have called for that BS does not do. There are way too many differences between BS and DA and JL. Too many to list. You know you must be on to something when people resort to vulgar language instead of making their point. Guest drink up have a double on me.

You can not give credit to BS for Ian and Reggie and not hold him accountable for DP and JJ. If you merely take the good with the bad BS has been average at best as our record would indicate (60-61). I agree with some that Brad has to recruit and consistantly get a Top 100-150 recruits every year. If he can not do this we have the wrong guy and it is time to move on. The great game coach rhetoric is overated based on the Austin Paey, two St. joe loses and the game at Richmond. I could go on but I won't. The Kool-Aid drinkers can rationalize it any way they want but ultimately SLU will not get to where SLU wants to go w/o a coach who can deliver the top players on a consistant basis. Without knowing anything else when SLU named their coach, how many of us would have been happy with a .500 record after four seasons? Or four double digit loss seasons? Or no Top 150 recruits in four years? Still feel like we are going in the right direction?

Polk has been a disappointment because of the fact we do not consistantly push the ball therefore you take away all his effectiveness. If we were not going to run why recruit and offer Polk? Meyer is not a four and I am not sure he is a three either. As a matter of fact I think he is one player that really doesn't have a position. He isn't quick enough to guard the two and is too small to guard the four. The three seems the natural fit but he seems to struggle with his shot from the perimeter. So were do we play him. he does work his tail off and that is a good attribute. Johnson has never lived upto expections. he has been the same player for three years now. What did BS see inhim from the beginning? Whatever it was BS has faled to change his behavior and that inability rests squarely on BS shoulders. Newbourne never got in shape in the two years he was here yet we still had to play him some key minutes the last two seasons. Again what did BS see in him that we never saw for two years of watching him play. Clark was a disaster that defies any explanation. IO was a good recruit but BS never left him alone to play his game until his last season. Alot of miscalculations for a short period of time. There seems to be a theme in our recruiting that needs some attention. Hopefully the new assisstant coach will help.

Blue no I can't just forget the LS thing. That is why we are sitting here on April 18, 2006 with one committment. I believe it is a major fault in our recruiting process that hopefully is fixed with our new assistant coach. We lost Shaw from SIU telling him we need to see you more before we offer. I know the comeback response has always been "we were waiting on Grimes". Let me clue you in on something Shaw is,was better than Grimes from the get go. How many other players have we lost for saying the exact same thing? No one knows because BS plays it so close to the vest. I understand that coaches use this statement as a delay tactic but there should not have been a delay tactic used on Shaw or LS. Do you ever wonder why other schools are getting early commitments while we wait and wait and wait...... Can SLU get a named recruit to commit early... just ONCE. Please do not come back with TL and KL. BS has been here for 5 years and four years as a head coach and we have had only three quality recruits. Is getting a TOP 150 recruit every year really to much to ask if we all want SLU to be a Top 50 program?

tseugnekillib, you're right there will be Talent left over. The real question is will we need our seven observation periods to recognize it?