good Ahern article on CBS Sportsline

[slufanskip]

You must be kidding. Did you read the article? It is clearly about free throw shooting only. The title refers to ft shooting so does the opening sentence.

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[Cursor100]

"had that statment read "calls him a better free throw shooter than jj redick" i contend no one would have responded to the post. but the way you wrote it, i clicked on the link thinking some springfield reporter or someone else was trying to justify that blake was a better player than reddick."------------Billiken Roy 10 -25 - 05

Ohhhhh, Roy your back stepping again! Just out of curiosity when you did read the "whole" article and you finally "comprehended" what it was saying...even though the very first sentence in that article read..."The best free-throw shooter in college basketball history is an active player, and you have no idea who he is. You think you do, but you're wrong. It's OK. Blake Ahearn appreciates J.J. Redick, too."...and which clearly states the "main" subject of the article to anyone possessing good comprehension skills.... what was your reaction when you found out it wasn't just some little Springfield paper sport's reporter talking up a kid who goes to their hometown college...but instead...a NATIONAL COVERAGE piece? I mean your reaction when you finally digested everything the article was saying.

Billiken Roy, I think your problem, other than your "sarcasm and comparison statements" and your constant quest for a freebee from Billphan and Triangle is that you take every little thing mentioned about Ahearn on this board as a personal attack on SLU for not recruiting the kid. Therefore, I have to agree with other posters that your attacks on Ahearn are personal. Why? I don't know? Only Billiken Roy knows for sure. Regardless, I really don't see how you cannot admit..."comprehend" perhaps a better word... that this is quite a feather under our "local" kid's cap. Instead you are too busy defending SLU's reasons for not recruiting him. Get over it Roy, most of us have.

[billiken_roy]

my reaction was "i already know he is one of the best free throw shooters in the country. anyone that follows the national ncaa stats knows that."

i realized it only after opening the link. not before. and again that was my b!tch. that billiken law had lead us to believe that someone was saying he was better all around than reddick. i would have thought a hardcore basketball fan like law knew that ahearn was a top national free throw shooter. so his astonishment led me to believe otherwise.

and you are correct on one thing, i always defend hindsight criticism against the billikens. not just the ahearn b.s. earlier in this thread, hardball brought up jamal tatum and matt shaw. i commented on that too. so does that mean i have something personal againt tatum as well? it seems you are the paranoid one that is shifting facts not me.

p.s. as i pointed out above in another reply, it is interesting that you and hardball only have posted on ahearn strings. yet we have many billiken conversation to post on.

[Billiken Rich]

You forget that this thread was started by Marquette Law who's motives certainly do not involve admiration of a local kid. It was a shot at the Billiken program. Your comprehension is lacking or perhaps you are only ignorant of the past given your miniscule number of posts (at least in this incarnation.)

[NashvilleBilliken]

Ok, I think this one has been hashed into the ground. Roy doesn't think Ahearn would have played at SLU...you do. Roy doesn't give a crap about kids who don't go to SLU. You do. End of discussion. It seems there are 4-5 posters on here who get off on nitpicking every one of Roy's posts. I don't know why that is, other than you're just trying to annoy him. Do it on PM's, please. As Rich stated, Law's post had nothing to do with praise of a local kid, it was just a ****** bag comment trying to get a rise out of us. And he succeeded.

[Box and Won]

nm

[Hardball]

Roy,

Why do you keep bringing me into this. I have been a long time follower of SLU and this board but never really had a reason to post until you took a shot at a local (Missouri) kid. That's it PERIOD. I think your childish obsessive compulsive behavior is ridiculous and has no merit but that's your perogative. Just as it is you choice to bash the SLU SID department every chance you get or the PD.

I have not commented on many other subjects because I don't think most people on this board can be very objective. For anyone who says we could not have used Ahern over the last couple of years is not being objective. Yeh some can bash the kid (headcase), his father, then his family and finally his AAU Mentor but what good does that do.

I am not as convinced as most of you (nearly everyone)that we are going in the right direction. Yes I like TL,KL,DB and Ian but other than that I believe we have real roster problems. It concerns me that SLU cannot get a qualified four man the last three years. I sell plastics for a living but I can tell you this if you gave me three years starting today I could recruit a four man better than any we have on the roster today. We have passed on many I believe could have helped us at SLU. But I am not sure anyone wants to hear that. Roy claims he would not make the Oppland 2-1 deal. I say I would take that deal all day long. I would have taken Shaw before Grimes but we didn't do that either. I happen to like what LaSalle is doing. There is a great article on CBS Sportline on how they will be decent this year but really really good next year. Their coach has a philosophy on how to put a team toghether while I am not sure ours does. I am not sure anyone wants to talk about that either.

It bothers me that people on the board say AD should not get any minites but I don't think people want to talk about that either. Unca has stated that AD has man handled KL in some practice sessions he has observed but some still say play KL. How do you do that? Are we just going to hand the starting position over to him like we did Polk? I am prsonally getting tired of getting beat by SIU,SMS,Austin Peay,SEMO..... but I don't think people want to talk about that either. We have no philosophy but to recruit local players and I don't think anyone wants to talk about that either.

So now that I have taken the leap and registered I will post when a subject interests me. If thats ok with you Roy.

[Cursor100]

"it is interesting that you and hardball only have posted on ahearn strings...."

Interesting? How?

[Billiken Law]

um, sure, believe that if you want. Local kid who wanted to come here getting praise from Sportsline, while the kid we took instead is in El Paso. What's wrong with admitting a miss in recruiting? Happens all the time. It stings particularly considering it's a local kid and the way the alternative panned out. How many games did we lose in the last few minutes due to inability to hit shots or free throws the last 2 years? Could Ahern had changed our fortunes? Quite possibly, particularly with the type of offense Coach runs with the multiple screens to get shooters open.

How hard is it to admit we missed on one (and maybe more based on other posts in this thread). I watch UW-Milwaukee and see 2 local kids Crean missed the boat big-time on (Tigert and Tucker) as well as a couple others elsewhere and can admit it and it is frustrating. Why does the debate have to crumble into personal attacks on the kid and his family?

[NashvilleBilliken]

Hey, I have no problem admitting we lost a recruit. Did we lose out on Ahearn, i honestly have no idea. I've seen the kid play twice on TV. His stats look decent. Maybe he could have helped, but we'll never know. You put Ahearn vs. Clarke one on one, and I'll take clarke from what I've seen and heard. Soderberg hasn't played JJ, an athletic powerhouse, in two years. He rarely played Drew Diener. What's so great about Ahearn that he would have gotten all this time? Clarke never even got to prove himself on the court. One of the few times he did, he hit a game winning shot. The point can be debated for years, but we will NEVER know. As Roy said, your post led us to believe this article said Ahearn was better than Reddick. All it said was he's a better free throw shooter. Over the past two years, you've taken every opportunity possible to take a jab at our program and point out how superior programs in Wisconsin are (either directly or indirectly). For arguments sake, I'll trust you that this is the post where you finally changed your mind and decided to just give praise to a St. Louis recruit (whom I highly doubt you care about given your wisconsin heritage).

[Billiken Rich]

I'm sorry Marquette. I had you pegged wrong. All of your earlier posts about how wonderful St. Louis and St. Louis University are should have been an indicator that you were just posting to tell us about a St. Louis Kid making good. Bravo Marquette! Bravo! You're quite a guy!

[billiken_roy]

first, i think you have a lot of excellent points. some of which i have posted at least some variation of your thoughts over the last year as well. so i dont think we are as far off in our beliefs as you do.

hardball said,

"Why do you keep bringing me into this. only because a lot of the comments made against me in this string came from you and cursor (that were basketball related). no other reason. i like both of your well thought out points and would like to see you join in on all discussion topics. imo, the beauty of an internet message board is the more opinions expressed, the better the conversation. i wish everyone posted as much as i did and cant understand those that are fans that dont join in more."

hardball said,

"I have been a long time follower of SLU and this board but never really had a reason to post until you took a shot at a local (Missouri) kid. That's it PERIOD. I think your childish obsessive compulsive behavior is ridiculous and has no merit but that's your perogative. Just as it is you choice to bash the SLU SID department every chance you get or the PD."

i will let the analysis of my mental stability alone. as to the sid department and the post dispatch, if you think both are doing a great job, well that is your perogative.

hardball said,

"I have not commented on many other subjects because I don't think most people on this board can be very objective."

i asked billiphan this yesterday and he never answered, but i would be interested in what you or anyone else thinks an internet sports fan message board should be? i have always visioned it to be more or less akin to an old tavern or neighborhood bar where everyone is throwing their two cents in about anything or everything however particular interest is for the home team. objectivity imo may or may not have much to do with it. and it is always up to the listener/reader to sift through what they hear/read to determine the merit. if my words are considered slanted due to previous comments or stances, who wouldnt take that into effect. but it would be the same in any forum that someone would attend on a regular basis with the regular guests attending and opining.

hardball said,

"For anyone who says we could not have used Ahern over the last couple of years is not being objective."

i think if you go back and read my comments, i have always commented that imo, it doesnt matter if he could have been used. the question is, based on patterns of minutes and substitution patterns we have seen from coach soderberg, would he have played? i say no. i base that on a pretty consistent agreement on the total game of young mr ahearn. no doubt he is a good outside shooter. no doubt he is an excellent free throw shooter, but the rest of the report card isnt as good. and coach soderberg has shown some of those other basketball traits are more important to him.

hardball said,

"Yeh some can bash the kid (headcase), his father, then his family and finally his AAU Mentor but what good does that do."

i dont think i have ever commented on his father, his family or his aau mentor other than thanking them for comments.

hardball said,

"I am not as convinced as most of you (nearly everyone)that we are going in the right direction. Yes I like TL,KL,DB and Ian but other than that I believe we have real roster problems."

i think many of us have voiced concerns about the roster. i have been very outspoken about the lack of a known productive power forward. i have questioned maguire's signing. my gosh, i was almost arrested by the boardship last year for questioning how effective ian and bryce truly were. and i see a lot of others on the board question aspects about the billiken roster as well. i guess i have to ask myself (to borrow a triangle favorite phrase) is the arrow up or down? i think overall the arrow is up. more good is happening than bad. is it happening fast enough is the question. and that is a tough one to ask. most programs dont change overnite. at least not without cheating. and since slu tends to walk the straight and narrow straighter and narrower than most, that only makes it that much more of a tough job. add a few unexpected pot holes like your only credible inside player having 3 concussions and being permanently put out of the picture, or having your best shooter/scorer come to school with a foot problem that would have landed most players on the redshirt list for surgery but since he doesnt have a redshirt year to give make him gut it out at half speed effectiveness are roadblocks that few schools can overcome let alone one working on a tight talent string.

hardball said,

"It concerns me that SLU cannot get a qualified four man the last three years."

i asked the board numerous times last season, "how can the likes of programs like oakland, wisconsin-milwaukee, hawaii, oral roberts, all programs perceived to be programs that should be below slu, all have much better inside players than slu? how can they find that power forward and we cannot?" so that is not a concern that anyone else does not have imo.

hardball said, "I sell plastics for a living but I can tell you this if you gave me three years starting today I could recruit a four man better than any we have on the roster today."

that is a bold statement. i talked to coach romar one time for an extended period of time about recruiting. as we now have seen, romar before slu (ucla) and after (washington) has been nothing but a recruiting leader. what he pointed out is that every school and situation is different. and that makes the job of recruiting that much tougher. i personally consider myself a great people person and i think i have a little bit of an eye as well for talent. but i would never want to be a college basketball recruiter let alone one for slu! you may have more insight than i, but i think it might be one of the toughest jobs there is assuming you play by the rules.

hardball said,

"We have passed on many I believe could have helped us at SLU. But I am not sure anyone wants to hear that. Roy claims he would not make the Oppland 2-1 deal. I say I would take that deal all day long."

spoon tried to make the 2-1 one deal with the robertson boys and it didnt turn out the way he wanted it to. memphis made the two for one with wagner and barclay. after a year, calipari was stuck with the dad and a backup slow power forward. the blankston/wade deals are few and far between.

hardball said, "I would have taken Shaw before Grimes but we didn't do that either."

i was with you completely on shaw. i think chasing grimes was a huge mistake. the question is would that earlier interest in shaw have been enough to win him. but i totally agree on shaw and always did.

hardball said,

"I happen to like what LaSalle is doing. There is a great article on CBS Sportline on how they will be decent this year but really really good next year. Their coach has a philosophy on how to put a team toghether while I am not sure ours does. I am not sure anyone wants to talk about that either."

we asked coach soderberg about filling the roster with the remaining two scholarships. he said he wants a power forward that can step in and start immediately (considering johnson and obi will both be here next year i think that is bold thinking) he said he wants to develop another center project with the other.

we have also heard him say numerous times he wants to recruit locally first then fan out from there to get his talent. judging by his results the last couple of recruiting classes and the one already in progress he appears to be winning that battle.

we will likely start one senior and one junior this year. our best two players are freshmen. why wouldnt the "decent this year but really good next year" statement fit our profile as well? especially if either obi recovers or coach soderberg finds that power forward that is better than either obi or johnson will be next year?

hardball said,

"It bothers me that people on the board say AD should not get any minites but I don't think people want to talk about that either. Unca has stated that AD has man handled KL in some practice sessions he has observed but some still say play KL. How do you do that?"

what i have been told by others that have watched practice is that while drejaj has had good practices, overall lisch has had better. i have heard as well that lisch has more than held his own in drejaj's manhandling battles. now does that explain why people want to see lisch ahead of drejaj? i would think most people are "show me" types and god forbid that the person already has a strong image in his head that was from a previous eyewitness experience. i.e. we all saw drejaj have a bad year last year offensively. it is hard to change that perception. but if drejaj is better now than lisch, drejaj will play.

hardball said,

"Are we just going to hand the starting position over to him like we did Polk?"

the difference is who did polk have to beat out last year? drejaj and we already established drejaj had a bad year. lisch has to beat out credible alternatives for a wing spot imo. and nothing will be "handed to him".

hardball said,

"I am prsonally getting tired of getting beat by SIU,SMS,Austin Peay,SEMO..... but I don't think people want to talk about that either."

first, i dont think slu was getting beat by all of those type of teams on a regular basis until last year. even then, my gosh, we read posts weekly from taj basically saying he will believe it when he sees it and he hasnt been alone. again, i dont understand why others dont post their thoughts in that manner if that is what they believe. in fact it would only liven the board imo.

hardball said,

"We have no philosophy but to recruit local players and I don't think anyone wants to talk about that either."

first, the coaches cant win. romar tried to recruit nationally, and all we heard from detractors is why arent we recruiting locally. coach soderberg comments he wants to try to mine the locals first and now no one likes that? that said, newborne is not local. johnson is not local, ian is from greece, husek is from iowa, drejaj from new jersey, brown is from texas, etc. the point is, it appears to me that coach soderberg will go whereever he has to go to fill out the roster.

hardball said,

"So now that I have taken the leap and registered I will post when a subject interests me. If thats ok with you Roy."

it is more than ok by me. as i have said twice in two days now, i love your viewpoints and discussion thoughts. i wish you would post on all the threads as you obviously have as good of a grasp on the billikens and college basketball as anyone else that posts here.

[billiken_roy]

again the leap everyone has to make to make your argument work is that ahearn would have gotten to play. i contend that ahearn would have sat right next to clarke on the bench because of his other shortcomings.

think about the south florida game last year. clarke played because of injuries and fouls and was a freaking star in that game. what happened there after? one can question why didnt he play more after that, but you have to take into consideration that a team like south florida doesnt highlight clarke's other weaknesses. and thus, when it was back to the likes of louisville or marquette, obviously coach soderberg felt that the reliability of a drejaj or danny brown defensive effort was more valuable than what clarke might bring to the floor offensively.

[slufanskip]

Just because Clarke didn't work out ... doesn't mean we missed on Ahearn. I don't think UB wanted Ahearn for whatever reason. We can guess it was for his lack of D, or his attitude, or his family, who knows ... but obviously UB didn't think Ahearn would have played much for him ... Could he have been wrong? Maybe, but I do know this ... if Ahearn didn't leave it all on the floor defensively and everyday at practice ... he probably wouldn't have played anyway.

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[Cursor100]

Billiken Rich, I don't care who started the post and I certainly don't care why. If you think my comprehension is lacking than Billiken Roy must have ridden the short yellow bus to school. The article clearly states in the very first sentence what the "entire" article was about. That was the point of my post. I don't know why you are attacking me? Unless you were his bus partner.

Let's face it this Ahearn issue is going to be a thorn in our sides every time he does something noteworthy at least for the next two years. I guess we just have to hope he doesn't get anymore national coverage. Because if he does we will have more threads like this where people get very nasty and defensive. Like me!

[Billiken Rich]

Most people on this board are over it. We didn't want Blake. We still don't want Blake. If Blake wanted to transfer here today we'd likely decline politely. I don't wish the kid ill but we've had more than our share of very limited role players over the last decade.

Blake Ahern will never be a thorn in our side. Shaw very well may be. Some of the other area players who went to SIU may be as well. Nobody on the the board is losing any sleep over Blake.

Have a nice weekend. Give BA my regards.