ACE Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 You are the one that is so naive to have said that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Can you really be so stupid as to believe that? Can you really believe that Sadam's regime has no connections to other Muslim terrorists outside of Iraq? It is scary that people as uninformed as you and NYBILL are probably old enough to vote! Bauman, the above is what you said to me when I stated there was no link between Iraq and 9/11. Do you think the 9/11 Commission is "naive"? "stupid"? "uninformed"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 The 911 commission is a joke. A bunch of grandstanding political hacks of all stripes striving to justify their existance. I put more credence in the ability of organized crime to ferret out the truth than the 911 commission. Having said all that, the links between Al-queda and Iraq are there but pretty tenuous. I don't think Saddam provided anything other than perhaps a big thumbs up to the 911 hijackers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 If it is for bauman only then PM him or email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 etc.....it ain't perfect but it is the best we have. It is necessary. As in anything, one has to look back to learn from mistakes..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 None of these commissions quieted the critics. You don't put political hacks in charge of an investigation if you want to know the truth or fix a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Please advise us on anything basketball related you might know. How about your thesis on the developement of the college point guard. If you can think of anything at all related to basketball I'd love to talk about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Innocent people die in wars - it can't be helped, they die in the crossfire or by mistaken identity or what have you. That's why our administration should have made damn sure they have the goods on Iraq before declaring war. We didn't. We haven't found any WMD. Fifteen of the ninteen perpetrators were Saudi, not Iraqi. It's bad enough that innocent people have to die in wars, but for them to die or be tortured in prisons when no link between Iraq and 9/11 has even been proven, that's horrific. If anybody should have to die with our American soldiers, it should be Saudis not Iraqis. And even that would be overkill, because terrorists make up such a tiny percentage of a country's population. Would an African nation have been justified 30 years ago to declare war on the entire U.S. because of the terrorist actions of the Ku Klux Klan against their American brothers? No friggin' way - the Klan doesn't represent the U.S. anymore than Al Quaida represents the Saudis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alonzo P Hawk Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Basketbill: I like the fact that you said to "get this crap off the board" but then you wrote another message to get your political point across. that's what i can't stand about liberals...they'll take some cause like the 9/11 images in bush's campaign ads, then declare how horrible and wrong it was for him to use them because he's using the victims of a tragedy. that's not why they don't like bush's ads...they don't like bush's ads because they don't like bush and they are just trying to appeal to the ethos of dumb people. same thing, you didn't want anything written that you didn't agree with, but your true side came out when you argued anyway. ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alonzo P Hawk Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 appreciate your sentiments, buddy, but i guess you missed the news on sunday, december 14, 2003. we found a weapon of mass destruction that had been used in iraq. in fact, it killed 60,000 iraqis. it's name was saddam hussein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Funny I don't remember the Klan being that active in the 1970's. If you hate the president you'll disparage his motives for going into Iraq. If you don't you won't. Saddam is a bad guy and an easy one to take out. Taking him out has brought at least one other terrorist nation (Libya) to renounce its past and strive to rejoin the civilized world. It makes our intellegency agencies look bad that there weren't stockpiles of serin on every street corner but that doesn't mean the war shouldn't have been fought or was a failure. Innocents were dying in Iraq before we got there. Hopefully we'll leave them in better shape than they were. Go one hating the pres if you want. His intel was wrong but his heart and mind were in the right place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 You know nothing about me or my political opinions. The second post I left did not compliment or critique the 911 commission. If it is political to say we need to find out what happened I am sorry for the post. My political feeling about this board is that we should refrain from political topics as it takes away from the community of basketball fans that come here to discuss a topic for enjoyment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Bush would make an ok gaurd but has a questionable release on his shot, Cheney just can't run anymore and his AICD screws up the scoreboard video when it fires. Edwards may be a better 2 than a three. Rumsfeld would be a great condition coach, except for that incident when the redshirt freshman was hospitalized for exhaustion having been forced to hold 325 lbs above his head while standing on one foot at the foul line. But I really like the way Armitage fights underneath the basket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthington Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 I vote "No" on political discussions on this website. Of course, this is a free country and people can discuss whatever they damn well please, yet, I enjoy this discussion board b/c it's purpose is to encourage a family of like-minded individuals who LOVE BILLIKEN BASKETBALL. I would encourage others to share their beliefs on political websites...just one person's opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 >appreciate your sentiments, buddy, but i guess you missed >the news on sunday, december 14, 2003. we found a weapon of >mass destruction that had been used in iraq. in fact, it >killed 60,000 iraqis. it's name was saddam hussein. Politics and religion are divisive subjects so it is with trepidation that I type this response. Hitler was a mass murderer yet the world was content to sit by and watch until, that is, he attacked his neighbors (the world gave him a pass when he gobbled up Austria but drew the line at Poland). Some mass murderers were actually installed / supported by the United States: Shah of Iran, Samosa (Nicaragua), Marcos (Philippines), Battista (Cuba) and the list goes on. As we speak, repressive regimes that imprison, torture, and kill their citizens still exist on this earth--N. Korea, China, Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia (reasonable minds can differ on this list or the extent of repression that exists in each country). The US nor any other single country, to my knowledge, has ever mounted a major pre-emptive invasion of another country on the grounds that the regime of said country was mistreating its own citizens. The one modern case of group action was NATO's invasion of Kosovo which was a collective decision by the NATO countries (UN couldn't get a vote passed) to invade for purely humanitarian reasons. If one remembers correctly, the Clinton administration was roundly criticized for sendiing US troops into harms way in Kosovo to intervene in an internal matter to Serbia merely to save muslim Kosovo citizens (forgetting that genocide was taking place there). Saddam Hussein was a mass murderer from way back (time he seized power in 1970s) but that did not stop the US from making nice to him and providing weapons plus intelligence to him when he invaded Iraq in the 80s (we cheered him on! ... see below picture of Saddam Hussein shaking the hand of Donald Rumsfeld). He was also a mass murderer in 1991 when we kicked his rear end out of Kuwait, crossed into southern Iraq and then stopped our tanks (all but General Bernie McCaffrey who ignored orders for about 12 hours and shot up an entire Iraq armored brigade that otherwise would have escaped). Bush, Sr. allowed Saddam (who they knew to be a mass murderer even having used chemical weapons to gas Kurds) to stay in power to torture and kill to his heart's desire (he massacred thousands of Shias the moment we pulled our troops back). He packed up the troops and sent them home for a victory parade. In the case of Iraq War II, the case laid out to the American people (and to the world at the UN by Colin Powell) for pre-emptively invading Iraq had nothing to do with Saddam Hussein killing his own people. The case made was that the security of the US required immediate invasion due to the possession of WMD by Saddam Hussein. The administration asserted that the security interest of the US was so threatened that we were unable to wait for the weapons inspectors to continue their search within Iraq (which increasing indicated no WMD) and the shifting of US military resources from a current war in Afghanistan to Iraq (note: the security situation in Afghanistan has markedly deteriorated in the past 2 years). The invasion of Afghanistan was soundly premised upon US security concerns--i.e., the harboring of a vast terrorist network. The humanitarian reasons for invading Iraq are / were sound IMHO. But let us all acknowledge that the grounds upon which the war was sold to the public have turned out to be clearly false. I am willing to accept that the current president made an honest mistake in thinking Iraq possessed WMD. Hey but let’s stop kidding ourselves about whether a massive intelligence failure happened (it did!!!) and get busy fixing what’s broke. http://www.curandero.ch/alien_img/119_saddam_rumsfeld.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alonzo P Hawk Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 it's the offseason and it's election year...there's no way to avoid political discussion. it's everywhere you go. you go to school to learn, but you're still going to hear politics in an election year. you go to mass on sunday to praise the lord, you'll still hear about politics in an election year. you go to the store to buy groceries, but you're still going to hear about politics. you go to a baseball game, but you're still going to hear about kerry and bush. you go on the metro bus down lindell and after about two seconds, somebody brings up politics. it's unavoidable and it's fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 It's not necessary to hate anybody to question their decision-making. We question Brad's decision-making after every loss on the board, but we certainly don't hate the coach. Unfortunately, there's a lot more at stake when a poor decision is made at the federal level. I think it's sad that you chose to characterize me without even knowing me but it's not worth fighting over. That's my last post on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alonzo P Hawk Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 sorry for any wrongdoings. on a separate note, the olympic torch will be stopping at the busch student center on campus at 3:00 this afternoon...they're looking for a good showing to be on tv. i know i'll be there. the torch will rest at the bsc for 15 minutes then continue to head up ain't it grand avenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthington Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 I agree with your sentiment that politics is everywhere. That's my point. I come here to get away from it. Unlike Billiken basketball, we all know it can be torturous at times, when it's not fun. As I said before, it's a free country and what I want, someone else may want another. It's just a wish of mine that this board doesn't get to "politicized" as election time nears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 I don't even know you, and I've mischaracterized your feelings toward the president. What a bad guy I must be. Everybody cares about dead and dying civi's These were some civi's we could do something about and they also happen to have the great good (or mis) fortune to be sitting on a piece of this rock with something valuable underneath it. Oil is one of the reasons we are there. Not to steal it but to keep it flowing at market prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I can't really discuss this issue with you all but, I recommend reading the book "Germs" by Judith Miller and then make up your mind about nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and Iraq. She will probably have a new book coming out on the subject anytime now. Just a suggestion take it or leave it from just another billikens.com poster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 From Reuters: ASTANA, Kazakhstan (Reuters) - Russia warned the United States on several occasions that Iraq Saddam Hussein planned "terrorist attacks" on its soil, President Vladimir Putin said Friday. "After the events of September 11, 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services several times received such information and passed it on to their American colleagues," he told reporters. The Kremlin leader, who was speaking in the Kazakh capital, said Russian intelligence services had many times received information that Saddam's special forces were preparing terrorist attacks in the United States "and beyond its borders on American military and civilian targets." ***** You might also want to check out this morning's (June 18, 2004) Wall Street Journal Editorial on page A10 titled "Spinning 9/11" if you are truly interested in the al Qaeda-Iraq connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I cannot believe that people STILL think Iraq did not have WMD! They used them and tested them repeatedly for well over a decade yet NEVER produced any sound evidence that those weapons were destroyed. Yes, they did produce evidence of a few destroyed missles and showed inspectors defunct laboratories, but they never produced material evidence that their WMD program was in any way, shape or form dismantled. That is a well accepted fact. I guess if I walk onto the playground at the local school, shoot a few kids, and then, when the police arrive, tell them "don't worry, I got rid of the gun" that it would be okay for the police to say, "thanks, and have a nice day". C'mon. We do not live in utopia. We cannot trust people like Saddam. And yes, we will use ruthless dictators if it means protecting our interests. It may be very unpleasant, but that is an unfortunate reality of survival. We are friendly to the Saudis, yet they are a very repressive regime. And what about Israel? They don't exactly treat the Palestinians with kid gloves, yet they receive more of our foreign aid than just about any country. By the way, had we done a better job of supporting the Shah of Iran, Iran probably would not be in the position it is in now. I think what is happening in the world right now is terrible. But it is our reality. We are living through WWIII whether we like it or not. If we don't act very aggressively, it will only get worse, much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 None found, nada, after invasion in 2003 per testimony before Congress of the individual appointed by the current administration to search for WMD in Iraq, David Kay. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0123-12.htm http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/28/911.commission.kay.ap/ Did they have chemical weapons at one time? Yes, ask the Kurds, but none were found after 2003 invasion. No biological, no chemical, and the nuclear program had not been actively restarted (it was basically found to be in a shambles). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Judith Miller's reporting at the NY Times has been called into question for inaccuracies. I believe the NYT is investigating here internally. http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/ne...t_id=1000473915 http://slate.msn.com/id/2087735/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 You obviously completely missed my point. Nevermind. Back to basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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